Trading 212 have just updated their Terms & Conditions and these changes are all to do with lending out shares.
The truth is that many of these changes are more of a clarification of what were fairly loosely worded T&Cs in the previous iteration.
But there are some very concerning elements that Trading 212 have put into these new clauses that include a potential impact on dividend returns and shareholder voting rights.
However they have also added some improvements too - the security provided for lent out shares is a big improvement on the previous setup and provides much better guarantees to those who hold shares with Trading 212.
I'll walk you through all the key updates and changes.
If you want to try some other apps while you're waiting for new accounts to open OR if you want to pick up some free shares, check the links below.
💵 OTHER INVESTING APPS TO TRY
GET A FREE SHARE WORTH UP TO $150 WITH STAKE (UK, Australia, NZ)
https://hellostake.pxf.io/qnA3xq
You will get a free share if you sign up using this link and deposit a minimum of £50.
SIGN UP FOR ETORO (Global)
https://med.etoro.com/B15358_A95689_TClick_SSasha.aspx
67% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. Your capital is at risk. Other fees may apply.
GET A FREE SHARE WORTH UP TO £200 WITH FREETRADE (UK ONLY)
https://magic.freetrade.io/join/sasha-yanshin
You need to sign up and make any deposit to get the free share.
DISCLAIMER: Some of these links may be affiliate links. If you purchase a product or service using one of these links, I will receive a small commission from the seller. There will be no additional charge for you.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a financial advisor and this is not a financial advice channel. All information is provided strictly for educational purposes. It does not take into account anybody's specific circumstances or situation. If you are making investment or other financial management decisions and require advice, please consult a suitably qualified licensed professional.
The truth is that many of these changes are more of a clarification of what were fairly loosely worded T&Cs in the previous iteration.
But there are some very concerning elements that Trading 212 have put into these new clauses that include a potential impact on dividend returns and shareholder voting rights.
However they have also added some improvements too - the security provided for lent out shares is a big improvement on the previous setup and provides much better guarantees to those who hold shares with Trading 212.
I'll walk you through all the key updates and changes.
If you want to try some other apps while you're waiting for new accounts to open OR if you want to pick up some free shares, check the links below.
💵 OTHER INVESTING APPS TO TRY
GET A FREE SHARE WORTH UP TO $150 WITH STAKE (UK, Australia, NZ)
https://hellostake.pxf.io/qnA3xq
You will get a free share if you sign up using this link and deposit a minimum of £50.
SIGN UP FOR ETORO (Global)
https://med.etoro.com/B15358_A95689_TClick_SSasha.aspx
67% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. Your capital is at risk. Other fees may apply.
GET A FREE SHARE WORTH UP TO £200 WITH FREETRADE (UK ONLY)
https://magic.freetrade.io/join/sasha-yanshin
You need to sign up and make any deposit to get the free share.
DISCLAIMER: Some of these links may be affiliate links. If you purchase a product or service using one of these links, I will receive a small commission from the seller. There will be no additional charge for you.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a financial advisor and this is not a financial advice channel. All information is provided strictly for educational purposes. It does not take into account anybody's specific circumstances or situation. If you are making investment or other financial management decisions and require advice, please consult a suitably qualified licensed professional.
Hey guys, it's sasha, so last night trading 212 sent emails and notifications to their customers with yet another update to their terms and conditions, as most of you probably haven't, read these and won't be reading these terms conditions. I thought i'd read them for you and tell you exactly what's changed and, as you might have guessed, there are some nasty surprises in there. I think some of these changes will really not make you feel too happy. The truth is all of these changes in these new terms.
Conditions are to do with lending your shares out. So let me tell you what i think about these changes now. All of these new changes only apply to the invest account and not to the isa, so you'll need to be in your invest account in order to see that notification and that's because shares held in your isa account cannot be lent out. So if you only use the trading to want to ice account, these changes won't apply to you now.
Lending shares is nothing new for trading 202. The concept was already in place in the last set of the terms conditions updates, and this is one of the ways in which they actually make money, because the only other fee they charge is a 0.15 foreign exchange fee on transactions. That is not a huge amount and because they are a for-profit business. Unsurprisingly, they do actually want to make some money from somewhere else, unlike their cousins over in the united states, selling order flow is not legal in the uk, so lending out shares is about the only other major available option, so here is what's actually changed.
First, off trading to one two have made the wording around share lending a lot more direct and a lot more obvious, starting with the title. The title of clause 22 used to be securities financing transactions and now is just securities lending. There are four new sections that have been added in and all seven of the old ones were rewritten in a big way. There is no way to opt out of this.
If you have a trading 202, invest account. You automatically agree to trading 202 being able to lend your shares out that bit actually hasn't changed. It's just worded a little bit more clearly. Now.
Let me start with something that i haven't seen. Anyone else mention they really really buried. This change - and it's bad here, is what the new section 22.9 says: shares that you lent to us and which we lend out to the borrower are generally recalled from the borrower before x, dividend date in order to capture the dividend where the recall does not take Place we will be entitled to a payment from the borrower and you will be entitled to a payment from us equivalent to the dividend you would otherwise have received. Please note that the aforementioned payment may have different tax implications.
You remain responsible for any and all tax obligations that may arise in connection with the aforementioned payment. So if the shares that you own earn a dividend, while they are lent out, you will get the money, but it is actually the hedge fund or whoever it is, that receives the actual dividend, and this is really important. This means that, although you do get the money in the end, the money you receive will technically not be a dividend, it will be income now. They are not saying this explicitly because they operate in different jurisdictions, because it kind of sounds a little bit like tax advice, but they are implying it very heavily by saying that these payments may have different tax implications. So that means that trading 202 can decide whenever they feel like it to lend your shares out, and if they decide to do it, you will have to pay income tax and national insurance on it or whatever. The equivalent is in the country that you live in. At the highest rate that you're paying it on your salary, so if you're a higher rate taxpayer in the uk and you have a dividend portfolio sitting with trading one two, i hope you like earning only half of the dividends when traded on two feels like earning A bit of cash by lending your shares out this seems pretty absurd. Now, technically, this was probably roughly the same in the shorter old terms and conditions, but the fact that they've decided to add this entire clause that clarifies this in such great detail kind of suggests that they want to avoid having any responsibility for causing these kind of Tax issues and implications down the line.
Another thing that is changing is the security element with lending your shares out when your shares are lent out. The borrower of those shares the hedge fund, or whoever it is, will put up some collateral, and this has actually improved compared to the last set of terms conditions. The collateral used to be cash. The trading 212 would just hold themselves and that created a risk.
If trading 202 were to become insolvent, for example, while your shares are being lent out, then you technically could lose your money, because your shares are not held in a segregated account. They've been lent out to whoever it is, is borrowing them and the cash that's being held as collateral is being held by trading to one to themselves and according to the previous wording, which was not very clear on this. That kind of suggests that you could have lost your money in that situation. Now, after this change, the collateral will become u.s treasury bonds, and these will be held in a segregated account.
You can read this in section 22.5 of these new terms, conditions and a lengthy statement that says pretty much the same thing in the risk: disclosure as well. The collateral covers 102 of the value of the shares that are being lent out, and this is good. The amount of collateral is adjusted on a daily basis, and this is actually very good in the way it's set up, because if a crash was to happen or some other major event where trading 202 stopped operating. For whatever reason, the likelihood is that the value of the stock market would fall too, and at that point the value of the collateral held on that day will be 102 of the previous trading day's value so which is going to be higher. So that means that the transactions would go on hold at that point, probably in presuming that the fscs and fca come in and actually do something. That means that it should be more than enough to cover any liabilities to those of us who hold hold those shares that have been lent out. So that's actually kind of good. Now, technically, there is a risk of the opposite happening, but the market doesn't have a history of suddenly rushing upwards by a huge amount in one trading day, and if it did, it is unlikely to cause trading two on two to collapse as a result, because things Will be booming, there'll, be lots of fees collected and so on now, treasury bonds are good because they are relatively liquid and because they're held in the segregated account, and that adds to your level of security.
Now, let's talk about the different scenarios. Let's say that you hold your shares and they are not being lent out in that case. If, for example, trading 212 was to go under and you had shares with them, you'd still be able to get your shares back because they are held in a segregated account with a third party. Now, if your shares are lent out at that point, then the collateral is also now going to be segregated.
So you will still get your money back now if the borrower of those shares collapses, but the other two remain like the hedge fund that goes down. You'll still have that collateral, so you'll still be able to get your money. So that's great, because if any one of these parties goes down, you don't get to lose your money now, if the third party, who they haven't actually named the one that holds your collateral, they collapse, but the borrower of the shares the hedge fund does not, then You'll also still get your shares back so all good on that front, but you still have a counterparty risk because if at least two of these different people involved in this complicated setup collapse, at the same time, then you're gon na run into some kind of trouble. For example, if the company that owns your collateral collapses and that causes trading to one two to collapse because they become insolvent as a result, then you will lose your money because all of your investments will be gone and you won't be able to recover them, because Your collateral is gone and trading two on two has also gone if the company that holds the collateral collapses and the borrower the hedge fund also collapses.
At the same time, then you will again have lost your investment. In that case, trading 202 is probably almost certainly also going under, but that's besides the point. In any case, the likelihood of any one of these parties going down is really pretty low and the likelihood of two of them going down at the same time is much lower. The exposure of these hedge funds that they're likely to deal with to the specific individual uk companies that will hold the segregated collateral is gon na, be in the grand scheme of things relatively small. So balance is not a huge deal in my personal opinion, but what is a big deal and will really annoy the wall? Street best community is the voting rights. This has been something that people have asked for some time, but these new terms conditions make it explicitly clear if your shares are lent out. You cannot use your voting rights. In fact, the company that borrowed them gets to vote instead, the hedge fund.
So if, for example, you are sitting there, you are owning a load of amc stock, you're, an ape and a hedge fund turns up to trading 212 and borrows your shares for the time when the vote is due to happen to try - and you know screw you Over then, you get to not have a vote and they, the hedge fund, get to vote on all the issues in a way that suits them and if they borrow enough shares from those different investing companies that allow them to do that, then they could have a Pretty big number of votes, which doesn't sound very fair, and i have a feeling that some people will be really unhappy about this now. These changes - all of these - that i just discussed, are only coming in on the 18th of july 2021, but you'll notice that for some reason, trading 202 have actually gone and published them. You can see them on the website already they're the live version right now, despite them not actually being live for another month, but is that a sign? Are they going to start accepting new accounts soon now that they've resolved these other issues and they've set up? This share lending. Why were they going to update the test conditions now if they weren't intending to accept new accounts? Maybe we're about to see maybe this weekend or maybe in the next couple weeks, we're gon na see new accounts actually open up, or are they going to wait until all customers have had the terms conditions upgraded in july and open up to new accounts soon? Well, i guess we will find out soon enough.
It's been incredibly long already. I know for anyone waiting, it's been a crazy amount of time. Thank you so much for watching. I really really appreciate it and, as always i'll see you guys later,.
I've not started investing yet as I was waiting for 212 to allow new users, so in light of this, what would be the best platform now for somebody long term investing with an isa? 212 still, or Vangaurd, or some other? I'm in the UK by the way.
the Commission Free broker strategy is very simple, they attract a lot of people because people love free stuff and then use the shares that those people have bought to serve their real customers (those they lend to). Its the same strategy social networks use, the user is just a leverage point, the customer is the advertiser. It should scare people that their shares are not registered in their name but rather some nominee who does not care about you. Pay the commission and save yourself.
Can we have an update on FreeTrade and elToro? It seems as though T212 turned out to be operating a bait and switch business model that was 2g2bt, what are FreeTrade and elToro’s business models? Do they make more sense, are they more believable? Are there any new comers to the investment app market that might be interesting to beginners that seem to be built on sound business foundations?
If we don’t agree to lend our shares what’s the repercussions I was a little confused by it all when readying through it can anyone one help?
Is there an alternative broker that will not lend your shares. The hedge funds rob the retails investors in the regulated by law way. Fuc…!!!
Deciding what to do here, I have a large holding of NIO and XPeng in my invest account, this video was helpful, but doing research no to find the best option for me. It could be worse for example if these shares paid dividends, which they don’t.
Just had a notification to accept conditions of "lending my shares" after 1 year of using their services, otherwise my account will become close positions only. Disgusting and dam right diabolical behaviour.
If you’re lucky enough to invest more than 20k per annum outside of your ISA then something to consider. If you’re not, stop worrying 😂 and keep ploughing money in to your ISA
I would say that the liklehood of two of these going bust at the same time is not low, its actually a lot higher if a big squeeze on AMC or GME occurs. Which is a real concern.
another issue is the long delay for buying stocks. Selling is done in seconds but buying takes a long time. I tried with google A and T2 Biosystems and was not able to buy cause markets closed. Before they did this change , it was not like this. It was very much better.
👍Borrowing stock for the voting rights to then act against the interests of the shareholders is disgraceful manipulation.
Hi Sasha apologies it’s unrelated but wanted to ask a question. I am a member of the AMC community and there has been some talk recently about turning off the ability to let the platforms lend out your shares. apparently you can this on We bull in the US. I didn’t know if it was possible on trading 212 so I messaged them yesterday and they said they do lend out our shares and if not happy about this I should liquidate my shares. What are your thoughts on this? There have been videos made in the last few days stating how brokers are calling clients and asking them to lend out their AMC stock with a 5 percent commission! Michelle
I really do not understand how they can lend out your shares you out …crazy shit. I’m gonna leave 212
They didn’t allow voting rights for isa holders though. They know they are fucked with all these fake shares. Also, doesn’t FCA £85000 cover come into affect if they default?
T212 and their shills were quick to attack you on the forums, keep up the good work uncovering their dirty business.
Great update to provide us with an understanding of these changes, would u have any idea if Freetrade have anything like this or plan to in the future? Thanks.
Why go with trading 212 over free-trade.
Just read a good article on one coin.its a good warning for people who invest.
Hi thanks for the info
I’m from the uk and use trading 212 at the minute
What other platforms are out there that are all round good that you would recommend if any please ?
T212 are a truly awful company. I cannot wait till a different broker comes along and takes their spot. They don’t deserve the customers they have.
Thanks for breaking this down.
very good analysis sasha. i knew i should have read em !! ha ha . i enjoy your content in general by the way. keep it up.
Hey dude, love the videos as always. Might be best you check the white balance on the camera where daylight is conflicting with the warm light in your room. Completely washes out your skin.
Lending shares for long or short term are a normal for every broker business so what's the problem, dividend still counts as income if you make over 12.5k a year so no change there regardless of of its dividend or just income from a stock…. so again what's the problem. Seems like you are picking at nothing here, are you a t212 hater? You just looking for views after the scandal of robin hood and others alike that t212 got involved in? Sorry to be negative but everyone is hating on a otherwise perfectly safe reliable company
Hi very interesting video specially for those holding amc in 212 account. Why they don't borrow the shares in an ISA. And could not be avoid it by putting limit order to sell your share a very high price so they can not lent them. Could you consider doing a video about comparing brokers in the UK that allow to option out of lending your shares. Thanks
I have never received any notification to vote on the stocks on Trading212. How can I activate this?
Thanks for this dude. Luckily most of my assets are in the ISA, which is not affected by this. Thanks for clarifying 😁👌
So are all these points coming into effect on the 18th of July or just the Voting issue? Also if you are aware of the $TRCH merge/dividend are you able to make a video or explain exactly what we will recieve and what dates etc because there is so much misinfomation going around from lack of understanding from their own customer support.
I read these terms and conditions and was very concerned. It is not just the lending out of shares but that compounded with the trad restrictions if they think fit (previous changes). What comes as a settlement. The covering bond or the low price if they suspend you selling as a crash and hedge funds getting in trouble usaly occur in unpredictable conditions such as a crash. Also if you have very adverse conditions bonds are not bullet proof if not market exists.
Thanks for highlighting the detail. Some of these weren't obvious to me as I skimmed through the email. Disappointing development from Trading212, it doesn't inspire confidence for me.
great video sasha as always, just curious if youre doing a stake platform review like you did with etoro?
Since you trade on multiple platforms, I think you should know the answer to my question. How does Section 104 rule applies when trading shares of the same company on different brokers (not in ISA) (and in different currencies)? Do you have to average share price from all accounts or what?
Do have any way to know if your shares have been loaned out or not?
And is there any financial benefit to you if they have been or just for T212?
Also is anyone aware, that webull app can be downloaded in UK and used for general purpose (not trading)? App can be used as is, but after registering (again, not for trading purpose) it even gives 3 months free L2 data access.
Thanks, Sasha for explaining all this. Saw an email from T212 and after reading new conditions could not understand what they were saying, but it did not look good. I do realize that "free" share trading is not free at all, since company has to pay at least for software, employees, servers, etc etc. So income will be generated one or another way for the company. Still I would prefer when it comes from something more transparent- currency exchange, transferring fees, otherwise it is like bait and switch.