Every broker I talk to is you look at what Mike Tell Prete just put out and he said I'm just going to rank every company based upon agent growth or agent decrease and you know I'm not going to name the companies that were decreased. You've seen it. You can Google this and you see the companies that are growing. Um, attrition is a very real thing, right? How do you make? how do you maintain growth with attrition and not have an impact a culture? People come, people go.

Whether we like it's this industry turns at two percent a month. Yeah, you have made like two percent a month. They're just. they're gypsies.

they're just moving. But I think we have to fall on the sword as an industry I think that that's unfortunate I Love that. Yeah, tell me more. Real estate is only about two things: cycles and population growth.

Having a real estate team or a brokerage is only about one thing. having quality people that sell more houses. Today, we're going to unpack on the recruiting code. How these two are: helping people recruit hundreds if not thousands of Agents every single year so you can do the same Emily Welcome to the show Kim A quick Bio: Who are you? Why should they listen? Uh Emily Kettenberg 30 years in Real Estate recruited hundreds to teams brokerages and now are able to help thousands recruit thousands.

Yes, right. But with major corporation relationships small Enterprise relationships, teams and more cristianos, Who are you? Why should they listen? And Care yeah my name is Christianos I'm the co-founder and CEO of a company called Human Eyes Over the last 10 years I have in this space which isn't quite as long. thanks for aging me! Chris Yeah, uh. long story short, spent five years at Zillow then built two real estate companies, recruited about 250 agents in two and a half years now helping teams and brokerages all over the country do the same using the system that I built out.

So we've got a system. we've got experience. we've got 10 years, we've got 30 years. So let's talk about recruiting.

There is so many different ways to do it. But but I Want to go very tactically Like We actually created a list of let's just call it 19 different questions. We're going to go through on this so you know, if you're watching this right now, buckle up. probably plan to have this transcribe put inside chatgpt and say write me a plan to do all of these things or just listen up because we're going to give it to you.

So here we go: Uh, Chris Number one: What are some of the key characteristics people should be looking for when hiring or recruiting real estate agents today? I Think it all depends on the Avatar you're looking for, right? I Think every brokerage and team is going to have a different type of Avatar that they focus on. So I think first and foremost before they even do anything. They should get clear on what those avatars are like, right? It's the same way you would think about trying to Target different avatars of buyers and sellers in the marketplace. right? One size does not truly fit All right? Yes! So I think it's getting clear on what your avatar looks like and then figuring out what that person's looking for.

Each group is going to have a different value prop. That's really important to figure out. So most people might be thinking you know luxury, they might be thinking new agents, They might be thinking underperforming agents depending upon broker metrics or whatever you're looking at you know is the arrow going up, flat or down. but I want to give it to you on the flip side and then Emily I want your answer I Think the other way to look at it is what kind of Agents do I not want and if you can list out the things you don't want, then you just reverse it because you know I really want this.

But sometimes it's easier to say I don't want underperformers I Don't want people that aren't coachable I Don't want people that don't follow the guidelines. They don't want people that don't show up at the office. You make up that list and then you reverse it to the positive Emily What are the characteristics you're teaching people they should be looking for as you're doing these workshops? I Agree with Chris I would say Mission Vision core value and then Avatar making sure that they know what they're recruiting too. Yes and then who that perfect person is versus who the not so perfect person is.

Yeah! so I think it really depends on what you're building. Okay I love it I Love it. So let's go to question number two: Can you share your process for identifying potential? Talent on your teams? What's your process? foreign? I Would say that you lean into you know, real estate's relationship business built on trust. Recruiting is the same thing.

the commodity and real estate's the house in recruiting. it's the person. Yeah, so you need to make sure that that person is going to fit within the cultural experience. and I think you have to ask really great questions.

Okay, that's the only way that you're going to dive through. Okay, you got something more on that? Yeah. So I've kind of figured out I have one question that I like to ask during like an initial phone screen and I've talked to a lot of team leaders recently. a lot of broker owners and stuff and they've usually have this laundry list of questions, right? And it's like if you're having an initial conversation with someone and you throw up 30 questions like this, are you actually interviewing them or are you interrogating them right? right? Absolutely.

So I have one question and this is kind of a Jedi mind trick, right? But asking them one simple thing. Tell me a little bit about your real estate life as of lately, right? And that question only goes one of two ways. It either goes constructive, which is hey, I'm not getting the support I need from The Brokerage I'm at now I feel like I could be doing more I'm working really hard but nothing's really happening I'm okay with that answer, right? right? The other answer we call Broker shaming right? which is hey, my broker sucks I'm not getting the help I need. it's everyone else's fault but my own Yes, right? That question right there tells me everything I need to know if I want to continue talking to that person I don't know which Avatar they're going to fall under yet, right? But that simple thing tells me do they fit the culture that I have on my team right now and if they answer that question correctly, I'm going to talk to them.

My hypothesis is, if somebody broke or shames their current broker, they're going to broker shame you when they leave. but am I am I inaccurate in that like six months yeah? Like do you sort of automatically diss that person or or could there be a kernel of Truth inside there and they're just being vulnerable I think that there could be a kernel of truth I think you have to peel back the onion? Yeah, but I agree 100 And you know Also, when the conversation, the initial conversation is about compensation. If they're coming to you for a nickel, they're going to leave someone else for six cents, right? right? I Think it's important just to listen as to I Think as we do these interviews and stuff, we sometimes get emotions right. It just turns into like oh, I'm just gonna talk and blah blah blah.

Really listen to what they're saying because they'll tell you if it's constructive. Yes, I'm on a team now. The guy's great, but he doesn't really give me what I need. That's an okay answer, right? If it's these leads suck, that I'm getting and my splits trash and the Brokers little opportunities here you know, favoritism? Whatever.

I've seen it in six months. they'll be saying the same thing when they go to the next team. Well, this this is perfect because the next question is, how do you ensure a cultural fit when considering somebody for your team you talked about? Mission You know Mission Vision Values So how do you determine if they're the right cultural fit? well? I Think you have to hire too. What it is that your culture is.

So if you don't have the culture defined first, you shouldn't be hiring yet. So if I don't have it defined and and there's a, there's a pretty good. There's a pretty good thought that the person listening right now might say yeah. You know we did that exercise a long time ago.

Like you know we do it. It's really not as as significant today, but I need to recruit more And if you don't know the values that you're you know you're really putting out of the culture that you want. So so give us some insight in your opinion. Chris And Emily back to you, how do I identify like what is my culture really? Implement EOS And do quarterlies? That's my okay, but that? Okay, so that's that's more of an operating system that's you know four disciplines falls under.

Like having what your core values are and what your actually identity as a company is, right? we're still in the first six months of implementing you. also. I Can't speak super intelligently about it. But I think really, sitting down and going.

What do I want people to speak externally about my team? Like right? right when when someone asks what it's like to be on my team, do I want them to talk about all the leads and stuff we give them Or how great the splits are right? Or do I want them to talk about what it feels like to actually work here, right? So I think that's as simple as just whiteboarding it with your team. Sit down and go through like what do we want people to be externally communicating and what is coming top down? I Think that it starts purely from the top. How you present yourself is how the rest of the team's going to present itself. An exercise was once done with myself and my team where they asked everybody in the organization when it works here, what's it like I Love besides that and when it doesn't work here, what's it like and we listed that out and we're like well clearly we want to do the opposite of that and we want to do this and we were able to then synthesize that down to four things and we said okay, this is what we're hiring to got something different I would like to challenge see what your consumers have said about you Oh yeah, so when I've restarted building my first it was take the reviews word cloud them.

then at that point right, what did they say about us right? Because then you know what everyone else is saying about you, right? and that brings Clarity to what you really provide because otherwise you know you're coming up with these great things. but if that's not what the consumer feels about you, it doesn't match. That's how I did the original Strategy matters. Passion rules.

Remember 10 seminars in a row? Could you guys just write down like one or two words that would best describe and like Back then it was like literally hand written. Yeah and somebody had to go through and go like okay, like 97 said this and 100 said this But the Thousand said this and we're like what did they say Tom Ferry strategy and then Tom Ferry Passion I was like oh, strategy matters. Passion rules. There's the company.

Absolutely all right. So let let's switch to how do you approach onboarding and training when agents are joining the team? And that is a big question. But give us some insight on onboarding and training because we can recruit people like crazy. But if we don't onboard and write and train him right, it was for nothing.

Absolutely. So the goal is to hire people who can and will produce. Yes. Bottom line: Yes.

So I think the onboarding is very important to me. Onboarding is systematizing that first piece and that first week. what that looks like? Okay, and then from a training standpoint, in my opinion, it's a 30, 60, 90. And if by the 90 it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Lean in and have that conversation, right? right? So go to even deeper because you I'm just thinking about what we just shared in Cabo recently. but don't go that deep because that took 90 minutes. Yeah, that was. There was no time limit.

No, no. uh. So the thing if I was going to say the single most impactful thing you can do with training and onboarding right now is get strategic about when you're doing it right. I Talked to a gentleman in the ecosystem actually yesterday, right and he was like, well, I hire an agent and then I train them over the course like they come in I train them too long I hire another agent the next week and I start training them and I'm like dude I said for the first first Monday of every month for the rest of the year, you're going to put this in your calendar right and the first Monday of every month for the rest of your you're going to have an onboarding started.

Your goal is to have five butts in those chairs, right? right? and you're just gonna do it for a full week nine to one Monday through Friday and just hit it hard but consistently and like. plan it in advance. Yes, right. He's like his eyes were like blown out of his head, right? So I did a project for a CEO of a very large company.

Um, and I'm not going to say his name In Fairness to him. no disrespect, but just In fairness he Candyman he said could you rewrite our new agent training and I said didn't you just like 15 minutes ago, tell me you have the single greatest new agent trainer on the planet he said I did. but then I caught myself and realized that my failure rate is exactly like everybody else's not good. So I said well, why don't you guys send me over whatever you guys currently do I get like four boxes and I'm like what is all I mean it's just like here's a collateral Tech Stack Here's all of our marketing.

Here's our mortgage company. Here's our title companies, our escalator. Here's our management is legal and I'm like this person just got to your team. They they joined from an existing brokerage or they're coming in brand new.

I Think the only thing they care about is how do I get a client and get a commission check as quickly as possible right? and I'm like so so what if we instead and we just we reimagine it basically for that for that company's model around like three behaviors, three sets of scripts Yep, right and then go to your Mentor or your manager for contracts and get in the field. Get them in People, Do not get them behind the computer. They have to get in the field. Here is an email to introduce yourself to your entire database.

Here's how to put your database together so we can you know, work on a CRM and all that kind of stuff. And then here's the phone calling script that you're going to use after the email to say I'm now Selling Houses and I've done it. You're going to do open houses with a mentor you're gonna like. It was like literally just it was action, action, action, action action.

And and you know, did they have more success? Of course Did. Was there more reliant on the mentors? Of course. Did the managers wish that we were spending 17 days on legal? of course Oh, we got people selling houses. It all falls under like three buckets leads, training, support right? Let's figure out and teach them how to generate leads, teach them how to convert those leads right and then Provide support so they can create leverage in their business and do it on repeat, over and over and over again.

And don't take six months to put it together correct. Do it and then as you do it, adjust it. ready. What didn't work right? Change it.

Pivot. Okay, let's go back to to recruiting. So one of the questions is what are some of the most common challenges you're facing when recruiting agents and how do you address them? Now you're you're going to speak from coaching all these people. But I want you to go back to the archives of all the conversations you you know in two and a half years.

Recruited 250 agents and build a billion dollar business. Plus. So so don't tell me about the humanized clients and don't tell me about your aging clients. what were the biggest challenges you faced I Think that treating it like a normal interview process was the first big mistake I made right I treated everyone like a W-2 right? I didn't really I came from Zillow They taught me how to interview like people in a W-2 setting.

sales reps and stuff right when I treated it like that and it was a big, long drawn out process that was the first Federal mistake I made. Yeah, right. So figuring out really quickly how to conduct I coached a two-step interview process. That's what I developed.

That's what I worked. It works well. What is it? 15-minute phone screen I say 15 minutes I'm okay if they're less than a half hour right when I say half hour. they go for an hour and then a face-to-face interview right face to face.

I Think so many Brokers and team leaders try and hard close right. they want to sign on the spot I Take all the pressure off at the end of my face-to-face interview. It's great If all this sounds good. I'm going to send you over an offer letter, name another real estate team leader or broker owner that's sending out offer letters.

Yeah, I'm gonna send you an offer letter. If all that looks good, just reply to the email. I'll send you over a contract fifty percent of the time they're like, oh, just send it over now I'll sign it right now, right? The other half the time they went home, they thought about it for a little bit. 25 of that group went for it Right, right? but doing some something different and not treating it like a normal interview process.

yeah, really resulted if they interviewed with two or three other Brokers two or three of the Brokers tried to hard nose close them. So I'm heading to table sign on the contract I took all the pressure off. they're like oh I like that right? Yeah for me it was. Here's similar when I first managed I guess the you know the company that shall remain nameless had a list of here's your interview questions right? and six months in I'm like I am epically failing at this like wait a minute I'm doing something questions of people exactly as I read questions but it was realizing that I use it the dating analogy.

Sometimes it's fast and furious, sometimes it's not. but you have to ask really great questions and it has to be about them not about you. So I was selling to the to the recruit instead of serving that recruit the minute I made that shift. then it became so much easier because it was figure out what it is that they need.

What is their challenge right? The minute you can solve that problem based on your office, your brokerage or your team you have them go speak to. Emily's point you said something really important there which is selling to them, dating, no selling to them For our team leaders and broker owners and stuff that have operationalized and have a recruiter that's handling those calls. That recruiter should be your one of your best sales people right? Because that conversation is not. It's not someone applying for a role and going through this funnel.

it's a sales opportunity right? The best teams and brokerages and obviously myself. I think I'm a pretty decent sales person, right? I had success because I was good at that part, right? our teams and Brokers and stuff that operationalize it with a good sales person in place, they do an order of magnitude better. I Coached a young CEO when he started his new company uh, Gina Bifari now CEO of Home Services We we were the fastest organically grown real estate company in the history of real estate without buying a single person, right? Just a traditional typical split. but it was Monday through Friday Everybody was on the phone, but what we found was because it had some relationships in the marketplace and you know he had sold another business and been removed by four or five years.

but he still lived in the marketplace. he's still new people. The first wave was pretty easy, but the next wave required more he. I don't know if he came up with the questions or he you know he got him from somebody else but I had him on stage once and said give me your 18 questions and he just rattles them off.

Now these 18 questions which we'll just link up to this show uh basically it's more like hey, you know I Know there's a lot of things we can discuss about your real estate business, but I Just find in our culture that it's about like, do we like each other? like do We Vibe together exactly and Gina would say it differently but that's how I would interpret it and then he's like so I'd like to just ask you some questions about you. you know, their favorite person, the person they love to talk about the most in a good or bad way. So it's like tell me where you grew up, tell me about your earliest childhood memories, Tell me about some victories in your early life. Tell me about some you know upsets in your early life.

Tell me about the greatest thing you did professionally so far, talking about the biggest mistake you made. So it's just it's all these questions and it's like they're just dialoguing about themselves and and he's not asking it like reading the questions. He is looking at them like I want to know you conversation I know you. you're gonna like me.

It's J Abraham 101 He's like every person that loves me loves me because I asked him seven thousand questions and they talk about their most important. it's about themselves. It has to be about them. That part, right? There is so important because I think as team leaders, broker owners, and stuff, we're naturally probably talented salespeople.

and we think those things come intrinsically right, right? If you're operationalizing your business and starting to create leverage and hire a recruiter, they might not think like that purely without being taught that. So those 18 questions that's powerful because that teaches someone that's report building 101 right, they might not naturally do that. Take a second and tell the listener about human eyes. Good question.

So in growing our brokerage right, we figured out that the type of Avatar that was going to work really well for us. Which turns out there's all these different avatars to the course, right? Yes, uh. We discovered that there's a group of people that are looking online right when you go online and type in something like real estate brokerages hiring near me, right? Which is something that's searched pretty frequently. What indexes organically are all these different job boards? Yeah, right.

So I had a hunch that I wonder if I post on these things what will happen, right? This was back in August of 2020. the first year we did that, all I did was post on these websites and it generated a lot of people we're in. Orange County There's 38 000 licensed real estate agents in a 72 square mile County right? and so shoot fish in a barrel. But we realized that by posting on those sites, a lot of cool stuff was going to happen.

So being a team leader I operationalized it. hired a recruiter. She was responsible for sourcing qualifying and scheduling face-to-face interviews for me. She got a job offer in September of 2021 2022 to go work corporate at Disney I Made a decision to either spend a little bit of money up front and build out a product and software that would actually do her job or put another six thousand dollar a month salary on our P.

L. We made the decision to spend some money on the software. We started the company by accident. now we're in 26 States right? We've got about 70 customers we're working with.

Long story short, what it does is we Source candidates from all over the Internet we call qualify them using a two-step funnel validating that they have a real estate license in whichever state they're looking to practice and they're interested in speaking to someone about joining a team of brokerage. Once they pass validation, we let them schedule an interview directly into Team Leaders calendar or Broker's calendar. Yeah, so at a high level if you can pay attention to your calendar and pick up the phone when you're supposed to, we can set appointments for you with licensed real estate agents in your Market without making a a crazy promise. What is an expectation like I Talked to Mike Hickman on a coaching session several days ago and you know here is a shout out to Mike runs Seven Gables One of the most productive companies in all of Orange County When I met with Mike the very first time he said, you know we really don't have a culture of recruiting.

We we just seem to actually attract people that want to work with us right? And and I all stretch he had. He's a huge business. He's done extremely well coming from that market. Their reputation is that's like the Ivy League of: Orange County Real estate one thousand percent and he's got every player in the space, every discount broker in the space.

And I said, you know I Really think we should start the managers making some phone calls? We should start the basic Outreach But it wasn't until Humanized that all of a sudden he was like, wait a minute I just bought these three offices over here in La we can turn on over there and all of a sudden he's like so he said to me a couple days ago, shout out to you guys uh, I'm a net positive on agents and I've terminated a bunch of people that no longer match our criteria or quality and he's like I've never been that positive after that I've always been, he's like so I've I've been able to automate as one the way he describes it, one lead pillar. My managers do a bunch of other stuff, but now we have this one lead pillow that's bringing in 15, 14, 13 interviews. We don't hire everybody, we get two or three. We're pretty selective.

Yep, but for the person listening, like is that a real expectation if there a broker? Is that a realistic expectation If they're a team leader where we typically align, expectation is if we can deliver 10 scheduled interviews on a monthly basis. it's usually like five to seven more than our teams are producing now. Sure, right? So we level set expectation around 10 on a monthly basis. Yeah, most major Metro markets, we blow that out of the water, right? But we like to level some expectation on what's completely realistic, right? month after month? time after time.

So we line expectation around 10.. Hickman's in a great market, right? They're doing really well. I'm glad to hear that they're having success. Yes, very happy.

Yeah, very happy. Um, do you have anybody using it? I Do. Absolutely. We are live on the podcast.

Yeah, Absolutely. like actually this person. Do you really want to know? Yeah, Okay, so let's keep jamming you ready. So um, besides human eyes, what are the most effective ways to outreach and connect with potential agents new or experienced that are working today in this environment? So I think you mentioned it a minute ago.

It humanizes a great lead. Source Right legs on the table. right? You can't dance on a table with three legs. So I think that it's it's a wonderful lead source for that.

I Also, think that Co-op agents reverse survey your own agents, let them speak to how wonderful you are versus you tooting your own horn. Um, I think those are two key lead sources. and then depending on what you like, you know, as you know my little Italian grandmother when you skip to work, you don't work a day in your life. That's right.

So choose from the lead sources, choose ones that you're going to enjoy because otherwise you're not going to enjoy it and you're not going to be effective at it. So with the when we do recruiting road map, there's like 14 different lead sources. We talk about. pick the ones that you like and then lean in.

Just lean in right now and just give us like what are seven or eight of the ones that are maybe not so obvious. Um I think the reverse survey I Think that in a lot of cases people don't do that reverse or what is that For the person that's listening, it's like I get all those words. But what does it mean? Reverse survey is calling that Co-op agent as the team leader or the broker and asking them three questions. First, you're asking your agents the three questions.

Was it an ordinary transaction? Did my agent go above and beyond in any way And would you like to do another deal with this? Yeah, Ask the other agent and then about your agent. Yeah, yeah. and then say, by the way, do you want to know what they had to say about you And of course they say yes, yes and then you give them the answer and we should build that into human eyes. Would you like to do another deal Nine out of ten? Yeah, they gave you a nine.

Why? only because you're not with us? You left, They left, you just broke the ice. Yeah. And then you can move forward. Oh, that was a very important distinction.

Why did I get a nine? Only because you're not with us. So that's that's the opening. That's the easy one. Okay, so that's one I'll throw one out That has always been highly effective for my clients including the guy I just mentioned uh I would tell him Okay I want every one of your office managers to go to every event, every real estate, training, every function and he's like that's a lot of time for all my managers I want them to open house too? Well, let's go Events first because there's a strategy ready.

every training happening I Don't care who the speaker is Tom I'm loyal to you I said I Don't care. they're not going there for the training. They're going to identify agents that want training and you provide a lot of training. I Said So here's what they're going to do: Seminar starts at eight o'clock or summer starts at nine, right? So at eight o'clock you're there and what do you do? You're trying to identify two people you already know inside the room Chris Ben Forever How's it going man? Emily What's the good word? blah blah blah.

You only go while you're there. This is at three coffee meetings. Three coffee meetings. So you go.

you you have an hour before you find someone that's on your team that you love. Hey, Chris Who inside this room should I know? Oh my. God You got to get to know Idris There's two lead sources right there and your agents right? So now I'm walking over there. Hey oh man, you got to be of that blah blah.

We have this little great connection right man. Love to go a little further for you. What's the best time for us to get some coffee Man Like he keeps telling me, get get out of here. He keeps telling me everything about you, right? So boom Coffee mating.

Then sit through the first session at the break when everybody takes a break, walk around, hey man, what did you learn? What'd you like? What'd you learn? What'd you like? Oh my. God Tell me more about it and all you need is just another coffee meeting and then leave the seminar exactly and do that every single week. Well, when you have 14 managers doing this at all these different functions, it's just. it's one more approach to like.

there's no wrong way to do it. Emily and I were talking about that yesterday like the amount of work it takes to actually grow a team. Everyone has these aspirations like I want to grow up Breakneck Speed That sounds pretty cool to most people, right? The amount of work it takes to do That that. is that right there you want to talk about it energizes some people.

It also takes the juice out of some people, right? right? But don't be afraid to get in those rooms and do that stuff because that is just shotgun network marketing. We used to do the same thing on social media 100. My favorite thing to do was to get an agent to give a testimonial about The Brokerage and collaborate with them on Instagram because then their whole network sees it and our whole network sees it right? right? It's just shotgun network marketing over and over and over again. Even writing reviews for agents that did deals with your agency? Yeah, unsolicited, right? Whether it be their Google business page or whatever.

Such a pleasure doing business with you. They did this so the other thing and then they say wait a minute, this broker's loving me or team leaders love any more than mine is and and then it's a come list me call except I want to come work You know what? I Heard Lisa Chennady say earlier I was just downstairs talking to her and we were talking about all these different lines in the water she's got right? She was telling me that she's Circle Prospects agents. Basically right? right? Yes, right? And she'll leave a voicemail. And the reason she gets a call back She showed me a message that she'd gotten.

The reason I called you back is because you're the broker and you called me Correct! She gets a hundred recruiting agents Outsource call centers. The only reason she got a call back, she told me there's an agent here with her. The only reason they got a call back was because it was her that called right and I was like cool ringless voicemail dropped. Just crank that thing and like it operationalize it right? right? but that that Simple Touch from the team leader I think is so impactful.

So I'm gonna go old school. uh a fun one that we we used a lot and I won't name The Brokerage but you know they will know was we would identify like the number three, the number four, the number five agent in the office and we would send them a video right? a personal video via text. Hey! Chris Congrats on being number four inside the company I Want you to know that you're the only person receiving this video I was on your website I was looking at your reviews I was looking at your social you are a dream agent I'm not asking you to join my brokerage, but I would just love to be your spare tire. You know that thing in the back of your car that you hope you never need.

But every now and then something goes wrong and you're really happy that you have it. So I know you love your broker and I know you're kicking ass. but just know you have a fan over here who is watching everything you do and if I could just be your spare tire, it would mean the world to me. You don't have to reply to this and in case you're wondering, I sent this to no one else in your company who doesn't want to be loved on like and that you know Hamley on did you get a video from Tom Ferry no the worst thing that you're doing to everyone in the office.

but if you actually and you say I was on your website but I read this one review correct and I just thought to myself he is a dream. That is my kind of person. Think about disc assessment too with normal. if you've got five top agents in a brokerage, I would beg to argue that most of them are like high D High eyes you get a text message that says hey, congrats on being number four.

Their hair is on fire Exactly. You mean like not that I use that professionally when I work for my dad's company over and over again I would call people and I'd go Emily hey Tom at uh Mike Ferry's office. uh notice you were number two and you've been number two for two years in a row I think you called me on that one. oh I and first of all you would you would make people upset.

oh what do you mean I'm Number Two well you know. So I was looking at the MLS data and I showed that you're number two. You've been number two for like two years in a row now. I'm not saying this is for you, but we have an opportunity and I'm just going to like and just start this conversation.

I go and by the way, it's totally cool if you don't want to take advantage of this. Chris who's number three is my next call and I mean I was a devil like I would say that some people and they were just like okay tell me again like what's going on because it was like it was like a referral Network like so you can you can be the one or I'm gonna go to number three and if three doesn't do it I'm gonna go to number four and I would just pick apart Market by market and I'd get all the right people. There's something to be said about breaking the call Cycle Yes right People are so used to hi. this is insert name here with insert company name here.

how are you when I was at Zillow cold calling and I know this is com like complete throwback I would cold call and say hey this is Chris Giano's what's up right I'm not kidding I was 19 years old saying that stuff and people be like who wait what do I know you? yeah uh nothing. what's going on and then I completely knee-jerk reaction is gone and then I say Hey listen I've got 7603 Ford Frisco Texas is available? Yes, right? Are you looking to do more business in that market? But it breaks the pattern I love the same thing. Okay, ready next question. So um, how do you handle the situation of selling the value of your team but not overselling it? Who wants to go first? I don't think you sell it at all I know, but a lot of people do, but the sales people sell Correct.

But I think that I think that when you're showing, you're showing the value. yeah, you're not selling the value I think that that in itself is just a mindset thing. So give me an example of how I show the value versus sell the value. Well, I think that in a lot of cases, this is what we offer, right? I featured it's not about them, it has to be about them.

Okay, right? So I think first you're asking the questions, figuring out what that yeah point is that they need and then you're saying oh my gosh, Well, we do blank and we also do blank. So I think you have to stop selling it for a second, know what your value is, figure out what their pain point is right, and then be able to solve that pain point. Then you have them. Okay, I'm gonna go.

Uber tactical and then I'm gonna come to you I Think you open up your laptop and you say we average X100 leads or what? you know, whatever the number is every single so so what do you think is the right number of leads? Emily Based on your time, your schedule your life I mean How many? How many tours could you handle? How many showings could you handle like in a typical week or month? and I'm just like literally looking at all of our leads coming in I used to do that date. that was my party trick right? I think what ends up happening I'm going to speak specifically to like team leaders for a second right? A lot of us are trying to do like lead. Arbitrage now Lively Zillow Realtor.com I'm sorry gentleman. agents make money.

It's fun, right? I Think what ends up happening to Emily's point is people get in the habit of feature dumping. They're like I get leads from Zillow Realtor.com up city. Oh Joe they have this laundry list. I have all the leads I have all the leads I have solved your problem.

What's the general sentiment in the marketplace though about online leads? Do agents think online leads equal Commission checks Two out of 100 3 out of 100 4 out of five kickers. They think it's a waste of time so when you say that stuff, they don't really understand the context or the value, right? I always took the time we were heavily on Zillow Flex right? That was one of my primary catalysts for growth. I took the time to break it down and explain it right because a lot of the time if you say I have Zilla leads, they're like cool. I spend 500 bucks a month 10 years ago and I got nothing.

Yeah I'm like, let me tell you something. imagine a world where a consumer goes on Zillow and they go through this funnel and blah long drawn out process. but I basically tell them how that consumer gets to them on the phone. Yeah, and they're sitting there afterwards with their jaw on the floor like wait, wait, what? That's how that works I'm like, yeah, right? So I think if you're gonna try and explain features, talk about the how, not the what right? yeah, how a lead gets to them, what that all looks like because when you get to that point, then the agent's not leaving the conversation going.

I don't know where the value is here. They really understand it, right? So how not the what? Okay, what are the biggest objections agents are giving today? Not just just money, but we should talk money too. What are the biggest objections you guys are hearing and how are team leaders? and Brokers specifically overcoming them to get them to join? One of the things that I've heard quite frequently because we have a lot of customers obviously in the space now, right? So I hear a lot of I've got escrows open currently and I don't want to stand I don't want to leave and I think that's as simple as like slowing it down sometimes with the agent. that's a fear-driven objection, right? right? They're afraid they've got escrows open.

They're not going to get paid. How often does that actually happen right where they don't? They they have escrows open over here and teamly doesn't want to pay him. It doesn't happen very often. in the actuality, it might get drawn out a little bit.

but I think slowing down and really again explaining the how, not the what, right how. That's not really going to be a whole huge thing that's holding them up. So yeah, we've been hearing that one a lot. and is it something as simple as if I can ensure that you get 100 of your commission out of that transaction and you're able to move and start putting more in escrow? Sure, would that be of interest to you? The answer? A thousand percent.

And again. Now we we both know. you know, being in the industry for a long time, there are certain companies that just aren't and they're like, nope, right? So it's not saying every company but and and those brokerages have their right to do what they want to do, but there is some of those. but I think it is narrow, but it is one of the reasons why.

Yeah, 100 we're hearing it pretty frequently. I Think Okay, One thing comes to mind with that is like how you exit people is how you bring them in. Yes I Think it's really important to like if we're just talking industry as a whole. Yes, don't do that because your agents will hear that stuff by proxy and it just creates well.

If I leave I'm gonna get treated like this, right? right? So it almost leads to reasons to want to leave. Um, beyond that I Think something that's getting really big in in the spaces like commission splits and stuff, right? Money. But in the sense of it's like a race he's 10 years in. It's getting big in the space for my entire life.

Yes, let me hear phrase yes, what I mean in my naive brain is like uh, with team, team leaders and stuff I Feel like in some of these markets there's such a high concentration of really operationalized, big productive teams that it's like the only thing they can compete on is commission. Almost? Yes, right? So I Think not leading with that is like a reason why someone should move is the key to avoiding that objection, right? If all you can compete on is split, someone's always going to beat you right? There's always Space Race To the bottom Business: Those are the two things I Hear most frequently. What are you hearing I think the Um. escrows right things are under contract.

That's probably number one. I think number two that I'm hearing is they may have as especially if it's a team. They may have a good relationship with someone else that's on the team or if it's an office. Well, so and so covers for me when I go on vacation that type of thing.

So I think or they don't just refer to leaders feelings right? It's personal. Yeah, yeah, it's totally personal. This person's helped me out and done all these things for me. Um, so how do you? How do you? That sounds like more of a condition, not so much as an objection.

You know what? Should we interview your friend and have her all right? So let's let's flip it. What do you guys? So so as much as we're talking recruiting, right, I'm gonna be Devil's Advocate here. on the other side, there is natural attrition in the real estate industry. We went from 1.6 million agents.

Five months in, we had lost 60 000 Agents from the US Which means every three minutes and 47 seconds an agent left the business. I Love how you know that math. Since we started this podcast, 14 more people have left the business. Sorry to hear that.

Yeah, all right. I Listen I have empathy for anybody that got their license and sold a couple houses and now they've decided to transition out because it, you know, sure I only wish them well. Um, with that said, uh, many of the teams and many of the brokerages like I mentioned Mike Hickman Lisa channel is another example. Every broker I talk to is you look at um what? Mike Del Prete just put out and he said I'm just gonna rank every company based upon agent growth or agent decrease and you know I'm not going to name the companies that were decreased.

Have you seen it? You can go Google this and you see the companies that are growing. Um, attrition is a very real thing, right? How do you make? How do you maintain growth with attrition and not have an impact? The culture, people come, people go. Whether we like it's this, industry turns at two percent a month. Yeah, you have made like two percent a month.

They're just. they're gypsies. They're just moving. But I think we have to fall on the sword as an industry I think that that's unfortunate I Love that.

Yeah, Tell me more. Yeah. Emily and I were talking about this right? like I Think having clear-cut expectations is like the key to the first part of this right? Because people when they don't meet expectation, they don't want to hang out if they know they're not doing well right? So you've got I think there's two things There's like good churn, bad churn and preventable churn, right? Yes, the good churn is the people that don't meet expectations, exiting themselves right. The bad churn is you've got people that are producing that are leaving.

The key is understanding why, right? right? And a lot of the time from what I've seen, it's we see agents join brokerages for three primary things. Right leads, training, support. In that order we've pulled say that again, a little slower. Leads, training and support are the primary catalysts for change.

Why people are joining brokerages. We know that because we pulled 11 000 agents over the last 12 months, right? And that's what we see is the most common thing. subconsciously. those are conscious moves.

The subconscious thing is they join or leave a leader, right? Which is that it kind of plays into that fall on a sword thing, right? You can't tell someone hey, come work for me I'm awesome, right? Or hey, you should stay because I'm a good leader. Yeah, your actions speak that. So that falling on the sword thing I think is super important, especially right now. Yes, what did you mean by that I Think that as an it's unfortunate as an industry that we lose 86 whatever first five years that they're out of business.

I I Think that it goes back to the original conversation about the onboarding, about that first 90 days, making sure that they're getting into action, leaning into them, making sure that they're getting the support, the training in the field, so on and so forth. I Think we fail at that and that's unfortunate. So do we? I Mean let me let me counter that. so 32 million businesses in the United States Only like four percent of them do more than a million dollars a year in Revenue So the vast majority of them are startup companies.

most fail at 90 percent in the first 10 years, and some of them that remain after 10 years. Doesn't mean the Founder's making any money. It became a lifestyle business. So you know real estate is very much like that.

I Mean there's there's these rock star professionals that are just second to none and you know we love you. Keep up the good work. We love you. Keep up the good work.

And then there's people that just want to come in and sell a house now and then. Yeah, so so I I balance the maybe after three decades like it would be nice. Like one of one of my longtime friends, uh, shout out to Neil Schwartz Sold this company a couple years ago. He and his wife Debbie uh, you know, playing pickleball every day in Newport Beach Now like this beautiful retirement life.

Hot pickleball is super hot. Pickleball's hot everywhere. But yeah. so Neil Schwartz decided a long time ago back to Value culture.

you know He basically said, if you don't want to work, you're not for me and he's like, well, that's not really a sexy offer So instead he he basically created a theme and I'm paraphrasing here he said uh, we are a place where agents work like for instance, culture So he would say like, look, if you want to work well, what does work mean Well everybody here comes to the office every day. Everybody here kind of dresses for the show. Everybody here goes to every meeting, Everybody here shows up to the training, everybody here makes phone calls, everybody here serves past clients. Everybody here picks three lead pillars like that's just how we do it around here.

and if that's not your jam, that's okay, it's good on you. It's okay. Let me recommend somewhere else that you can go, right? Yeah, but but like it was, it was interesting to watch his company expand and then go into multiple markets in multiple cities. LA and Orange County with that Mantra and yeah I probably had to kiss a lot of frogs metaphorically to get there, but there was something to that because not that you know he is magical and mystical and had less attrition because everybody loses agents.

but but it was just apparent. like you kind of knew why they were leaving. I bet you there is some magic there right? I Think like building credibility as a leader like that I don't know Neil personally, but he sounds like a very credible leader, right? You would dig him. Yeah, he's a good guy creating credibility as a leader, especially in the real estate space.

It's not as simple as like educating the agents right? There's there's three degrees. I Think to build credibility, it's you. teach them something they don't know how to do. The most important part that people forget is you hold them accountable or create struck structure right? No one likes accountability, but structure.

structure. guardrails. Whatever it may be, You figure out a way for them to implement what you taught them and then they see result. They might push back a little bit, but they see result as a byproduct of your coaching and then guess what happens? Yeah, Credibility? Yeah.

I Want to run through a wall for that guy because he taught me something and pushed me to do it right. It's value. You have to show them value. Yeah, Yes.

All right. So rapid fire. Biggest recruiting mistake you've ever made and what you learn from it. One: I'm sure I'll go with my first one.

Uh, hiring people just on gut. I've done that. It didn't work. Yeah, Horrible yeah versus let's do a background check.

Let's call some people. let's get some resources. Let's like like let's oh they're a serial killer. Yeah, we probably should have done a background check.

I'm kidding. not kidding, but like so gut friend only. uh family just because anybody with a pulse right? initially it was, you know you have to hire x amount of people to hit the goal in this in this particular office and it was just give me somebody with a pulse and then it was like whoa, what did I do now a year later I have to let go of them right? right? So that was probably the biggest mistake was for me. Yeah, was at the beginning hiring anybody without it without digging in without a standard without a you know this is.

this is how we do it around here: I got a good one. So in the beginning when we were I was wearing all the hats right? So I was recruiter and sales manager and train all of it and I thought I was so busy that I didn't have to let people know that I wasn't interested in moving forward with them right? So I always say Protect Your reviews your Google reviews page is super important I interviewed someone, it wasn't a fit as a nice way to put it right. I had a 15-minute conversation, rushed off the phone, said hey, I'm going to circle up with the rest of our leadership team I'll get in touch. Never got in touch.

He wrote a very nice glowing Google review for us. yes, uh, talking about his experience I know some glowing wasn't that positive. No, it was horrible yes, right and called me out by name and it was a really yeah, poor experience. Lesson learned.

here is, if you're not going to move forward with someone, just send them an email and let them know. Yeah right. We have a template now inhumanized specifically for that. We coach all our customers like you screen someone and they're not a fit.

Just tell them because right? Learn from my pain, right? right? Thanks. But no thanks And here's another option for you. Correct Yes, my other one is uh, you know like like one chicken with a broken wing doesn't mean that became successful means you should hire every chicken with a broken wing Yeah right. Like the the the dime a dozen whatever you want to call it.

But like the number of times that my team said oh but I know she's living in her car but she's so Dynamic and I'm like are we gonna hire only people that live inside their car now that someone's gonna listen to me and say that is horrible, Fill in the blank with whatever the story was but suddenly like oh, we're only in the business of helping people in the world right? Like no, we're trying to tell everybody Earl Nightingale Once grabbed my father and my dad my dad said to Earl like so if you don't know we should Google Earl Nightingale I Started the motivational speaking industry right? Uh, so literally you might have watched him and says oh I'm just so frustrated you're like Mike with you know Mike what's wrong and he's like my parents won't listen to the music, my parents won't listen to the records, My my friends won't listen to your messages and like you you've completely changed my thinking and changed my life and I want everybody and he said we're not here to help the downtrodden. we are only here to help people that want to help themselves. and I remember my dad told the story a thousand times and he says I sat there and said I think my mentor and bosses told me that my parents and friends and family member are down because they won't listen but but the message was look if the horse is unwilling to go to the stall to get the food, you can't keep walking over and saying I'm gonna feed you You got to find people with some ambition they want to move forward like this is how we do it around here and like made that mistake way too many times I made that mistake too I couldn't The hardest leadership lesson was I wanted it for them more than they wanted it for themselves I think that was beating my head I Think as a leader we all go through that right? We want to save the world I Remember when we first started getting really cracking right? 50 60 agents I thought I was like I'm king of the world right? Yes I remember calling my broker Elmer right and I was really upset. one of the agents left and I was like borderline and I took it so personal right? I'm like I they left and it's my fault blah blah blah he said Chris you can't save the world Yeah, you can't save everyone and now anytime I Still take it personal right? Business is a deeply ingrained and I'm in what I'm doing when stuff happens like that.

I Just think back I'm like you can't save everyone right? And that's okay. It's part of the journey. you just learn from it. That's it is learning from it you right now listening you.

If you were sitting right here you would tell us three more stories. Correct! So we all have these stories. I Think the the lesson is I don't care what business I've ever invested in. Okay, what business I've ever run every SAS business, every sales business.

It's this simple. if your new people are more than the ones that are churning out, you are winning. Yep and the second this is here and this is here, your business is in trouble right? Like it's It's just that simple so you have to understand like people come and go like I tell people all the time to have my organization. I'm not gonna be your last CEO I Just want to be one of your favorites, right? Like you're here for a short amount of time on this planet.

I Would love you to be with me for a long time, but come contribute be a part of the experience and then if it's time for you to move on, move on. Thursday And that's okay. and that's okay. Like it's like that we are in, especially in today's environment.

We are in an environment where people are displacing themselves everywhere all the time and and too many people take it personally. I Think now more than ever with the state of the world that old saying that's I don't know how long it's been around, but it's not. It's not personal, it's business, right? I Think that is more important now than it's ever been, right? All right? So I think we cover just about every question because I'm looking at all of these. But but let's just let's summarize it: this world, this business, real estate, always and forever is about one thing.

Attracting Talent Attracting Talent Attracting Talent attracting Talent If you don't have enough attraction, we should publish the list of the 14 right? You could probably Google what are 14 different ways and it's probably already out there because I'm sure we did a Blog on it. Um, absolutely. check out Human Eyes. What's the website? www.humanize.io I Love that you started with www Yes, you didn't mean HTTP right? Yes, Um, and thank you for watching this.

and whether you're a team leader, whether you're you know, thinking about going into management or you're a leader, you're a senior leader. Maybe pass this along to a few people. There had to be six or seven nuggets inside here that you took away and remember ideas are meaningless unless we take action. So thank you thank you and thank you for watching the show.

We'll see on the next one. Thank you.