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Hey this is tom, and this is getting out of hand. I'm not even talking about the fact that my grandpa blames himself for what happened with evergrand and not even talking about the fact that i had to explain to him that it's not that ship. That was stuck in the swiss canal, not even talking about the fact that he booked a ticket to china. Apparently now he's going to beijing to try and resolve things.

Good luck to him with that. All i'm seeing is these armageddon titles armageddon this armageddon that, like that all of this about nothing now i've been known to clickbait, i'm not a sing. Although i've been leaning off the clickbait train a little bit lately, but i don't mind: people click baiting, it's just. What really annoys me is a lot of these channels have no freaking clue what they're talking about making videos about evergreen for clicks and views and they're playing off people's fears.

Now you can't blame me for being a proponent of chinese stocks, so believe me, when i tell you that this is real fud and you know, coming for me carries a lot of weight. So let me explain the main question that i want to answer today and you'll get the answer in advance. Before my detailed analysis is. Is this the next lehman brothers event now lehman brothers? You can go google it in 2008, it's an investment bank, it fell under and pretty much almost to the entire used economy with it, and a lot of people are now basically parroting each other on the internet.

Basically saying well, this is the next legal brothers. It's about to collapse, the u.s economy, blah blah blah blah blah, which is complete nonsense, which is the bottom line of this video, and if that's the only thing you needed. No, this is not the next lehman brothers event, sayonara, whatever they say konichiwa, i don't know, but here's the thing i'm just kidding, but here's the real analysis here. So i want to give you three reasons which are undisputable of why this cannot ever be the lehman brothers level event, and the only thing i ask in return is that you don't click, nothing, don't smash, nothing don't buy nothing.

I have no courses, no discounts. No nothing. The only thing i need is your attention, that's it, and for that you can thank our channel members and our patrons. You know for basically saving me from this garbage not to beg for anything so check this out.

There's three reasons why this story - the evergreen story - has no similarities to the lehman brothers story. So, as you probably heard by now ever grant is a chinese company engaged in real estate development they're, massive and they've accumulated a lot of debt. Now the share price have been tumbling down for quite a while. In fact, this isn't really news.

We've been talking about this for a whole year. This stock went from way up here to went down here in the single year. In fact, they lost 90 of the share price in the single year. However, even though this is not actual news in the last five days, there's been a massive shift: the stock actually dipped 20 in the last five days at all.
Well, here's what happened this company? Actually sits on about seven percent of the entire chinese property sector debt. Seven percent of the entire chinese property debt is with evergrand. If you think seven percent is not high. This is freaking china model over.

It's a lot of money now they've accumulated over 300 billion of debt and have coupons coming up. I mean in the next few days, and people are basically trying to figure out if they're going to make the payments or they go to default, because this is going to have a massive impact on this company as well as suppliers, employees and other companies. Obviously - and these concerns are actually what caused the massive spiral down of the entire u.s market, with the exception of a few stocks shout out to lucid yes, but with the exception of a few stocks, the stock market went ballistic, and this is exactly the reason why. However, you can see right now that the market is slowly starting to recover from the panic attack it had a few days ago, and the reason being is that this whole narrative of the contagion lehman brothers event is a complete nonsense, and all i need is about Two minutes to prove to you why it is and here's where things stand right now, so the company actually announced that they will be making the upcoming payment.

I think it is today, but this is the payment that's denominated in local currency, so they have to deal with local banks. It's still not really clear if they're going to shaft or not shaft western and u.s banks with the other debt they have. But let's see, even if the chinese government and this company actually decide to completely shaft the u.s companies and the western companies that actually have money with them, this is still not a lehman brothers type of event. So the first thing you need to understand - and the first reason why it isn't is because they have completely different underlying assets.

Like i mean correlation, minus one lehman brothers were engaged in basically derivatives, financial derivatives, while this company is basically holds real estate. So here's the thing when you're dealing with mortgage-backed securities, which is exactly what limit brothers held. This is the sort of thing that spreads that cancer. This is basically every nook and cranny.

When you pull one thread, the whole piece of cloth actually falls apart, because derivatives tend to do it and it's not really structured. Like real essay, i mean once you pull the thread. Everything collapses. You've seen how the stock market reacts just two days ago, on the other hand, we have every grant that actually holds physical, real estate now, granted that the chinese market isn't deep, i mean the chinese real estate market, but it still has value and a significant amount Of value, that means one thing that this is a completely chinese story.
It has to do strictly with real estate in china. Obviously, employers are going to get hurt. Employees are going to get hurt other chinese companies suppliers, but there's nothing here, creating a correlation. The connection to any systemic failures in the west, obviously, there's lenders that lend the money and individually those lenders.

Those banks will feel the pain, and that is why this is a purely chinese thing, because it's real estate, it only hurts the people that are close to it, meaning the employees, the employers, subcontractors, other companies that did business with them, maybe even lenders, maybe even western Lenders that actually gave the money, but there's nothing here - systemic that completely pulls a thread through the entire u.s stock market and industry. That's going to get pulled here, it's a purely chinese matter and i do anticipate the chinese market to go through thermal, especially the real estate market, but it will have minimal effect if anything on the us market. Actually, i made a video i'm going to put the link right here claiming how this actually benefits the u.s stock market by flowing money from china to the u.s, but it's a whole different discussion. The main thing you need to remember here is that lehman brothers had derivatives that basically were like a piece of jenga when you pulled it, the whole thing collapsed.

This is completely different situation. We're talking about chinese real estate. It's completely insulated. Imagine the quarantine and there's no way to break out of this quarantine.

This is exactly what's going on here now, what's going to happen next year, so evergreen currently holds land now lehman brothers, as i just told you held derivatives now. Here's the problem that lehman brothers had that evergren doesn't have now real estate is not as murky as financial assets. Now financial assets can be really appreciated, can be really depreciated. It's a lot like a manic, depressive kind of incident.

You never know what you're gon na get with real estate. It's not as murky the valuation of the real estate is quite clear. It may not be amazing right now, china, but everybody knows the value of that real estate. You know with the derivative financial instrument.

You know it can be something, and that can be something you know. A tesla stock, for example, is a good example that the financial instrument is not as clear as physical real estate. That is why i see a lot of people going into real estate during inflation. For example - and you see it as well - that's because of that reason the evaluation is very clear and very solid for lehman brothers.

They never had the shot to get out of it. Their derivative structure collapsed, like a house of cards now evergreen as fricked up as they are, they still have a shot to get out of it, because all they got to do is get some cash. Get some patience from the banks finish the projects that they have stuck right now because of lack of cash, sell these assets even at a discount, get cash flow and eventually repay their debt. The only thing they need is patience and cash, and they can eventually get out of this now, usually in the user situation um, you don't have that if you're in trouble, nobody trusts you anymore, they cut off your credit immediately, but this is china and you have To understand that the chinese banks are basically the long arm of the chinese government, so if the government says lend they lend if they say, don't lend they don't lend if they say baby asian they'll be patient.
So i think this is the way for the chinese government to actually help every grant, without bailing them out by using the local banks, to extend more credit to them, to finish their projects and to eventually get out of it. This is what i think is going to happen. So next up we're going to have this situation, a lot of heads will roll a lot of people will get fired, i'm hoping that this is as bad as it gets for those people, but this is china. Who knows um, but what actually will happen next is they'll get the cash from the local banks, or at least some sort of a leeway or grace and they'll be allowed to finish these projects, so they can get cash flow, so they can eventually repay it.

But the chinese government is not going to leave this company, as is because, as is it poses a massive risk, it's too big to fail. This is exactly why they're about to get bailed out indirectly, so the chinese government will actually weaken this company by breaking it apart. I think into a few pieces, one two, three four, five six seven pieces: every department is going to be a standalone company, and that way you create basically weaker structure that doesn't have the synergies that doesn't have the networking and essentially we'll never get to the situation Of too big to fail - and with that being said, whenever you see a video on youtube basically about the armageddon, that's coming with this whole contingent event. You have to understand this is done purely for clicks.

Nothing in it actually makes sense if those people had any understanding of financial principles and how these things work, they would have never said it, but hey everything is fair in war and clicks. I guess well not for me, i'm here to bring you the truth. Behind the scenes, even if it gets me less clicks, i mean it is what it is. A huge shout out to channel members patrons i'll, see you from beijing, because i think i have a flight to catch.

My grandpa i'll see you tomorrow, foreign.

By Stock Chat

where the coffee is hot and so is the chat

33 thoughts on “Evergrande – the $340 billion disaster”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Red Baran says:

    Have you seen the real estate in China? It's litteraly a house of cards. Ghost cities that are falling apart. Their bubble is going to burst.

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Bogdan says:

    The government is rationing electricity after the October national holiday, so hold on and enjoy the ride !

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ran Ram says:

    Tom, you were so right when you called it on you previous videos that the chinese government would bailout evergrande but in an indirect way to save face with its citizenry…. You are awesome!!!

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ashwin Kapur says:

    The single biggest problem with Lehman which took it down was Archstone. Archstone held very high quality real-estate, high-end apartments in tier 1 markets like Manhattan. Lehman which owned Archstone was on the hock for the debt. The market got spooked that renters wouldn't pay rent/vacancy would go down and Lehman would default on the debt. Without the Archstone deal, Lehman was almost certainly sound even with the end-of-the-world assumptions about default rates etc made at the bottom of the financial crises. Lehman would actually have been just fine had they not rejected two private bailout offers from Japanese banks. Lehman collapsed even though the Archstone deal actually was extremely sound. Archstone has never missed a debt payment. Net rental income at Archstone has never covered less than 60% of debt service.

    This notion that real estate is going to be sound and will always be fine given enough time is not supported by the data. Evergrande is in significantly worse shape than Lehman because they don't rent this real-estate and don't already have renters paying rent. They need to build and sell these apartments. If real-estate prices go down in China, or construction costs for the apartments which are already sold but not yet built go up, this is a big problem even if there is debt forbearance. The costs of construction materials are spiking. Labor costs in China are going up. Real estate prices in China should go down. Vacancy rates are very high, apartments are mostly bought because there aren't a lot of investment options for regular Chinese. An apartment that has never been lived in is considered much more valuable than a used apartment. Used apartment prices tend to go down like used car prices go down in the US.

    I don't disagree with your conclusion that this may be a non-issue for the US markets. The US (and Western) does not seem to have enough exposure to this to make the financial system vulnerable. If western equity markets tank it's likely because they are are fairly nosebleed valuations right now, not Evergrande.

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Robert Moreno says:

    I hope you are right… However, in my opinion, the systemic issues here are a lack of ethics, morals, and perhaps common sense, these hundreds of vacant assets over the past few years have been found to be built with poor regulation and in many cases, within a few years, the new buildings were already falling apart! My heart goes out to all the people that bought into their house of cards, Ponzi scheme… And as for the creative entrepreneurial perpetrators, I guess will soon see if they start jumping out of buildings, get injected with CVD, or get the firing squad!

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars serpentza says:

    Itโ€™s so refreshing to see someone who actual understands whatโ€™s happening here, brilliant video mate!

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Thanh Nguyen says:

    Thanks for laying off click bait. I unsubscribed because of it a few months ago but I love watching you so I'm resubscribing

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Bum Hong says:

    not sure if this is the straw that breaks the camel's back but real estate is 25% of China's economy and China is/was the biggest economic growth contributor of the world. If Evergrande goes down, it could (not will) pop the speculative housing bubble in China (the average apartment price vs average annual income is over 33 – crazy vs other countries). it may not be Lehman Brothers but possibly Bear Stearns – a canary in the coal mine

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Drakan says:

    Yeah, but no. What's driving the Chinese real estate bubble is the two-digit capital appreciation of real estate per annum. People are investing on overpriced property on the hope their investment will double every 5 years. They don't trust stocks after the 2015 crash. Guess what, it ain't going to happen no matter what the Chinese govt says. The rug has been pulled from beneath them and the wool taken from their eyes. All this house of cards is built on the premise of 10 – 15% gains per year. When that goes up in smoke the whole thing comes crashing down. The illusion vanishes and you are left with ghost cities, overpriced property and millions of buyers who've lost their life savings. So no, it will have consequences mate. It may not be a financial armageddon like Lehman was but it will impact them severely and by extension us. The name of this real estate musical chairs game is 'confidence'. Take away investor's confidence. and you are going to see a brutal bear market in Chinese real estate. Your vid doesn't address any of these points, just wishful thinking and yada yada, no rigorous analysis. Downvoted.

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Beautiful Korea says:

    I just unsubscribed. You have no idea what you are talking about. People invested lots of money in China. When people lose confidence in Chinese market, they leave. But it is not that simple. When investors leave, asset pirice crashes and lots of people lose lots of money. You talked about people leave China and invest in the US. But actually it is more like people invested 100 in Chinese market and when they leave they can salvage 60 and invest it in the US. So it's not the same. When people lose lots of money and if one of them is a major financial institution, it's financial crisis all over again. Your analysis is wrong and you definitely have no idea what you are talking about. Furthermore, it is not only Evergrande but most real-estate developers in China are in trouble including Evergrande. You really have no idea or clue.

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Adam Bennett says:

    The projects wont be finished in time for them to pay their bills and they have just given a huge amount of it away at a discount. Downturn incoming.

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Charles Wynn says:

    If you owed China money and could not pay your debts, the China will take your lands or harbor as the collateral. Now the China owed nearly $340 billion and mostly they wii default and the theyโ€™re just forget about it ๐Ÿค”๐Ÿค”๐Ÿ˜

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars ๅทๆจ้š† says:

    i disagree with tom this round ๐Ÿ˜†,,, but who cares about my view let it go hahaha

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Blu Cheer says:

    Bullshit ch9na funds our bullshit, if they gota fund their own bullshit they canโ€™t fund our bullshitโ€ฆ yes bullshit

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jeff Bourke says:

    Like that Patrick Boyle dude guy. He is ultimate clickbait FUDer… Probably just watches Tom Nash videos and makes his own click baits.

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars KO L says:

    Cnbc said itโ€™s all ok now though and nothing bad will happen. Itโ€™s all just a big scam! Theyโ€™re doing really well honest! ๐Ÿ™ˆ

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars J Licht says:

    Those projects you speak of are expensive and with inflation gets worst. The Chinese will let them fall as example

    And others will follow

  18. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Planet disaster says:

    Blog about climate change and disasters on the planet๐ŸŒŽ welcome to the YouTube channel ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ

  19. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Frank Kurka says:

    Better get those electric hair clippers ready. Itโ€™s Thursday, my dude.

  20. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars D.N.E. says:

    Debt system coming to an end….Evergrande is the first domino to fall and will spread systematically throughout whole economy. After all, it is all connected. Sheople masses will be brought to their knees….Sorry, Tom….enjoy the ride down!!!

  21. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars jkt says:

    As a Chinese, I don't agree. I think you don't understand in China, real estate = the entire financial system in the past decades. This is of course an oversimplification and exaggeration, but it is a good mental model to understand its scale.

    Put in another more "correct" perspective, Chinese real estate market = US stock market in terms of its capability to absorb capitals. We are not talking about Chinese real estate, and we are talking about the ENTIRE Chinese financial market.

  22. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Lo L says:

    108xbaba schiba inu gooooo doge ;))))
    Kidding
    Awesome as always Tom thank you for the awesome video

  23. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars David dk Kerr says:

    โ€œComing from me, this carries weightโ€ lol the balls on this guy! Ha! Love it

  24. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars SG says:

    Can you do an analysis video on AFRM. Is it too late to get in? What are your thoughts Tom Nash?

  25. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Drotopia says:

    Iโ€™m regret not buying the dip:( thought we would have another day of bleeding

  26. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jelle van Golen says:

    but Tom, Real Estate market in China has truly been crazy. A complete collapse of the Chinese RE market would hurt the whole Chinese economy, and so would hurt western investors in China right? It seems to easy like this

  27. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Lorentz Invariant says:

    The real estate in question is not like the real estate in the west. It doesnโ€™t hold the corresponding value to western real estate. The real estate in question is much closer to worthless paper than property of value. Because of this I think it might be more significant that you think.

  28. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Dave Mayton says:

    Although some investors will be offered "discounted" properties, we have to remember what these properties are. They are high rise apartments constructed quickly and with very poor quality. (side note- China has poured more concrete in the last 6 years than all of the concrete ever poured in The US since WWI). To add to the mayhem, 29% of China's GDP is real estate.

  29. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mike B says:

    I think you should have you grandpa on the show he sounds like he has a sense of humor

  30. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars affe gorilla says:

    I actually think this will not even be 10% of the crap we had in 2008!

  31. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Rodrigo Ortega says:

    One important thing is that for chinese culture, the first thing you do is buy a house.

  32. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Skyler Enola says:

    It's over leveraging and that's why the Chinese government set those rules to rectify the industry. The US lift debt ceiling to unlimited is biggest fraud in human history!!!!

  33. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars deschua76 says:

    The Evergrande issue is such lame old news. Congrats to those who bought the dip and rest in pieces to those who didnโ€™t!!

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