Real estate company Zillow recently announced it is shutting down its house flipping unit Zillow Offers. They currently have thousands of homes in their inventory which they will have to dump at fire sale prices which will lead to hundreds of millions of dollars in looses. The stock price fell ~35% on the news wiping out nearly $10 billion of market cap. In this video we go over what Zillow's house flipping business was, why it failed, and what the future prospects is for the company.
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What's up guys and welcome back to wall street millennial on this channel, we cover everything related to stocks and investing in today's video we're going to talk about one recent high profile. Failure in corporate america zillow an online residential real estate marketplace recently announced its third quarter. 2021 financial results, along with moderately strong results on the top line. They announced the winding down of their home flipping business zillow offers zillow offers as a business.

They started in 2018 that engages in buying renovating and selling houses in an automated fashion. On behalf of the company itself in the conference call zillow ceo rich barton said that zillow offers relied too heavily on the difficult problem of predicting home prices. With the recent cooling off of u.s residential real estate prices, much of zillow's inventory of houses ended up depreciating in value by the time they were able to unload them. As a result, they wrote down a nearly half billion dollar loss on zillow offers.

In the most recent quarter alone, this shock law sent the stock tumbling immediately in this video, we'll talk about what business zillow was in what happened with zillow offers and where that leaves the company today, zillow was started in the early 2000s by richard barton and lloyd. Frink, who both worked for microsoft previously barton had the vision of using zillow to digitize the real estate markets. Traditionally, real estate transactions have inherently been face to face, and in person the majority of the time with real estate professionals called agents. It's the job of real estate agents to connect buyers and sellers for real estate transactions.

Usually both the buyer and seller have their own agents to scout the market and represent them in negotiations in general. Whenever there's a situation where each transaction is done with a large amount of in-person dealing and communication, the possibility of digitizing and putting things online is always a consideration in the real estate industry. That's where zillow comes in zillow helps connect home buyers and sellers through their online marketplace. On zillow.com, sellers can list their homes for sale very easily, and buyers can instantly search for homes that fit their geographic area and other factors.

This was a big change from the incumbent system dominated by the mls. The mls, a paid service primarily only used by full-time professional, real estate agents, is a tool that solves the same basic problem of connecting buyers and sellers. The value add from zillow was that anyone can use it to show and view listings whether they want to use a real estate agent or not. This went a long way towards making the residential real estate market more efficient for more than a decade.

Zillow operated this marketplace as its main product. They made money by offering professional services and marketing products to real estate agents on their platform, but the total addressable market for these products in the residential real estate market was clearly capped. There's only so much revenue. You can hope to generate by maintaining a marketplace website.
People only use a few times a year at most. So in 2018 they announced a new radical business idea for a company of their size, large-scale professional house flipping in their 2018 annual press conference. The ceo of zillow touted their new house slipping venture as a huge step for the company rich barton, particularly emphasized that it quote dramatically increases their total addressable market. Unquote, they increase their borrowing capacity by a billion dollars to prepare to buy and renovate large numbers of houses which they did do.

Take a look at this chart of their total and current liabilities over the history of the company, which you can see for yourself on our website wallstreetmillennial.com. You can see that in the third quarter of 2018, they nearly doubled their long-term liabilities in blue to about 700 million dollars. Then, a year later, their long-term liabilities ballooned to one and a half billion dollars all the while their current liabilities, which means mainly short-term debt, increased every quarter to more than 900 million dollars by the end of 2019.. This was all mainly to fund their purchases of houses to flip, but unfortunately, the house flipping proved to be unprofitable.

Flipping houses is traditionally something that individuals can do on a small scale to make profits in the range of tens of thousands or sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars. It requires extensive knowledge of plumbing electrical interior design and sometimes even construction in order to be successful. On top of that, it needs careful attention to the local market dynamics of the real estate markets in which the flips are being done, and even if everything is done right, a downturn in the market can make flips unprofitable. Here's ceo rich barton on cnbc, reflecting on what happened with zillow's house flipping business.

This was a necessary decision. We just determined that being an eye. Buyer was too risky, too volatile and ultimately addressed too few customers too narrow. So so i mean i i guess some could have suggested to you before you did it that it's going to be volatile and unpredictable and obviously change the sort of uh predictability of your earnings flow.

So to to what extent was this a sort of i told you so moment to some people that said that in the first place we went into the business as a big swing um on the bet that we could actually predict the price of a home? Six months into the future, and do so with a very narrow margin of error and have our hold times be very short. The key is that the success of doing house flipping on a scale as large as zillow requires having very accurate models to predict what the value of a house is and what the value of the house would be after some amount of renovation. The problem is that that's not something that can be easily evaluated by a computer. A machine learning algorithm cannot effectively utilize information about things relevant to a house price as nuanced as, for example, if the floor layout doesn't make sense, a house might appear to an algorithm to be undervalued based on things like total square footage, number of bedrooms and bathrooms.
Comps, etc. But if that's the case, because the house is on a septic system that cost tens of thousands of dollars to get rid of, for example, that might explain why the house isn't actually worth what it might seem on paper. A human buyer would be talking to the seller's agent and learning all these factors on a case-by-case basis, but an algorithm applied to tens of thousands of flips like what zillow was doing, might end up buying all these types of situations. Thinking that's getting a great deal when reality it may not among the investing community.

There were doubters about the idea of zillow offers from the very beginning, the low profit margins and capital intensive nature of the business were always seen as less desirable than zillow's core business. The inherently human and situational reality of house flipping led some to predict that the idea would fail from the beginning: here's steve iceman an investment manager famous for shorting the real estate market in 2008 and being portrayed in the book, the big short back in 2019. I would say: zillow has one of the most flawed business models, i've seen in a very very long time. They had a good business which was their internet real estate platform.

The growth in that has slowed dramatically so that now the growth is zero and in that business they're having real problems um, they like to say that they're experimenting with new pricing, but really what they're doing is they're trying to change the pricing of their entire business. That's a problem. The part of the business i find the most problematic is what they call their. I believe i home business internet buying business where they actually go out and buy homes and flip them.

I actually think the company doesn't understand the risk. The real risks of this business, which are massive and one of the ways you can see that is last night on the conference, call the first words out of the ceo's mouth. When he talked about this business was the how big the tam was, the totally addressable market and, of course, the real estate market in the united states is very, very large. But it's a misapplication of the word tam to apply it to the real estate market because there really is no tam in the way people think about it.

In terms of the internet, there are thousands of mini markets all over the united states, they're all local they're. All extremely different, they all have incredibly different risks. For example, did you know that in dallas there's a problem that many many homes have cracked foundations? These type of different problems exist all over the country. This is a capital intensive business.
I know i know only one thing for certain between now and five years from now assuming the company has some level of success, there will be massive problems that they will uncover. I'm sure there'll be write, downs, i'm sure there'll be impairments, and i'm convinced that the investor base doesn't have a clue about what this business is. Really all about. Zillow now sits on 7 000 houses that they are trying to unload onto the residential markets all across the country and is laying off a quarter of all of its employees as it tries to backpedal on its failed house flipping business.

Although the stock is down massively since the news broke, the reality is that zillow's core business is still strong and actually a very good business. They call it the imt segment. It makes a very high profit margin of close to 30 percent and is incredibly capital light. It's the essence of a tech company.

This part of zillow might not be growing very fast, but it's not like the company is now doomed to fail. If the stock price gets low enough, it may be worth it to investors to consider the stock based on the merits of its non-house flipping businesses, alright, guys that wraps it up for this video. What do you think about richard barton's house, flipping debacle? Should he have known not to do it back in 2018? Let us know in the comments section below, if you enjoyed this content, make sure to hit the like button and subscribe. So you don't miss future videos in the meantime.

Thank you. So much for watching and we'll see you in the next one wall, street millennial, signing out.

By Stock Chat

where the coffee is hot and so is the chat

33 thoughts on “Zillow s house flipping disaster explained”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Yeezy says:

    CEO YOLO his entire company lul, truly belongs in wsb with the other autists

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Danielle Phillips says:

    "Good colleague, I advise all of you to forget the predictions and start making a good profit now, because future valuations are just speculation and guesswork." The market is very volatile and you cannot tell if it is bearish or bullish. While I and others negotiate without fear of losing, others are patient for the price to skyrocket. It all depends on the model you follow. I was able to do 6b TC in July only by setting up trades with the advice and information of Rowan jaxon

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Marius 007 says:

    I don't know what Zillow was thinking. Their entire core business model was to make the real estate market more transparent and efficient. Which they did. But then they came in and said "hmm, this market it not very efficient, we can play the spread here by flipping houses", which just seems to undermine their core business?

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars wtf_ usa says:

    Once again, I'm sure all execs and insiders were out already. Would be interesting to see stats on insider selling YTD. -70% since March. Chock up another big win for Steve Eisman.

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Vince Vang says:

    Zillow is truly criminal for doing this flipping business and betting way over price against regular folks who just try to get a roof for their family.

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Gulam Mohiddin says:

    I hope Zillow dumps the houses for a loss and crash the long running Toronto housing market lol..

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Forward Plans says:

    I contend it was an incorrect AI algorithm. A REAL AI learning system needs to be implemented. Buying and selling houses requires a finite (not infinite) number of variables so each house can be quantified. The real work is collecting and processing the data.

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Laura Tech says:

    The pandemic exposed many flaws in such a model. I also think the Zillow website needs many changes to make it more user-friendly.

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Xing He says:

    LMFAO!!! GOOOOD!!! That’s what they get for bullying the average buyer out of the market. 🖕🏾🖕🏾🖕🏾

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mani D says:

    I think they got caught up chasing the bright shiny object that is *risk minimisation through diversification*. This wonderful factor when thrown into an appropriately designed spreadsheet, can turbocharge securities.

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars KingOfMadCows says:

    I wonder if Zillow had considered all the subjective elements that go into buying a house, things like reputation and history. People won't want to buy a house if the neighbors are loud and annoying or if a major crime took place in it years ago or if superstitious neighbors think it's haunted or cursed. Can their algorithms account for that?

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Rhys Wilkie says:

    As a lawyer who has made more money in law school flipping than the first 7 years (maybe more after tax) of my law career. This was self evidently not going to work without excellent ai that had general intelligence.

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Alexpx ThreeTen says:

    Nobody but Zillow actually believes those Zestimates are accurate. Nobody.

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Farty Wood says:

    That CEO is a looser, he is pulling the plug already???? Come on man, you dont pull the plug until you loose $30-40 Billion. Look at all the softbank companies!! DUH!!!!

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Opmac Ace says:

    Fuck Zillow instead of selling their stock of houses to average people for pennies the dollar they instead sold them to institutional fucks for pennies to the dollar.

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Andrew H says:

    There is nothing to wonder about. They overpaid by insane amounts. In my area I know of a deal where they paid nearly $1 million for a house that should have been priced mid market, it needed tons of work and presented like sh!t, and the very top of the market, for the nicest model in the tract (same floor plan) was 850K sold just prior. So they paid nearly 150K over the very top of the market, for a mid market house.

    Their CEO is full of sh!t when he says it was difficult market conditions that did them in. No, it was gross incompetence and a pricing algorithm so badly broken you would think it was straight buggy. This was in a crazy UP market, and they couldn't make it work??? Are you kidding me???? A pig could make money in an up market. They even had crazy low fees and insanely good escrow terms. They had the damn advantage, in an up market, and they f-ed it up.

    The sick thing is, their CEO will get a huge bonus for incompetence.

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Fox says:

    I'm glad that this didn't work out. If it did they'd just squeeze out more profits by making housing prices rise even more than they already do, theoretically as much as possible if they did it "right"

  18. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars de hash says:

    So, did they actually try to flip 10 houses first? And maybe 100 after that? Or they decided to go all-in and see if it is going to work? Nice business scaling.

  19. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ruben Dario Toribio says:

    My opinion is a high-level overview at best, but it seems like any time the word "tech" or "disruption" is perceived as either the core or the lever used to differentiate a company in an industry/market (whether it's true or not), a good portion of them end up committing too much to either providing an all-encompassing platform of related services or trying to fix something that isn't broken. I guess I'm just saying, that "growth" moniker on some of these companies is making them focus less on their strengths and willing to take risks that may not be worth it just to impress investors or keep that "constant growth" persona alive.

  20. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Antonio Horta says:

    I would never buy a house directly from Zillow. We all have a choice in weather to continue supporting companies that provide nothing to society. Use a local realtor

  21. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jacob W says:

    one thing that I'm surprised more people aren't commenting on is that by having a business that bought houses, it implicitly creates a conflict of interest, because you just end up seeing the houses that zillow themselves decided not to buy; we just get the scraps.

  22. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Allen Pradhan says:

    For the company writes off the houses today and sits on them for a few months or years the returns will probably be very good. This could lead to long term profit for short term loss

  23. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars DavidJMa says:

    Zillow learned the lesson fro 'Real Estate 101' that is – real estate is best managed locally. Tech heads think they can control everything everywhere via an algorithm. They need to go back to Business School instead of Computer Science School…..

  24. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Rick Reyes says:

    I'm a journeyman carpenter and I have to say that it is completely entirely totally IMPOSSIBLE to flip a house by some algorithm. Each house has to be inspected by a HUMAN BEING to check and test all aspects of the house. Pipes, roofs, wires, foundations…..the list is endless of potential issues that can be detrimental to the bottom line.

  25. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Polands Profits says:

    This is honestly so good for the overall health of the market. The more stocks like peloton Snapchat and moderna tank the better my TQQQ position feels

  26. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Dany Gauthier says:

    Hi
    I love the episode, really well made…
    I ready a few comment and I thinks people are looking at it too hard. It is easy now to say it was a stupid idea… but every business ideal look stupid before you even try. Also about the risk… well if you don't take risk you never do anything. I actually believe that I think the ideal of doing flip using algorith is good in the seen that as a flipper myself we always try to automatisate our process and willow have acces too soo much more info then us regular flipper. I am pretty sure that the problem was not the buy or sell price but the process between. For exemple after the contract is sign you usully send a inspector to see if there are thing you didn't see, (that your algorithm didn't predict… but since zillow is all over the country they need like thousand of inspector so of course there are a few of them that was bad and didn't get vet out properly at first… so they didn't use the inspection contengency … same with the contractor bid… just those 2 occation if not properly done will cost you a lot … they are essential risk mitigation system… Zillow being a IT company simply rush too quickly and they needed more time to test their system… Wanting to grow too fast probably was also the problem… since they were doing there first flip they should have aim for the more profitable deal and do a lot less deal for the first few years to test and learn…

    You know a lot of edge fund manager are actually trying to do the same thing…

  27. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars prap says:

    SILVER + solar-panels will be the Hype + Boom in 2022, and forward. Build a position NOW.

  28. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars lombardo141 says:

    You got to take risks. We would be saying different things if it worked out.

  29. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars prap says:

    ★ ★ Lord Sminem…please continue pump Silver $100+. Thank you My Lord. ★ ★
    ★ ★ Lord Sminem…please continue pump Silver $100+. Thank you My Lord. ★ ★

  30. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars DrunkJackal says:

    Zillow has my house listed as having a fireplace. After 10 years, I still haven't found it.

  31. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Lostsoulsnfocus says:

    So in English…..Zillow tried to corner the market by buying up all available housing in that area and then tried to inflate the prices to their liking. Flipping a bunch of house hasn’t been profitable for over a decade since the fed changed the rules.

  32. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Chaelor says:

    Truly a case of "you miss every shot you don't take" there were only 2 outcomes from the start. If they did it really well we would be singing their praises.

  33. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars XReddevilsX3 says:

    Wonder what will happen to open door since it has a similar business. Fliping homes is capital intensive and assets heavy.

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