Hey, what's up everybody tom ferry in the house on the podcast, but guess what this actually isn't my podcast? Well, i guess it kind of is my podcast, because it's also carrie's podcast and my podcast carrie tell everybody, tell my listeners who you are and and what we're doing today and then i'll do the reverse sounds great. So i uh i'm excited to talk to you. Tom, because we we have so many lives that intersect, i'm surely entrepreneur, i'm an investor, i'm trying to build startup companies and a culture of entrepreneurship and innovation in socal and we're both here. We have a lot of intersections in that world as well as in the real estate world, and you know you, i love to bring really entrepreneurial, innovative and creative people onto my show.

That's who my listeners want to hear about, and so i wanted to talk to you and i think you know we we need to talk about what's going on in the real estate and the innovation around real estate world as well. So i figure we have plenty to talk about today, awesome man and for all my listeners, you know carrie and i connected you know through this sort of small world of you know orange county. You know startups, you know, there's there's not enough of it. Kerry's trying to personally solve that - and you know all my listeners know like i'm an investor in a lot of different companies, and i i am always inspired by entrepreneurs that have the courage to fight through the resistance and say you know what metaphorically screw the man.

I'm gon na go do my own thing and and i'm all about that, because i've done the same and i felt lots of people do it. So we don't really have an agenda, but i think we both kind of wrote down things that we should talk about. So so you know give give my listeners maybe a little context, how many uh, how many companies have you started and then how many companies have you now helped birth out of your your incubator here in oc. So in my career you know the funny thing is so i grew up in a family business that my dad sold a couple years ago.

It was 146 years old when he sold it, so he could retire and the reason i bring that up is because i i you know he didn't start it obviously uh. My grandfather did. He was really old, exactly uh. I think it probably aged him as all being an entrepreneur does but uh, but i you know, i grew up in that, and so i've always had this very owner mentality, yeah, and i separate that i mean i'm an entrepreneur through and through.

I started my first business when i was in high school and did that a number of times, but i i ended up going down this path where more of the companies i've been involved with, i haven't started, but i've joined early on yes and i've come in And i've said: look i wasn't here when this was a blank sheet of paper, but there's a spark here. I want to be part of this i'll all join i'll play whatever role you want i'll write, a check, because i want to back you and my involvement here and and i'm going to be an owner one way or the other and yeah. So that's been more of my career i've. Actually, i've started a couple companies, but i've done many more turns what i just described and at my core i love entrepreneurs like you were saying i am so inspired, but i also realize it's a team sport and ultimately, you want to put the best team on The field you can, and so one of the skills that i've developed in my career, because i don't feel like i'm actually good at anything and that's led me to have to go, find people who are really good at things.

I think you know my skill is that it's trying to convince them to join our team and really solve the problems of the day. Whatever that may be, and so i'll often take on the thorniest most unclear problem and say you know, let me go figure it out. I'm kind of that problem, solver figured out person and then once it gets going often is. When i get a little bit bored and say you know i'll, go find a board yeah i'll, find that manager i'll get them in they're, going to be better at it than me anyway, and then i'll go work on the next problem.

So that's been a lot of my last 20 plus years and what that finally led me to was hey there. There are a lot of entrepreneurs out there that need a lot more help than just money right. Our our startup system in many cases is saying: get your idea go, get a pitch deck pretend like you, have it all figured out and and ask for money, and you know most of the conversations i have. As i said, look i know you don't have it figured out, i'm fine with that you're, probably a little bit more comfortable, knowing that i'm fine with that, but let's have a conversation about how we're going to go figure it out and that we can probably do Better, if we do it together, and so that's really the hallmark of this whole studio concept is hey.

Let's give you more levers to pull to increase your your chance of success, because if i just give you money, then you have to go figure all this out on your own and that's frankly, it's pretty low leverage where, if you've got other people to support you Emotionally, to support you with a lot of experience and to help you shortcut through things that you frankly don't need to have to go, learn: okay, you're going to focus in the area of genius that you have anyway 100. I mean come on product marketing, uh. You know you could just stop at product for most, you know entrepreneurs because they most failed. There then you've got sales, then you've got comp and you've got team building.

Then you've got legal. I mean it's when you, when you talk about building a business. I think a lot of people think it's super glamorous and a lot of instagram. You know people make it they try and make it look glamorous, but i don't know about you.

Man like i i got started. You know straight out of high school one. You know one half semester at occ joined the family business and within five years you know struggled to sort of figure out who i was but the next ten. I ended up starting like eight different businesses with my dad and, and it was a a blessing because it was a safe environment.

If you would, we had some failures, we had some triggers. We had some deals that when i finally left gave me leverage to say hey, you know i'm going to leave with this. You can take that, like a a very you know, positive divorce, but then since then, i think i'm i think, i'm like 60 60. 61 ish, i was looking at um angel.co and i got to update it right.

I am fascinated by basically finding people like you with passion, patience, product people and a profit mindset and there's just not a lot of them that have that like for me, like that's my thesis of what i look for there's just not a lot of them. So you got experience, i got experience. This would be fun like what do you think? What do you think makes a good founder? Yes, maybe it's funny, i literally on linkedin yesterday, because i've been asked it like five times this week. What are the? What are the characteristics and yeah? I love your your five ps there.

That's amazing. I said it's right now for me, it's three that are the primary ones we look at, which is committed. They are like they they feel like. My purpose right now is to go.

Do this i have to do it so they're committed yeah and then for us, given that we really want to help them in a very entrenched meaningful way. I mean we are rolling up our sleeves and saying you're going to give us sweat, equity in your business. Yeah we're not looking to drain your cash, we're looking to make your cash go farther by putting more hands and feet and better people than you probably can afford or know, and so i need you to be super coachable and super collaborative yeah, and so those are Those are really my starting three is you're all in on this and then you're. You really realize that your best chance of winning is by growing as you go, and by working with others and you can get there, then you know, then then we start to look at okay.

Is this something we can get excited about number one and then number two do we feel like we can add a bunch of strategic value, and so we we, if it's you, know medical device. I have friends who are really really well versed in that it's not my area of expertise. It's not where my network is so i'm probably going to pass or refer them to somebody else who can help them, but we're pretty self-actualized. We feel like, if we're going to to coach and collaborate with founders, we need to really know where we're good and where we're not and be super vulnerable and open about that sort of the lead by example, and that that's what i learned growing up with my With my dad was the idea he's never going to ask anybody to do something he wasn't willing to do right right.

I just had a long time buddy of mine, uh local orange county guy david august, david heil uh. You know built a monster. You know our kids have played sports again, yeah right, just super great guy, and you know he had the same thing that you know you and i and he all shared in common, like we had these fathers with this unbelievable work ethic. Do the right thing.

You know pick up the piece of paper off the trash. You know off the ground. Don't let us don't ask anybody else to do it like that kind of uh. That kind of mindset i'm struggling to find that these days, though, with with some founders right.

So let me ask you this someone someone's listening right now and you know i've. I think i've. I think i've had like a thousand pitches. You know what i mean.

You know the the quick five minute pitch at a conference. Hey, i got this product. I got this idea, you got this crazy, you know uh reach in the marketplace. Can i tell you right to the full blown? You know: 15 page deck.

45. Second, video. Let me show you who my board is blah blah blah to now the new page that i'm just fascinated by was just the letter right like that's like the new thing right like it, just here's the letter right. Let me tell you what my thesis is right with with some numbers, but if they have swag you're into it, but in a thousand, i've only invested in like 60 61..

So so tell me like if someone's listening right now and they've got a great idea and they want to start their business. What are the mistakes to avoid in the early stage of a pitch sure i mean i think, for me, a big part of it is what i just said earlier, which is pretending like yeah, you have it all figured out, and i i'd much. Rather, we have one right now that we're about to close or start. However, you depend depending on how you think about it, yeah, so our team's in there already working we're about to put funding in and this guy is brilliant and really really strong technically, and he is one of the most humble coachable, guys and he'll admit.

I've done a little bit of research about this, but i'm definitely not expert, but we probably need to to find somebody who is. He he's very open to where the current warts are and when we first started talking to him. We pushed him in a few areas and he could have gone either way. He could have said you know what guys i can figure this out.

I don't need you yeah, he he just takes it in and he is just he is and, and you it makes me want to even spend that much more time, worse right, and so it's this whole thing like we can figure this out together because and you're Going to build a culture that is going to find a way, and so don't, let's not pretend i've been in so many of these businesses, because most of my life has not been as here. I've done a fair bit of angel investing and it's worked. Okay, but the ones where i've been in there i've been able to have a lot more positive traction, partly because it's like hey, let's get a. Let's get a group of smart people, let's create a culture of the ideas and the answers could come from anywhere and we're going to have a better chance of figuring it out, like don't put all that pressure on one person to have to go.

Do it all? It's actually it's you're going to have a bet. You get a diverse group around and i think that's that's where i get run into the biggest problems is hey i've been told by the world, i got to fake it till i make it. So i'm just going to keep telling you i have it all figured out, yes, and it is, and i mean i don't i don't have it all figured out. I don't even pretend to, but i know i have some pretty strongly held values and i think when you find people that are at least self-aware and willing to again be coached, be collaborative.

You got to shy because it is your point: it's not glamorous. It's really hard and my view is: let's just try to make it a little bit less hard. I got so there's a lot of insight here, for you know for my listeners, um, you might be saying like well. How does that you know i'm in mortgage or real estate or i'm running a team, or i got a brokerage or maybe i'm a startup right? Who knows? Maybe your insurance, i don't know um the thing you got to get is you know when you come into a pitch and you like? The assumption is like oh man, i got to be bulletproof.

I got to be perfect. Well, let me give you a heads up. This is my impression that person uh if you're, that good. Why are you standing in front of me? Why aren't you? Why aren't you up in silicon valley getting 5 8, 10 15, 20 million bucks from rivet, or somebody else you know general atlantic should want you right, like be a little more humble right, different from going on a listing presentation for my client.

You know my friends in the real estate business right. You need to be the authority, you know what you're doing, but when you're like trying to raise capital, i think there is something to the story with some swagger, but also that humility of hey, look, i'm looking for people that can help me build this thing that Want to be a part of this journey, i believe here's, the north star, you know carrie, do you believe that north star, like let's, go after this together and along the way, we're going to need all these amazing, talented people to get there right? It's but you're super early stage. I get a lot of people that are, like you know, uh the bridge loan to the series a and you know for everybody else out there. If you, you know, if you get that world like so, maybe they maybe they're at revenue, you know maybe they're 15 or 20 people.

You know they're, maybe they're burning through you know, 50 grand a month in reserves that are just burning, burn and burning, because they're still trying to figure out usually sales and marketing right product market fit like how is this working out um right right? So so we talked about sort of uh personality types by the way. Uh, do you know the company crystal knows yeah, so i'm an investor in that with drew love that company i followed the round uh or i think i was the bridge - drew if you're listening out to remind me this. I think i was the bridge right before salesforce and microsoft. Uh led the next round and i was like yeah like right: drew has passion.

I want to help people understand people i want to have people be more connected and more. You know in sync he's patient. He is patient, he's just hey man, we're just plodding along doing the right thing right. The product just keeps evolving and getting better he's.

Obviously, people first he's not a profitability yet right, but he's going to get there and when he gets there, it'll probably be an acquisition first right, but when he gets there game over yeah or at least he's you know, as i think, about the profitability one uh Most businesses have to get there right, but yeah there is this. You know people are astounded when you see businesses that are that aren't profitable, but if they are growing enterprise value in the marketplace exactly then that still is a at the end of the day. That's a profit to the key constituents which at that point, are the team and the investors yeah. It's funny i was thinking about.

I would be mindful i'm not going to name all the names, but one of one of the female founders that i i've worked with, and i think you and i have a similar approach like i. I have investing companies that i'm just stoked to be in the deal. You know what i mean. Somebody hey man, do you want to get in scott painter's new company? Yes, i do right like hey.

Do you want to get into slack? Yes, i do right like and you get into those deals. You have no influence you're, just stoked that you're in it. Then i've got a group that, like is through, like people like kelly perdue, who i think you know right. So he and craig who are awesome.

Moonshot capital right, you know that you just you get into a bunch of deals with them, and then i have that other group and they're split between i like the deal, but i'm i don't like it enough to put a lot of money into it, but like This it's kind of like this one's gon na fail but you're a winner. So i want to be a part of your next deal. You know what i mean sort of that mindset and then the smaller group is. I really want to be a part of this right, and maybe just because you know your business is be a part of it.

I got all this other stuff. I'm doing. I can only allocate so much time, but when i get into that spot, i'm thinking of this one, this one woman where i'm like look, you have an amazing product and you're trying to figure out revenue. I think the it's actually not about revenue.

It is only about market share and getting people to use your service because we're going to figure out revenue later. But if we're spending all of our time trying to collect a few shekels right to appease, maybe the next round, i think we're going to miss the opportunity and we killed it on that right. Forget the revenue, let's just get, let's get the product out and and now all of a sudden that thing's blowing up like crazy and that's great advice right i mean because i think you what we so there's a pattern. That's been very in silica valley.

There's a there's a type right, there's a pattern pretty well established now. The problem is that has been a self-fulfilling thing right. They just keep keep backing that same pattern, and i think a big part of what we need to do, particularly in southern california, is blow that up and say, look like. There are plenty of people who can be great entrepreneurs that can be great founders, great leaders and, in fact, the more diversity the better and we need to give them the confidence and the support to do that.

And so i look at you know just the first set of companies. We have a couple that i would say are sort of that classic pattern and we have several who are not, and that gives me great excitement because we get to say no, you you don't have to think small right. You don't have to worry about, for example, that couple shekels right now: let's go build a great product that makes people super excited and really engaged and happy that this problem is being solved and we'll figure it out. We will figure it out and we'll figure it out together, and i think when people don't come from that world, that often is maybe the biggest impediment.

Is they go? Okay like who is going to have my back? Who is going to support me through this and a big part of why we're doing what we're doing is we're just trying to create incremental supply, because this idea, especially at the early stages that people can just pick and anoint who should win? I think it's just broken and we have to actually help identify those people that have that grit. Have that commitment and want to go. Do it and then, in some cases, help them through the gauntlet, which often means the idea that they started with, is not likely. Where they're going to end up and no that's okay, but if we can get there in the second or third pivot and not the eighth yeah, then we've saved a lot of time.

A lot of strife, probably a lot of money. We've probably saved a lot of companies from dying, and my whole thing is. I think we can just greatly increase the odds of success, and you know what, if you create more successes, even if they're, not all billion dollar companies but they're, at least winning you're, going to produce a lot more confidence and a lot more people that are willing To do it again, because sometimes that first or second one fails and people just get bloodied and they go, i just don't have it in me again i mean i, i have the affliction there's nothing else. I can do yeah yeah, but but i think we we need to find more, that we we can welcome and say hey.

You know you did okay on that, one like just: let's do it again and this time you you can go for for even bigger or if that, maybe so does, does any of this does any of this, in your mind, relate to this this i mean it. I would say it's it's more of a cultural phenomenon today, maybe now it's probably a need - or maybe it's an itch - that more and more people want to scratch. But it's something that i was doing when i was in junior high in high school with side hustle businesses right whether it was like you know, mowing lawns or you know i almost i almost said selling weed just to be funny. But you know no, don't worry.

Mom right, but you know what i mean like so today, i tristan and brenda right who you know work with me right are extraordinary teammates. You know creative collaborators, brenda runs podcasts, but then brenda has her own podcast right and she's, building her own reach and then she's going to start selling swag and i'm you know i mean like she's, going to continue to do that. Tristan lives in a house today that he bought with his beautiful wife in orange county, while working with me - and you know, traveling all over the place - gets passionate about a thing called super 73 starts creating videos. Do you know this company by the way in orange county tristan, we got to hook up carrie with the guys from super 73.

I got to get them on my podcast. We're going to do that, but super 73 is this: just very hip: um, electric bike right and they're, like they're eight models in they're blowing up. They went primarily through right right but killing it through influencer marketing, youtube people specifically tristan's, like hey man. I can get a promo code and i can like sell bikes and make some money and he starts shooting video on something he's passionate about next.

You know he has enough money to go. Buy a house like that was a good side. Hustle. Is this relatable? This sort of founder craziness find the right product surround yourself with the right people.

You know for the for the even for a real estate agent. Is it relatable for sure it's all related, remember tom, like most of the businesses out there like the business i grew up in was a stable, steady retail business for a long long long time, yeah and most businesses should not ever take on the pressure uh of What we're trying to do with oc-4 right we're trying to find those zero to 50 00 to 100 million dollar companies in a few short years, and most don't have that as the core dna. They don't have that as even the opportunity that they've identified and that's okay right, and so i think this idea of multiple streams of income and hustles is more the reality today than ever before, and that could be the way you start to scratch that itch yeah And and maybe then that leads to you finding something that has breakthrough big opportunity, and so i would say that for a lot of people, that's a great place to even start yeah and this idea of hey, i'm i'm going for it and i'm going to build Some breakthrough technology, i mean you know you got a lot of medical device and biotech and other things here i mean you need scientists, you need ip. You need really good unless you're in that world that's going to be hard as far as building technology-based products and having good data.

Sometimes that's a little bit more approachable. You certainly i'm not a technologist. I've been around software for 25 years, so i'm i know enough to be dangerous. I've been around data for 25 years, so i know enough to be dangerous and often what we find again, why we want that coachbook collaborative founder is we're going to bring some insights to them.

That may say i thought i was going to build this, but if i do it this way - and i create this as an api that i could offer to all these companies - that's not what i was envisioning, but that could be the billion dollar idea. Yeah - and maybe i start here and i start to work toward that, and so we're trying to find places where we can say yes and unlock an opportunity. So people in some cases shouldn't feel the pressure that they've already got that yeah because that's not often uh an easy thing to get to in the first place. So i want to.

I want to just say this, and you know i'll probably you know, upset a few people. I don't think those people are entrepreneurs right. I think that they they have, i'm not dogging them right. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but like like this, this on you know gary vee is a you know pal, like any man, entrepreneurs, man, it's like it's the thing now and i watch all these people and like they're like fake and i'm not dogging it.

Like i think it's it, if you have a side hustle, that's awesome right. Make make your extra money, like i'm. Looking at my two right here like when, when tristan walked. In said, i have enough money to buy a house.

I was like i was lit up for him right. I mean like how many meetings would be just like. Oh man, and now i'm on them again like sell more of those bikes right, but i'm not talking those people. I want to be clear on my point: if you're doing that good on you, i love it.

Congratulations. I just want you to get that's very different from saying i'm leaving my job and i'm putting my ass on the line and i'm either going to raise money. Take my own cash pull money out of equity and start cold. That is a scary endeavor.

It is and - and i mean yeah - i totally agree - and i mean what i've seen and we aren't doing this yet in our studio. But there are other studios in in the country that will help with that regard and they'll say: hey: it's going to be really hard to convince your spouse that that's not terrifying or even possible yeah. So we'll give you a place to come here right, we'll even pay you a little bit to help you get off the ground, yeah and something way less because you still got to have that hunger and that drive, but at least you're not going to zero for An indefinite period of time, because you look at i mean i am all in - i am coming solely out of pocket into this thing. It's only money's only flowing one way and right and the way i get paid is in long-term equity.

That's i mean talk about scary right, like that's scary, that's right, that's right and so we've got ta. We have to add a lot of value and be really good at what we're doing. But we're saying we need more of this in the culture. We need more people to do it and if we're showing people, it's less hard, yeah there's more support.

We think we can get some of those people to come out and leave places like zillow, where you know our friend spencer was and - and you know, they're a ton of talent in a place like that here or google or other places who have great capability and Just need that spark and that support system. So that's that's. Okay. I want to say two things.

First, i don't wan na like for all the people, they're like well screw you fairy right, like you know, i got a side. Hustle thing. I think i think i'm that's like freelance work, i'm not dogging it, but, like freelance, is different from cutting off like burning the boats and start brenda, don't don't leave i i love you, don't leave it like, but she's like i'm, not leaving like brenda said, i'm Leaving tomorrow and i'm gon na go, do my podcast, i'm gon na grow. My thing, that's very different from freelance work and i'm not making freelance bad.

I think everybody should be if you're living in southern california, you with me it's probably a good idea. You with me just because the cost of living which, by the way total total side note, do you see the new tax laws proposed for southern california, which is going to make a lot of founders, leave proposing 16 everyone listening if you're from california they're proposing 16.7 State income tax 16.7: i think we're going to see a lot of people want to like found companies in arizona, utah, nevada, florida, wyoming, texas, yeah, we'll put the uh the senior team. There will have an office yeah, i mean it's just it is yeah people. The tax planning is one of those things that has always confounded me, because people will do incredibly uh heroic things to avoid it right.

Right, uh, you know it's, it's a cat, mouse game. So whatever they forecast yeah will not be what they get, because people and - and we i was having a conversation about that this morning - how how reliant california is on some of the uh wrong revenue streams right, dude, it's gon na be 50. For my my cpa, who, by the way big, shout out, shot a video on this and send it out which i'm a big fan of 54, like that's scary, for a founder, you with me, that's scary, for when you're at the end of the day when it's Owner discretionary income or dividends, or a small salary or no salary in the beginning, i don't know i think it's. I think it's going to fundamentally shift some of the culture of california's startup business.

I mean we've been we're the land of sunshine, and you know, like my my grandparents moved here, because they can make their dreams come true and uh. Look for the record. I love california, just i'm struggling though, with 54 of every profit dollar you make going to the you know, going to the state and fed. I don't care right, but you know it's the state thing anyway, freelance right.

They should have those side hustles because of things like that. It doesn't matter new york, california, wherever you are, but the other thing i want to say to people is um. I think that every person in the country who has this itch needs to spend some time on legal zoom. They need to dig in and start understanding like like what does it mean from the back end from the legal side? What are your thoughts on that? Because i think you know product people go.

Oh, my god. I got this killer idea and then i'm like. Are you prepared to deal with the legal ramifications? The financial ramifications? Do you have a good attorney and they're like what? What are your thoughts on that? So i absolutely believe you need a great attorney yeah. My concern is people spend far too much time worrying about those things at the wrong in the wrong order for sure, and so you know and partners.

I think there's two for two reasons: two reasons: yeah, i'm a big believer and you've got to get really clear about customer problem need for sure right make sure you have a clearly defined problem that you have that, and i we always talk about. Is this a problem worth solving yeah right? You may think it is yeah. You may think it is, but it may not be that important to other people and if it's not important to them, they're not going to pay you, then you know you so spending a ton of time on the customer problem need area and do you have a Novel solution that people are willing to pay you for and so focus on that area. First, before you start worrying about what i call company related things, and so i tend to think product first then business, meaning somebody will actually pay you for this product.

Now you have a business yeah, the company stuff can come later. I'm not saying ignore it all for sure. That's all i'm saying, but as far as do i have the perfect accountant, do i have the perfect uh attorney, so we we offer all those things and we say, look if you're spending time on it, you're not in your area of genius. This is a risk.

So we will take it on because we don't want you focused on so you need to have a way to check the boxes and if you do it really badly, it could kill you, but i this is all in this area of what i call necessary. Not strategic yeah and a lot of early founders can't distinguish the importance of certain decisions over others and so at times, because being in the ring trying to get customers trying to compete out there, like that's exhausting but as a founder, you've got to stay in that Ring and so you've got to be in that area that you're you're best equipped to be, and that's why you're starting this and so those things that take away from that time, we think are just putting your entire opportunity at risk. Do you so it's interesting! I'm uh um getting into a deal right now with some with some people as an investor they are like, they got the letter, they're going public, they have, they have no company yet and they're going public. What? What like i mean these are experienced like they've all been through it.

They like they know what they're doing they're doing the opposite of what we both would think in the typical entrepreneur. Startup like love, your product love, your client figured out. What's the problem, how do i solve it? Can i do it in a unique way? Can i market this, you know? Is it a good enough degree of separation between myself and somebody else right, like somebody likes a different flavor, whatever it is they're starting, the exact they're like we're gon na build the most insane team from legal finance, eight like everything and there's no revenue, and they Haven't even raised capital, are they are they doing it wrong, or are they doing it different with the thought of we're going to go much faster than everybody else, yeah in their area? I'm sure they have some ideas and, oh yeah, you know it's not like. It's not like a spat deal, which is not a blank chat.

So it's not a it's interesting so because you have those where it's you're, really marketing the team and then you're saying we got the team together. Once we get the capital, then we'll go find the business that can be the kernel that we can sort of build on top of or build around that you know the uh. I think the market tends to overvalue experienced teams, because it's the hey they've done it once they can do it again, partly because i look at it and i say: look 20 years ago, 30 years ago you know you, you and your team had an enterprise software Company, you ran the playbook, it worked, you could go, rinse repeat, do it again. Now the world is changing so fast, true and the distribution channels, the marketing channels.

These things are changing all the time i mean think about the the evolution of influencer marketing and what that has done. That did not even exist yeah. I'm like look at it. I'm looking at tristan right now, hello, super 73, hello, sorry, yeah, yeah, i'm gon na hire a cmo.

Who's, never had anything to do with influencer marketing and who's, not even on who's, not even on instagram, not even on social media. Exactly so, you go okay, uh! You know you can't run the same, plays no and expect so there there is that mix of really fresh new thinking and energy, which is what keeps driving the change forward mixed with some good values and and some amount of sense and pragmatism is often where i Feel, like you, have a a better cocktail of success. So can you you know, depending on the business, can you get the meetings? Does that reputation and credibility help absolutely it can help in certain, but you know do my kids care about the the person that did something 20 years ago? No, they don't, and if they are having a significant amount of influence over purchase decision or what's cool in a particular market, then you better figure out how to get to them and that may be best served by somebody who's their age, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a business is just fascinating, you know it's.

I mean you look at uh. What are these says? 30 million 30 million 100 000 businesses in the u.s, and if memory serves 96 of them do less than a million dollars a year in revenue. Right, like that's like that in and of itself is, and then you say, of that four percent, you know: what's it sort of you know, mid mid cap company 10 million dollars to 10 million to 1 billion, who made up that like 0 to 9 million 999 You're small 10 million to 1 billion you're a mid cat company, and then you know a billion and above you know, you're large, right, um and there's so many flavors and there's so many ways to do it. And yet we both know the failure rate is astronomical.

Right, you know it's it's bananas and yet we all keep trying. You know what i mean like it's just that that spirit right. I love the spirit um i don't know but yeah i mean i was. I was talking earlier to you, i think about like we.

If you look at the last 10 years, so since the financial crisis yeah, we are about a million companies short yeah, not having got start, it's like a hundred thousand per year, yeah that have not gotten started versus the prior 10 years. So it used to be about a half million a year. It's now about 400 000 a year, and it's going down right in a world where, to your point, it's easier than ever it's easier than ever to start a business. I can.

I can get a couple freelancers, i can do it on a phone exactly and yet it's not happening, and so you know, there's there's some really interesting activity. There's there's! For the first time ever in congress, we have two caucuses now on entrepreneurship, which i was shocked to learn, i know never previously existed. You'd think that would be a long-standing one. Yeah we haven't had apparently enough entrepreneurs - maybe too many lawyers in congress right and there now are active caucuses.

There's now active policy discussion about how do we spur more of this and partly because most innovation happens in young companies yeah, that's the reality right! You get to a certain size, particularly in the public markets. We have today. Wall street doesn't really love r d, because those don't pay off in the short term, so they start squeezing it by pressuring you start outsourcing to acquire and you know, buy new talent, aqua hires, all that stuff right and so the jobs aren't produced. Innovations don't come from, and so when you don't have those companies getting started a lot, less innovation actually happens.

A lot less net new job growth happens. If you look at right now, what's happening in covid. This is an epidemic situation where we have to figure out how to produce more companies yeah with more future jobs that, and so we have in some cases, we're gon na have skill issues matching up with opportunities, but we we've got a few, but those are new Company opportunities, doing training, businesses and skill building, and so i see a renaissance on the horizon. I'm telling you know it's as crazy as it seems.

No, i think we will figure this out, because it's now sort of recognition is the first step, and i think i think it's now. You know it is becoming more and more of a discussion where hey we've got to get behind this i mean it's a it's. A challenge here in our own backyard that we're not creating enough new companies to produce the right kinds of jobs. So my kids have something exciting to do when they they're ready to to build their professional life, and so yeah we're just trying to be the seedling to start more that activity and it's a confidence.

It's a confidence and a support issue, i think, is where it starts. I got ta say it's interesting like i just you know, maybe just because of my mentors and sort of you know. Like some people, you know some people have hobbies my hobbies like people and business and like i just i'm fascinated, but i could buy every possible business every. I would drive my kids around carrying you know all the streets and parts of town that we know, and i would say somebody owns that somebody manufactured that somebody built that cup see these pens.

Somebody made these pens like like it took it, took an entrepreneur, a crazy gal who said i can do it better. What if we had four colors in it right versus only one like just that spark right getting them to always think like that. But then i think also to your point about renaissance think about it. Man, like you, go back to the the study of business and some of the most memorable extraordinary brands were started in crisis right, i mean from early stuff facebo facebook right like, but throughout history.

Right in recessions, in depressions, because that's when finally people say enough is enough: i'm going to step up and do something so i love it man. I think i think the next 10 years are going to be extraordinary. You got ai on steroids, automation of everything, the entire on-demand economy. How can i get on the front screen of somebody's phone to to guess what the person that makes this desk because 10 years ago, if you wanted a desk that was high enough? What did you have to do? You put bricks right, you put blocks below it and somebody was like hey.

We could put a motor on that they can make it go up right. I mean think about that right. So the next thing i mean we're getting involved in a company where your phone will be sitting on that desk and it'll be charging wirelessly. While it's sitting on that right, i mean it work.

Of course, why don't we already have that? That's right. So those are. That's right, those are the things that i i think you know i haven't been in software. As long as i have, i look back at all these.

What i call missed opportunities where it was not particularly smart. It was doing workflow automation, it was removing the rote routine tasks, but it wasn't actually supplementing our human intelligence or getting smarter because of the collective - and i think you know the next phase of a lot of this is just about. Hey. You've got a million people using this thing.

Well, let's use the collective intelligence of all those people who are using this thing and make everybody smarter together, and i think, like that, is the next big wave that will frankly unlock human creativity and and our humanness. I think more than we can even imagine which that's what's super exciting too all right. So i got ta. I'm gon na.

Ask i'm gon na ask you tristan and brenda the same question. Will you put a nero link in your brain to know that you can tap into the collective power, accelerate your cognition and and literally have a memory on steroids carrie? Are you gon na do it, so i would say i will consider it, but won't be the first kind of like i'm, probably not gon na, be the first to get the covered vaccine. Yes, yeah yeah, yeah, tristan you gon na. Do it i'd have to ask my wife? That's a really good.

That's a good newlywed right there. That was a good move. Okay, i would totally go first. I would absolutely go first.

I mean what like, why not like i mean i'm a brain cognition like i'll. Do whatever it takes to just get a little edge you with me like just a little edge. I don't care what it is. Elon musk is leonardo da vinci meets walt disney with some jack welch in him.

Like i mean he is just he's insane and i love it, how do we find more people like that? I think people have to somehow they have to be freed of this system. That you know is telling i mean the matrix yeah i mean. Are you look at our education system, like the education system of today is built on a manufacturing economy a bit more worker bees? I mean we've been we've been pushing manufacturing out of this country for decades, yet we're still pretending like we manufacture. People like this doesn't make any sense, so we've got.

We have to free people of the the types of systems that they're stuck in, so that they can have the freedom and confidence to go for it and and feel like hey. A lot of this isn't going to work, but if i can even contribute a small piece to that that in the failure in the learning - that's that's where and we need to celebrate that. That is what you know. A grading system in a manufactured education doesn't do that.

How would you hey, how would you change you're, the you're, the president of the world tomorrow? How would you change the k through 12 and then how would you change college any three things, any three things you want. I've never asked anybody this question, but but i've read peter diamandis's thesis on this and i was fascinated by it sure i i i i am still trying to figure out. I mean i have three kids they're all very different and i am constantly trying to think about. Was i significant? Was it nature versus nurture? How much of that, and because i think it starts there - i mean you know you look at at other countries that are pushing people into the early on they're identifying.

This is your strength, we're going to try to amplify it and really push you into that area of specialization. I'm the opposite. I could not be more broad. I said, as i said earlier, yeah i'm not actually good at anything i feel like.

I have no skills. I have no skills right, so i mean i guess. The fact is that you know. Maybe that's my skills.

I have no skills uh, and so i i think it's it's like giving people the freedom and permission to go, explore to go, learn and that whatever combination of those things is what makes them unique and then getting uh. Really, i think, more open to the idea of they're gon na probably grow by teaching each other by you know you almost need more guides. You know i, i think the idea of almost completely flipping we need to be as humans. We need to be together.

So the only value i see in school is the socialization is the togetherness, but it may need to be completely flipped where yeah i'm getting lectured by on zoom by the smartest person in the world in that topic, not by somebody who's, several degrees removed from that And then my homework is the school where we wrestle with it and we almost the teacher, almost becomes the guy and they're the they're, the teaching assistant to just help with some of the socialization and the experimentation like that. That's how i at least at this stage, feel like if you completely flip it. Maybe that's uh, where you start, but but that's where i tend to go tom is i'll. Look at something and i'll go okay! How? How might we imagine the complete opposite and the complete opposite may not be the answer, but i'm in many cases i feel, like that's a good place to start, and then you work back toward what might be the right experiment.

Yeah yeah, i think of i think of just the word - exposure right and you're kind of like i think that young minds, the more they get exposed, the more they say, and especially like you know, different differences of race, religion, style, color shape size like show me Show me everything a so i have no fear of it right b, some more understanding of it, but then c to be able to see you know some. You know some asian woman from japan come in zoom or whatever and talk about you know asian culture as it relates to perfection right and then give us an example of you know the car industry or a hotel industry, and i might fall in love with hey. I want to be in the hotel business, you know what i mean whether i want to work at the front desk or i want to manage one one day right and then the next day bring in you know, someone from sports and entertainment and then the next Day, bring in someone who's a plumber who freaking loves, solving the problem and just expose me to everything. So i can say that looks interesting right versus like okay, memorize, the 54 presidents or whatever the number of the.

I don't even know the number of presidents in the u.s. How great is that you know what i mean. Why? Because siri does it for me like the memorization stuff? No there's so much of that we don't need it's it's noise yeah, and i want to be clear like for my friends that are watching. If you want to be a doctor, you want to be a lawyer.

You want to do like you want to be a scientist like i get it right, but it's probably more trade school. The other thing that i would love to see - and this is not my idea, i think, is actually peter diamandis or somebody else. I read this and i was like yes, i think every kid going into college should sign an agreement with the college that says. If i get this degree, i am very clear on a how much debt i'm gon na have and b what my financial life will.

Look like in four years based upon today's reality. So if you go on this path, you have no job prospects, no opportunities and you're gon na end up in sales right. I just think that would be just a such a beautiful thing to create a little more awareness around it, because otherwise, i think college for a lot of people's adult daycare right. Accountability on the on the universities, part and and on the kids part like i'll.

Take on that debt because i can do a comparison and maybe maybe they can't so maybe we need to show them and oh by the way you take on you, know hundred thousand dollars in debt. This is how long it's going to take you to pay it off right, especially if you take this career path or this education path and look, i got friends that, are you know in the police force you know mil. You know military. I got friends that are teachers right, like the whole spectrum of life's experience.

I just think having some consciousness around my choices. Early on is super important, so we know the the male brain doesn't even mature until you're 25 right. So what in the world do they think of putting themselves in debt with no plan stupid? I mean i've got three boys and i had an amazing college experience every day. Amazing - and i grew so much as a person and so, as my dad said when i left he said son, don't let your classes get in the way of your education and i took it to heart and had a great time, but the reality is.

I look at my my kids and i said like i want them to have this amazing growth experience, but the economics of that to your point: yeah are increasingly questionable, yeah and - and you have to figure out at some level how to resolve that, and so on. One hand of me: i'm going okay. What would it look like if, if, instead of paying 250 grand or whatever it could cost to go to a you know school like that and i'm still a few years away? What, if i just seated my kid with that as a start to a company and - and you know - is that going to give them an equivalent experience well, this day and age, it might give them a huge head start over a lot of people. It may not be the same socialization and other growth, but but i think we have to start really questioning um that the the inertia i mean.

I went to the same university that my great grandfather went to yeah, and so there were a lot of things. The same through multiple generations and i think, like most things in the world, there aren't that many things that stand that many generations yeah yeah yeah and by the way for the record, both my kids are in college. For my friends that are listening thinking, i'm anti-college! No, i'm not anti-college, but i did tell my boys uh be really clear. You need to graduate in this time period and - and i will be reviewing if i'm paying for it, i'm going to be reviewing what it is.

You're going to be passionate about and like what you're going to go for, and i'm like hey. What is great now about college too, by the way is, even though it's not huge, forget forget schools like babson right, the sister school of mit. That is only about the entrepreneurial experience, like that's such a one-off, but now seeing entrepreneurial courses and and lower level mba opportunities for kids that want to go in and maybe explore that maybe have an artistic side but understand like. I need to probably figure out this side.

If i, if i truly want to be an artist, it probably helps to understand a little business. I'm i'm moved by that. I just think they need more. What do you think about okay back on startups? What do you think about um this week in startups right? You know he has the is he isn't he on twitter he's the original at jason, right versus uh, jason, calcanis right versus jason, saster, jason right yeah, so i i think, he's great.