Thanks for having me today bro! You were like so helpful I learned so much it was just cool to see what you do today. We're in Provo and we're going to look at Provo Aurum and something else I Don't know what is the other Pleasant Valley like the one in California no that was Springvale Anyway, let's see what Utah has to offer for House Hack. We're super excited and there's a little smudge on that lens I'm gonna clean that off myself. Welcome to Provo Utah where the population is about 115 000, but this is crazy.

We haven't seen this before. The median income per capita income is only 15 970. Now that's probably because this is a college town, which would be good for the traditional form of house hacking, which House Hack may be open to as well in the future ends while we're here now. Poverty rate and I Don't know if that's because everybody in college is just deemed to be poor.

Uh, because the per capita income's so low, but the poverty rate is very high. It's above my traditional threshold. it's 24.6 Now we're here because it's also next to other cities that we want to visit like uh Orem Uh, but uh, we'll see if you get a lot of these sort of added on units out here because they're what older homes or early 19s or got it? I See yeah, here you got a whole nother. Oh wow, that's interesting I Think here's the problem with with: if the entire Market is student housing, there's really, no.

there's nobody upgrading the homes around you. Really right? And I mean you can kind of see that it's everything you're going to get is going to essentially be that sort of bare minimum upgrade. Potentially, you want to find neighborhoods if you're going to do room rentals in where you have a mix of, uh, homeowners who are living there willing to upgrade like I wonder or how long? I Mean this looks like it just happened. Still got the fresh cost.

This happened within the last few days, probably when they listed this. There probably wasn't a burn down home right next door to it. Uh, so yeah, and unfortunately burned down their garage too next door. It's a bummer for them, but it looks like at least they can still live there.

But uh wow. Geez, this is a good old Crusty one. Brand a brand new crusty one. It's unfortunate, but uh, you know the one thing that's actually nice about this.

Hopefully obviously nobody was injured. Um, but now you're going to get a brand new property right next to you on on this one. So you're actually now getting forced upgrading here. presumably unless of course they take the money and then they don't upgrade it so you don't have a guarantee of that.

Uh, sometimes people take the money, you leave it as a lot and sell it to somebody else. But eventually I would imagine somebody would build something new here so you'll be next to a new place. but then you've also got construction for a couple of years next to you on this one. That's something to pay attention to so far.

I Don't like Provo I'm always very transparent and about my Impressions and ideally you want to buy the worst house in the best neighborhoods and on the best streets. The problem is every house here is it seems is essentially room rental. So the reason the valuations go up is based on room rental cash flow. see: I Like being able to go into a market where you don't have everyone doing room rentals and then what you actually have is the potential upside of higher cash flow because it's not built into the market prices.

Everything's just a single family regular rental when it's a rental out there. and then if you decide to turn it into a room rental. great, You get higher cash flow. but out here that's already being priced into the price.

and I Don't think people are really motivated to upgrade homes out here because what are you going to put on a A A A? A nice, uh, curb appeal or something you know you're gonna do the front yard up. You're going to get more money for your room rental? No, it's not at all. It's not going to increase the rents at all. So why upgrade anything the Realtors told me Kevin won't like? Provo There's not a lot of long-term rental potential here as I understand he's the boss man though.

we gotta listen to the boss man. He wanted to see houses in Provo and so I said. You know what? let's show Kevin what he won't like and that's exactly what we're doing here. We are accomplishing our mission.

We Love Provo But for long-term rentals, not our Ideal Market Hey, by the way, in case you're wondering why I'm traveling for Real Estate It's to really become the best expert in all these various different markets. For Househack.com that's my real estate startup. We're currently raising money at a one-to-one valuation for accredited investors and if you invest before the months end and you get some extra bonus warrants which are kind of like call options to invest more in the future. If you want to don't have to learn more about that at the solicitation at Househack.com but come April or May here in 2023, we should be opening up this investment round to non-accredited investors through a reg A which will be very awesome and we hope you join us in.

We'll be raising money at a one-to-one valuation. Which means for every dollar we raise, that's the valuation of the company. So for example, if we raise 50 million dollars, the company is worth 50 million dollars. so you're really not suffering any kind of brand or company dilution.

This is really rare when you're looking at a startup. Uh, so we're super excited to be able to offer a company and Investments and shares into the company at that one-to-one valuation. Now, once that fundraise closes, if our cash flow projections go the way we're looking, we might not have to raise money again for quite a while. Maybe not even until we IPO at some point in the future and knock on wood.

We're really excited about the prospects for the company, so we'd love to have you aboard on the journey. Just go to Househack.com to learn more. I'd love to increase Cash Flow by doing some room rentals, but not here because you can't I don't think you can really build much Equity because zero. Well, I mean we build equity everywhere as as homes appreciate.

But I I Every property is a wedge deal. That means there's no wedge deal, you know? So I think that's the harder part is your buyer here is an investor who's looking at it going. What's the bare minimum I can do? Your buyer here is not a home value or a home buyer. So if your buyer is an investor, then the quality of the entire area is going to just continue to Decay Uh, and and that's that's riskier.

You want to be owning properties and uh, in areas where the majority of the people are home buyers and the reality is 65 of America owns their own home. So in most neighborhoods you're going to have mostly like six out of ten, seven out of ten, homes are going to be owned. Which is good. Uh, if you could get into a neighborhood where eight or nine out of every ten homes is owned, usually those are the most desirable areas.

They're the most desirable homes. They're the ones that appreciate the best. They're the ones that sell the fast. They rent the fast.

no, uh, long-term liquidity issues you have? Uh, tenants who stay longer here? What do you do? You go to college and you leave. So it's constant turnover. And not only do you have that constant term over turnover, but there's no incentive to to upgrade these properties because you're surrounded by uh, property owners who only care about room rentals and so so it's no surprise. Uh, there are very, very few properties that are upgraded out here.

so I don't know I I'm we might cancel anything else in Provo and just get to where we want to be. which is it? Aurum? Well, I don't know man. I don't trust the Zillow rental estimates and that's what he wrote on here. We gotta talk to a property manager I Mean come on man.

look at this dude. I got RVs I got covered up cars I got a ton of cars in the driveways I got trash over here I Get it. You know it's like the income's lower here, but it's also the type of tenant. Uh, so I'm a little worried about that RV's over here.

Lots of RVs here. All right, let's go. let's get to Orem Look I'm sorry. um I I don't even want to put that agent in the video I don't want to shout the agent out I don't want the agent anywhere in that video like he has no idea what he's doing.

That's one number two. There's no way where we would invest here. This is terrible man. I don't even want to be here I'm sorry I understand exactly why we're not investing in certain areas because people are also going to ask us.

You know from from house hack, house hack investors we have to be able to defend to institutions and Pension funds or whoever's buying our portfolios. we have to be able to defend why certain properties are in our portfolio And how can we do that if we haven't been to the areas we're not investing in? Oh, we've never been there. that's why I know we don't understand what if there's potential there now I know there's not haha. So and like I can explain that I I would say sorry but like I'm glad we did this.

No, this was planned. this is this is part of the design. We we have to see what doesn't work again so we can we can explain to investors we've been there. Here's why it doesn't work.

dude. if if Aurum is like this, I'm getting on the Jet and I'm going somewhere else I'll fly somewhere else. She switches houses like every semester. That's what I'm talking about.

Are you serious? You got you. Did you catch what you just said? She switches houses every semester. That's exactly, uh, like a landlord's worst freaking nightmare. like tenant screening.

Uh, there's probably no tenant screening out here. Honestly, because they have no out of high school. They or they just got off a mission. which is even worse.

Now they're bankrupt, They got nothing to their name and he runs into them. Oh my Gosh. Yeah. I mean the place is boarded up.

Uh I I mean it makes sense. There's a there's a reason why. uh, we generally select markets that have less than 14. Poverty and uh, um yeah.

I think this. This was. uh, this was good and now we're going to where's the first place that's in Orem Yeah. minutes away.

All right. Perfect. So is this: BYU Yeah, this looks nice. These are academics.

What did you call it game? The hell? Is that those over there of the Academia rooms? That is the Academia cafeteria? What? Yeah, You think they just ship us out without any training. Oh, so you have to get indoctrinated first. Pretty much so wait. you go to that building to learn how to search for six weeks.

Wow. so it's like a boot camp for Mormons. It literally is religious. Like You wake up at six.

You wake up like six A.m Or like seven. Oh I Get it, You wake up religiously at Six A.m Yeah. and then you have classes and then you have study and then it's pretty intense. Yeah, the Missionary Training Center that's pretty much what it is now you're a certified Frontline Mormon I Was curious why you picked Provo but I was like all right let's show when he went on.

now we know I'm so glad we didn't plan a whole day in Provo oh I was screw doing it I'd be like I wanted to be in Provo all day I was like oh gosh I'm gonna call an audible on this one. we're not saying in Provo hey you might not know this yet, but I've got some incredible programs on building your wealth. Link down below, especially when it comes to real estate investing. Zero to millionaire real estate.

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Provo Yeah, You know. Yeah, so what? Well on that note, how is this area different from from Provo Because wow, that's uh, I mean you basically you could only do room rentals over there, huh? That's it. So UVU they've got like 45 000 students. Okay, all right, BYU is like 35 000.

We got like 80 000 students like packed in this little area. Oh and honestly, yeah, yeah in Provo for the longest time it's starting to Branch out. Yeah, but all of them would live just in that south of Campus So uh, BYU all of them right under. it would live right in there.

Okay, and they used to actually started and we're like oh yeah, it makes sense All right I can't tell who I don't know who McKay is. yeah, he's somewhere in the car there. Yeah yeah yeah. I was just like are you sure I'm pretty sure not even Orem's gonna be like what I think you guys are looking for I think it's I think you're more like American Fork which is kind of up next.

okay up to like Lehigh so that sort of distance. okay I think so I mean you tell me exactly right and why would you say that you got a lot of tech? I mean Utah County We're kind of sandwiched between the the lake and you got the mountain here so we don't have a ton of land. We got a lot of Tech down here. You're just gonna get a lot more students because that's the college campus.

This is how it is. Yeah, yeah, um, but the further north you go, you're going to have yeah, a lot more residential stuff. and then you've got all the tech like Adobe Micron Texas Instruments that's all kind of Lehigh So yeah I yeah if that's where do you specialize out here, it's nice. I Would hate to be another place where it's like you can go two hours.

West East Here it's like north south. That's all we got to deal with. So where where would you invest if you were looking for longer term sort of. Um, single family, single family appreciation? You know something you can.

uh, little fixer-uppers you could build equity in? What? Where would you be focusing? It's really I mean you're not going to have like a massive difference in Utah County You will feel that difference though closer to Provo just because of the students. Like, you're going to get more of that. But honestly, anywhere in this area you've got, we don't have a lot of land here. Yeah, yeah, all that Tech is just packed in there.

Sure. Salt Lake County There's you know you've got a ton of space in Salt Lake County But down here we've appreciated I think quicker than Salt Lake because there's just nowhere to go. we're spilling out around the lake. so Eagle Mountain like it's pretty dead out there, but there's a lot of development.

A lot of people don't like that drive but you you do have a lot of us. all the new developments are out here because we don't have any so they're spilling out down they've talked about. I don't know if you've read into it. they have like the plans.

Hopefully they don't do it, but they have the plans to do like massive development on the lake. uh, fill in parts of the lake. We'll see what they're doing. Yeah, okay just to expand housing I Live in a Vineyard Uh, that's over here.

Okay, how does that compare to here? That is like Vineyard was the fastest growing city in the nation for like a period of like six months. Oh wow. okay. um and so all of it's kind of been new in the last seven years.

gotcha. So these are this is sort of newer construction out here and then what would you say? Uh I mean between let's say like Pleasant Grove and Oram and River Bottom where Where here are your probably best longer term Single family where you'd want to grow like a Pleasant Grove Linden Linden's kind of. It's very small, but it's a really nice areas in. Linden River Bottoms that's higher end stuff.

higher end over here by higher ending River Yeah, is that because it's on the way to on the way up the canyon? Um I Don't know if that's why it ended up being, but that's just how it is right now. A lot larger, lots, a lot more expensive homes out there and we're not too far from there. No no. okay.

I mean don't get me wrong, Aurum has a lot of crazy Pockets where it's like awesome. like we're in neighborhoods like this and all sudden you go to the next street. it's like oh my gosh, that's like a two million dollar house compared to like a hundred thousand dollar house and they're back. All of a sudden you're back into this neighborhood and then back into the more expenses.

that's very hit and miss. Um I Don't know if the college campuses had anything to do with that over the years that that's developed. got it? But I would say yeah, you're probably Pleasant Grove up to Lehigh is a lot more. okay, more.

I Think of what you guys are. Got it? Yeah, so I mean like out here would you rent these things out long term usually? or is it all rooms out here as well? kind of like people still do it I don't I'm picky on my numbers. Okay so tell me about what do you I like like I don't get excited unless it's 15 cash on cash return okay um and where are you getting that some of my stuff I don't know what's going to make it to the final cut. a lot of my stuff I like it in Provo where I I like for something like this I would probably wall this off if I can make another unit down there great like I've got I was telling the K I was like I've got like a 1400 square foot unit that otherwise that Max I'd be able to get 18 17 maybe I don't know exactly I get 2 700 bucks a month sure because it's two years each room can almost be chopped up basically I don't even do by the room I love my my perfect demographic that I like is like young married couples.

okay and I try to hit the two bed one bath units I see two bedroom one best. so like in multi-family or yeah it's just basement apartment type stuff. It's very prevalent City obviously doesn't like that they would you know? Yeah exactly. So there is some risk if you're doing like massive.

Yeah, yeah. Big fun. That's not what you want to hit exactly. The returns are amazing.

Sure, sure. Um, so that's that's what. I like the rest of the stuff. yeah I don't know what kind of numbers you like to hit, but so.

but I mean you're not only doing basements. What do you do with the top of the Union unit? Yeah, yeah. okay, so you're looking at hey, where can you maybe buy a single and then convert the basement basically into another unit? A lot of searches I'll do I'll try to find out where a single family home that's just like hey basement walkout. it's it's put in there.

it's a guy's been walking out of my cool. I Just got to go in. I Gotta figure out. Okay, here's my Plumbing yeah I Can go wall this off downward go.

This is a neighborhood where I know we can get away with it. This is not in every way. we can get away with that. So I said just because the neighbors report you or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, got it. Yeah. uh. so that's so.

room rental is a strategy. The Basement: I've seen that a lot in Utah Because you have the basement. there's a ton, especially around the college campuses. Like other places, you do see it, but not like you see it around the college.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. everybody is doing it now. What about? uh, fixers? How many how many fixers do you see usually come up? uh and I like working with wholesalers? Yeah, and um I feel like nobody hits? Utah County Very well. yeah there's a few that do.

Utah County I wholesalers or buyers wholesalers. Okay, like the amount of wholesale deals I see come through are probably like one to eight up in so one for Utah County to every eight that I see up in like Salt Lake County there's just more up there and I think more people focus on that. Oh wow. okay um but I mean there's still stuff down here that's kind of beat up.

Sure you guys picked an awesome week because this is literally the lowest inventory week of our entire city. This is the week that we have the lowest. Yeah, it was just like I was like McKay I Looked at all 24 houses on the market so you're seeing the two that I would have said are more beat up. Yeah yeah.

so they don't have to be perfectly beat up right now. You know we're we're still six months or so. four to six months starting our buys. Yeah uh, it's really the idea is trying to understand.

Okay where where are the opportunities to invest? and it seems like if you want to you could go higher cash flow with like the basements or room rentals. But one of the things I'm noticing is for example in Provo it seems like the prices already reflect that you can chop it up and rent out so many different groups. Yeah, there's a lot of competition in there. so I used to be uh, one of the top I don't do it anymore because just crazy competitive.

but I had a few of the zip codes I was the top agent on Zillow in those zip codes. yeah and daily it was always a call from some alumni. I I want to invest over there? I've got a kid going to school I'm going to put them I'm going to own it, have them rent out to their friends, have them in there or hey when we come visit. I'm just gonna have a place to stay there so you get a lot of that limit.

We kind of a unique demographic with our with the you know local religion here it's that makes sense. There's a lot of people are like we've lived out of state I want to come back home now and so I've had so many people like just call to move back home. oh wow so you actually are getting people flowing in. It's not just here for school and then in California you guys have added a lot but yeah but no I like I was just uh with some guys from Illinois Chicago yesterday and like they're moving back to like specifically they actually want some stuff.

We were looking at some stuff in Orem Okay, but they were. They wanted some stuff for skiing, but I've had a handful of people like hey, my parents like a lot of past client. um, a lot of them are students. Yeah, so like my mom, my dad, they're wanting to move back.

they want to move out. They want to have a Utah house to come visit for the BYU games and then they can manage it themselves as well because they're just doing one of them because it's just their son or daughter or whatever living there. Yep, yeah, yeah, because I imagine scaling Property Management with dozens of students. uh, potentially and on each block, it gets a little bit more challenging.

You'll have a lot more shift and turnover. at least now. they do a lot more year contracts. In the past, it used to be just by the semester okay and again.

Honestly, that's a big reason why. I'm like I don't want to do single students personally like yeah sure I can make more money, but the headache, the turnover. oh my. God the turnover.

Yeah. I mean the management intensity too. My gosh. so you found that doing the the top and the bottom that was.

Is it management? okay, neutral. I'm okay with that. I Love that usually Jack and Sally young married couple are not looking to mess up their life too early. Come in, they're usually great.

the mom and dad are usually you know. I've rarely had issues with my tenants. Got it really so I Like they come in and it's and where would you buy those? I like them all around College around the college campus so is that somewhat around here as well I was telling McKay I was like I've got a vacant unit right now I was like I could if you I don't know exactly what you're trying to Target but if you want, it's like I can show you this is exactly what I like to do because I'd love to see exactly what you do. Yeah, let's do that.

I'll do I'll do a super quick walk around here and then let's go check that out because I'm a big fan of understanding. Okay, where you know you guys know how to make money in your Market better than I do because I've never been here before Ethan you know? So what? Uh yeah? I'd love to see that. Okay, so so this uh I mean is this your typical kind of lot size out here? It seems like what 10K square feet or something like that? they add it on out here you're about. Yeah, they're about I mean there's a lot that's even less than that? Sure, Um, gosh, because this is what? 0.22 acres and you're you can be a lot of like point one, twos, one twos? Really? I mean now you're down to like five six thousand square feet if you're If you're talking like new development then we have some houses that is like literally go two feet off the house around the whole thing and that's your.

That's your lot. but like older stuff like that, you'll get larger. Lots Uh other things? Yeah, not not as much. Yeah Is most of your new construction out where you're living right now? Vineyard Vineyard There has been a lot of new construction.

Like I said, it used to be nothing. We went from like 500 residents to like 30 000 residents in a matter of a few years and there was just a ton out there. Do you get a lot of slippers out here? Yeah we have. There's tons I Mean it got like Clippers everywhere.

Flippers everywhere. but I feel like maybe it's the same in California but I feel like in the last five years like wholesalers and flippers just started coming out of the Woodworks Yeah crazy. Oh I mean you could buy anything, wait two months and it was worth 50 years? Yeah, yeah, you're good. It was a good time for a lot of people you could.

You could be very, not very proficient and make some money for sure. Now it's it's gotten a little harder. How has the market been for you guys? Just the last line? like a year? Really? Ah, we've come down. We've come down a good amount.

Um yeah. I mean I'm guessing the same. It just kind of sucks with the rates like we went from I almost take I I love I Love like the 40 offer competition like I loved that. Yeah yeah.

I would take that well as an agent. That's fun man. I would take that over this? Yeah, yeah, that was just like we're not competing with each other anymore. We're competing with the rates in the FED Yeah, yes, not a whole lot we can do other than twiddle our sums until just get through it.

Basically seller that can't get through it. We take the opportunity or not. Yeah, what about rents? Do you see any downward pressure on those out here? Not yet. but I was watching your video on that and I'm like I'm curious to know when he thinks that's gonna roll over.

I have uh, like four turnovers for my stuff right now. So I'm gonna see this next month or so what what that's going to look like. but um, typically not. I haven't seen? yeah, usually.

no, not at all. Yeah, yeah, so it's it's just it'll be interesting to see if we see it now just because of, uh, you know the economy every cycle. Well, nobody likes the Downs part. but well, we got a lot of tech here so and there has been a lot of tech layoff right? so.

but I haven't seen that been wide enough to like actually change anything. Change anything on that like I don't think it's almost like a little bit of weeding I mean I hate using that in reference to people you know, because people stuff. but it's what it is. business corporate weeding.

basically I'm constantly asking people like that I know past clients like hey, how'd it go and they're like oh yeah, there's a bunch of layoffs here, but no, none of my department like I'm good. So yeah, okay, maybe I'm just not connected to the people that are getting laid off where where? yeah, where is your uh uh, investment? So the most recent one, the one that you wanted to show us right here. so we're right here. Okay, so that's towards Provo a little closer.

eight minutes. Yep, okay, it's literally On the Border oh, it's on the border. oh I got you? I got you? okay I like it. I'm right between both campuses I'm like almost equidistant between both campuses.

not that I picked it for that. Okay, I was gonna ask that dude. but you do like being somewhat close to the universities because you're trying to find uh I know my renter like I don't even have a second like this is bad and I like I don't know what's going to make it in the cut here, but there's a lot of times where I'm like I don't even have to screen you guys just oh wow. come on in.

Like here. Really? your parents live up in Alpine is a nicer area and I'm like yeah, come on in like oh wow. save save your 25 for the for the credits. The credit screening I might come in like it makes it super easy if I was up further north.

I'm gonna get like different people all the time and yeah, obviously I wouldn't do that but it's very easy to see like oh yeah, they're going to school. they got it. Here's your I know exactly what you're studying like it's not a big deal. Where's uh, where's Alpine yeah? Alpine's up in the uh, right up here.

Oh there it is. Okay, So above. uh Pleasant Grove basically. Oh, even past Lehigh a little bit.

Yeah Lehigh Highland So is that it's supposed to be pretty expensive? Then there's some more expensive homes. You know it's There's not. Everything out there is incredibly expensive, but you're just further removed from the freeway. Again, everything here is like you're on.

you're on the freeway. Yeah, yeah, like it's very quickly. Like you said, just north south. It's simple.

yeah, all right. yeah. so for people making money out here, you're either renting rooms, you're renting like a single family as a duplex basically potentially or um, or maybe you're flipping. where would the long-term rentals be? You'd say that'd be more Lehigh or anywhere.

I Don't like those numbers? Yeah, yeah, the numbers are harder. Yeah, um yeah, but yeah I mean honestly, anything is going to rent like anything's gonna rent. Sure, just not. I mean there's competition.

There's not that much competition. like what about if you go to Alpine uh you're probably a little bit further because you're a little bit further away from the freeway. Yeah, like I think that's a big Drive where we can get to basically anywhere you want. like the majority of Utah's population is literally in that like hour and a half stretch between where we're at now and like up north.

Sure. Salt Lake Yeah yeah. Salt Lake From here to Ogden that's it. there's there's Utah basically so closer to the freeway obviously will always be I Don't know if unless I do better, but it's just you're not going to sit as long if if you're overpriced on your rent.

Um, but I mean you're gonna find I haven't seen anybody as like I can't get this thing rented and all because most people are commuting to, uh, wherever along and they just want to hop on the highway. Yep, yep. so but again, if you're talking like I want more like I don't want to have like a bunch of six kids constantly like trying to rent my place out. You're gonna get that way more here than you would up north.

interesting like in the northern Utah Ah got it. You get the applications that are like Hey we're a group of six people I See yeah, it's like can I can me and four of my buddies come and rent the place and you know it's like yeah? Yeah Okay, all right very well let's let's go see what you're doing. Hey man, thank you so much for coming out and shadowing. Shout yourself out! Tell everyone about you and your YouTube channel your business, what and all the creative things you do especially the creative business ownership.

Yeah so man, thanks for having me today bro! You were like so helpful I learned so much it was just cool to see what you do. Um but yeah. so I'm Abraham Gray I have my own YouTube channel Abraham Gray I do a ton of uh, business buying I do a ton of real estate I own hundreds of properties and I do yeah, some business masterminds a few times a year, but if you follow me on YouTube Abraham Gray you'll find out everything I make a few videos every single week that talk about how to buy businesses with no money, how to do real estate with no money, how to, you know, build rapport, how to, You know better your life. So definitely check it out.

That's awesome! Thank you so much for coming out here and enjoy your speaking event this weekend because that's this week. Yeah, so it's gonna be a blast. That's awesome! Good luck man! Yeah, thanks for being here. So this was a duplex.

Okay yeah, interesting scenario. Yeah, this side does not have a basement. that one did um currently and I'm a little low on mine right now, but um 1450, 1450 and 1450. Oh wow, Everything 14.50 Okay yeah.

I have some clients that have the same like this is a very common I mean that's the same duplex? that's the same duplex. that's the same people? Yeah sure, there's all very common layout. They have some tenants just up here a couple blocks that getting 1800 for the same space and I'll show you what that space looks like. this one.

this is like my bread and butter type. It's the two bed, one bath I get young married couple in and this one's also nicer than some of the other ones. So I mean the two inch faux wood you've got the and it was like a three and a half inch base. It's nice craftsman style.

I love the floor color you chose. Yeah this is great. Yeah, simple. Yeah, this is really easy.

Yep yeah yeah you did a good job. I think it looks perfect I did I did more than I should have than I knew it but I was like whatever. No I mean this is great. Yeah so I have some that are like a lot less like I have some.

there's a basement unit I have down in Provo not not a super awesome I just bought these too. they're just this. you just stick up there. the Tans put that on I can't Yeah, yeah, they just I mean okay, yeah.

I I figured I'd leave it for me as well. Yeah, that's interesting. They just stuck it up there. Um yeah.

it was like a two pack for like 14 bucks and you could just peel off the back, stick it on and then you have a paper towel hole. I mean it was holding good. so I was like I'm not gonna take it off I guess it fits. It works.

Yeah, Wow. uh sorry. Okay, go ahead with foyers. Um, so I was just saying the basement.

you know. I got one in Provo Uh, not nearly as nice as this one. but basement unit? Yeah, literally. gosh, maybe 75 of this size.

They even last a lot less than this one actually. Yeah, um, a lot tighter. and I'm still getting like 12.50 out of that basement. Wow on that one.

Yeah, so okay, I don't know. and how long did the tennis usually stay? um, mine. Typically a year. okay, sometimes a little more.

I've had people that stay longer, right? So, but usually every year they're still going to like Camp the BYU and everything. Or you got it. And honestly, I'm okay with that because every time I get a turn it I live here close by I Get it? I'm constantly up on my rents typically. Well, now you're raising the rent back to Market Yep, in an appreciating Market In fact, a lot of mine I actually encourage I'm like hey, if you need to leave early, let me know.

Just give me enough heads up notice. Yeah, and then as long as I have no days of vacancy because I just know automatically, it's like boom I get my next rent. there's a non-refundable portion of the deposit anyway that I get to keep. Yeah.

so I'm like cool I constantly get to stay up on my rents except to deal with it. Yeah, and so what about um, well yeah. and because you're doing two and ones, you don't have a lot of fix-up in between. really, you shouldn't have much of that at all sometimes I was like this is this is good enough I don't? Yeah, nothing.

Okay, next person is wow. uh how about uh, like uh, any tenant issues you ever run into just lights or no pay days or evictions or what's that like that here? Very few few out here, very few. Wow. like I said, they're usually Jack and Jill BYU UVU couple and then usually not looking to mess things up in their life this early like they're trying to actively pursue like a career.

Be good, blah blah yeah yeah yeah and it's I've had very I've had one two I think two addictions or no I've no I have no evictions. just two two people that were just like okay and one of them was like hey, we have to leave Actually both told me like hey, we have to leave early, we can't make the payment and both of them were like within the last month of their tenancy. Oh and it's just disappeared Basically yeah, self-evicted self-evicted and not not much issue there. So I don't know, it's been pretty good.

So and that's why I do like I do like this area for that. I mean I've got handful of clients that I helped Buy in Salt Lake and I bet was up in Ogden later earlier this week and I don't know different renter demographic in Ogden so tell me about that. Why are they a different type of renters? Uh, they live more up there. So okay so the renter demographic yeah yeah I don't know.

Ogden Ogden is just kind of like the a cheaper City like pricing up there is a lot cheaper. um I I cheaper than here. a lot cheaper than here. Wow.

Okay, I'm trying to think of like how to make it put it nicely. like Ogden is kind of like a little bit more like they're going to offend people, but like more like the armpit of Utah I Feel like it's just there's good places in Ogden but there's definitely a lot of places in there. It's just like this is kind of like a little bit more run down, got it? So you couldn't universally say like oh, great area basically yeah I mean I don't know if you could say that about any area I guess for sure more Ogden than I would say down here. Okay, but I mean like if you compare it to say uh and I I don't know that you sell there.

but like Sugar House for example, in Salt Lake Salt Lake up around Salt Lake is some of that the the Eastern side of Salt Lake seems to be pretty stable. Oh, that's a nice area. Yeah, so how does Ogden compare to that? No, I mean completely different. You've you've got way more money Sugar House Okay, yeah, so you're I've never personally had tenants in Sugarhouse so I couldn't tell you like how that is versus Ogden tenants.

but uh, I would imagine I have a lot less issue in Sugarhouse than I would in Ogden apparently depending where I'm at. Yeah, and that's even despite the fact that you don't have colleges there, but it's just a different type of town. I mean there is one up in Ogden and they have, but it's I don't can't remember how many it's so it's Weber State and I don't remember how many how big their student body is. But down here it's like UVU has is the highest student-bodied campus in Utah.

Okay, and I think Utah is like second or uh, BYU is Utah BYU is second or third on that list. So we have just so many more students than they have there or even up at Utah State Got it? And how about like uh St George like uh, let's say there's been a handful of people I know, like to go down, um down there? Is that just sort of temporary? You get a lot more like Snowbird type I Feel like I mean there's still a lot of people down there? but I mean the college campus isn't If you're talking about college campus like they're not anywhere near the size we are up here God um I've run a few numbers over there over the years. Yeah, look at a few like vacation rentals in uh in St George But sure, they have so many restrictions on like short-term stuff that I'm just like I don't want to play that. do you do any airbnbs or I'm actually gonna be kind of burning this one to it.

Oh, we're gonna slowly start shifting them over because I'm like this one's nice enough. Yeah, my neighbor has like 15 airbnbs out around and he's just like oh yeah, just change that over. you'll get you'll probably get x amount on it. So I was like, you know what? that sounds good.

You're seeing an excess supply of airbnbs right now at all and not really. Um, he so I I don't I don't typically do I run all my numbers based on long-term rents and if that works then I'm good too. That's a safe way to do it. Play around I don't mess around with my numbers.

Um, but based on things he's told me, he's like yeah, it's kind of getting there, but it's moving more to it seems like towards more unique stays more yeah experience days sure than like a house in the middle of a neighborhood. I need a place to stay, right? Okay, so uh, does that make you nervous at all then about Airbnb Nets not really because furnish it. Yeah, it's okay if I have to furnish it. um I think at the end of the day I'll still I'll probably worst case I'll still at least break even on it compared to what I would have gotten long-term rent anyway and I just know the upkeep's gonna be better on the Airbnb the upkeeping will be better I imagine so if I got a cleaner in here like I said I I don't I haven't done any of I have clients that do it.

Sure they do well I just for my stuff I'm like ah for now I'm just gonna run them as long-term rents I'm okay with that I've got too much I got to do elsewhere now I'm like, okay, let me let me shift around. let me test pilot on this one and then slowly convert all mine to it. Well, it's just maybe also because at the same time there's less. There's transactional volume going on.

maybe right now across the board, huh? Yeah, it is okay. Okay, wow. okay. so uh now.

uh. basically. uh. what is freeway here? so that's State streets? Yeah, the way we came in was really wonky.

It took us on the back route, but this is like State Street between Orem and Provo Uh and so a very heavily trafficked Road right there. Yes, um. but they got this big sound wall. It's sitting above us.

We're under it. You're still here. but nobody. Tenants aren't going to care.

it's it's actually pretty nominal. Yeah, so okay. uh. and then what? Two beds here and then, but there's no basement under us, right? Basement? Okay I Thought about having my contractor, uh, start digging.

but yeah, yeah. not gonna push my luck quite yet. Yeah, yeah, this. I mean this is I mean you did a great job.

I mean this is thanks. Yeah, it's clean, super easy. Uh yeah. I mean this is awesome.

Yeah, you don't usually don't miss divorce. did you do? Did you put these doors in? Didn't you replace them? Yeah? replace them? Yeah those are nice. three panel solid or Hollow core doors. They're really nice.

Yeah, picture like Okay, cool. Thank you for showing this to me. Uh, what? what is the other one? Kind of similar to the first one. The I think there's a like I have a few clients that bought those over there.

Yeah yeah. I was like I knew there's a lot of red. nobody. very few people out here own and live in their property.

So I'm like, yeah, now you're gonna have a problem. The city's never gonna come knocking on my door here, right? right? I'm probably gonna be able to get away with that for indefinitely. Yeah, and so I was like, no, this is fine and I'll still find good enough tenants to come live out here. so it's mostly investors buying out here then.

Uh, and that's similar to what we saw in Provo Then yeah, there's a lot of a lot of investors all over. Okay, so many rentals we're very high renter in Provo This particular part gotcha. Now how do you think that changes in? say Pleasant Grove or Lehigh Is that to far less? Would you say it? Almost the opposite. I Mean you're still gonna have rentals everywhere, but but for sure the percentage is more holistically more way more homeowners.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, you'll still see a pop-up of a lot of basement apartments that are getting more like necessary. almost to be like we can't afford anything unless you have somebody supplementing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you'll see a lot of those.

but like Full House Rentals Yeah, you know here, you can go literally in that zone. but you guys were. Yeah. you could go down and be like nine rentals and one homeowner man.

Yeah, right. Yeah, Okay and up there it's gonna be the other way around. Yeah, yeah, that's that's what I thought. Yeah, so shout yourself out.

How do people get in touch with you? Um, honestly I just pulled my website down. I'll I'll maybe put it back up. What's your phone number is? 801 898-6218 Like I said. do a lot of Utah County um Josh Zippero.

sorry yeah, backwards. It's all good. That's all good. Okay, perfect.

Um, thank you. This sounds really, really insightful. So uh, Recon is exactly this. It's this is not what we want.

This is what we want. This is not what we want. This is what we want. And usually you know you hear High cash flow.

Everybody's talking about high cash flow. It's like there's a yeah, But there's a reason why. The cash on cash return is higher or whatever you know. and we want stuff that we're comfortable owning for 20 30 years.

uh, you know, or trading within markets or whatever. So this is not really that you know, uh, it's it. would be very very management intensive and I don't know that it's worth it. So this Realtor is phenomenal.

Yeah, he's he's great. He knows what he's doing. Uh, clearly he's experienced and and that's what you want. You know you want to meet people and leverage their experience because uh uh, you know they they win.

And Commish when you buy and in the meantime you learn, that's the whole point. That's like when I started as an agent, it was all about how much can I teach people who are coming to me and you know I'd have to teach 20 people to sell five something. You know it's just the way it is. Yeah, so but yeah, this was great he was.

He was great. He was on it. Uh see, this is interesting this. Yeah and and um I think it would hurt the comps wouldn't it? Yeah it does I mean eventually everything can appreciate.

But uh yeah I mean a less homogeneous area is is what you're really going to do is you're going to increase your turnover. You know your tenants are going to leave and I want I want to be in those areas where the tenants are like I want to be here forever and I don't want to leave because you could you. You know turnover sucks, especially on houses I mean it's one thing if you're doing a turnover on a unit because what do you do? you blow paint and carp and you're done. But if you're renting out a three bedroom, two bath, you know there's a lot that a tenant can screw up when they're moving all the time.

Yeah, so we want to. We want to minimize costs. Uh and and I think getting basically dare I say click baited by high cash on cash returns uh that doesn't show you know the value of or the cost of turnover and time and management stuff is dangerous right? Yeah, uh you know and a lot of the people who are like oh yeah, I'm getting this huge cash return or whatever it's it's uh so they're managing it themselves or there's something illegal going on. It's fine.

Like that's I'm all for people like individually making money. But you know to scale with house hack we need institutional grade properties. Yeah, we need everything's on the up and up. Yeah, um, would you like to work in that real with that Realtor in Ogden on Friday I don't know that I want to go to Ogden Based on what he said, If the person investing in Orem Is Telling Me Ogden sucks and I think Aurum's not that great then then I don't think we're on the right yeah? Track there.

Yeah, so let's see how uh Lehigh is. I'm excited about that. We're gonna go see, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're gonna go see.

we have three pop properties in PV Okay, uh Pleasant Grove PG yeah Pleasant Grove yeah. one grandma house in Lehigh Good, great, Fantastic. A lot. That should be just what we call a wedge.

What's a wedge deal at the grandma house? Yeah and I like like it was a good sign that she called me. She's like there's a grandma house. You guys will love it like that. that.

That's a good sign that the Realtor understands what we're looking for. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, exactly yeah. Well, maybe we just need to be up front and say that like we're looking for you know, Grandma's house so we could do some cosmetic Renault too. Well, we tell them that.

but sometimes it's like okay, there's no fixer-uppers on the market right? but we don't need that. Yeah, bonus points if there are. but we're looking for the best neighborhoods. Yeah, we're focused on yeah, uh.

high high ownership home ownership rate would be another thing we might want to mention. High Yeah, home ownership, right? That's on the front end that I could do a bit better on is learning the statistics I Just mean like it's learning I mean this is the first time we've gone to uh, you know, a market where tenants are substantially dominant and it is so obvious I mean there's a reason why you know, in like, rent controlled areas and high rental areas. uh, you know poverty goes straight up it it. home ownership lifts people out of poverty or or I mean you know there's substantially increases people's net worth? Yeah, and then they have more money to spend on uh, whatever their uh, their Landscaping you know, and when everybody's see when everybody's home looks nice on the outside or whatever except that one fixer people want to go there for Halloween You know people want to live there, their kids are playing outside, whatever right? Like it just reduces that turnover because the type of tenant that uh, lives there is is less likely to be using the Realtor's word transient.

Yeah, okay. I'm done living there I'm just gonna go get in. a like you almost wanna to buy in in the neighborhoods where people are renting there because they want to be in the neighborhood. They're not renting there because it's the cheapest thing it was available right? Like that's a you know, sometimes people are like oh I move into this area.

Okay, what's the cheapest thing I can get? Yeah, you know and and that's that's the only reason they're there is the number that's not what we want I think what we're looking for is the reason somebody is they are renting is because they want to live there. You know that that helps us in the long-term appreciation and it really lowers the risk. That's the other thing you know. if you've got thousands of properties I mean you don't want to deal with a ton of evictions and stuff we need to pay for like TransUnion data and just get credit score by by like City It's like, all right, let's let's just go where the credit scores are higher.

Pleasure to meet you. Yeah, thank you by the way for for doing this of course I'm really excited This is awesome! Thank you Yeah we are. so they were. There were a lot of different uh rental strategies folks were telling us about In In Provo and uh, right, uh and aurum, what is it like out here? So Pleasant Grove is a little different.

Yeah, you got Orem and Provost next to all those universities. So their strategy is a lot different because they're looking for college students here. It's more family and those type of renters. So and you do Property Management as well I do.

And so what are the usual management fees out here? It's like six, seven percent of rents or okay, five to seven percent, five to seven. And then plus, like a re-rental fee or whatever. When you have a transition or is that generally included out here, you know. Oh, God Do you generally do multi-family or commercial? Oh I See okay gotcha.

How does this area compare to Lehigh Which I think we're also going to next? Yes. So I brought all the numbers because oh sweet. Okay. I saw you guys are big numbers.

Okay, so thanks for that. Yeah, let's I mean we can look at the numbers here. Sure. So in Pleasant Grove Um, sorry you're looking at rental rates or you want to see whatever you've got, you can tell me it's fine.

So with um, median sold price in Pleasant Grove we we're going by quarter here as of 2020. sure, um, but last quarter, uh, was 574 or 575. okay, um, so those are the and what were these usually rent for? Like a three and two out here. So I also got that for you.

Oh perfect, thank you for? that So off of KSL that's mostly where people go for rentals. Um, it's depending on the type of home you're looking at. these are the different type of rates. Is this part of your MLS No, that's just K sells.

Sort of like local for rentals. basically. Yes. I See Okay, okay, so twos and ones 1400s? That's kind of like what we just saw in Uh, two, one, one, uh, do a lot of the like.

Is there a certain age point where you get almost always basement expectations? Or just Pleasant Grove have basements or not? Really? Yeah, Yeah. So 2500 for like a three and two uh is an example listing over here? Uh, you've got the apartment buildings. the twos and ones, threes and ones are 14, 13, 15. Uh, okay, all right, got it.

So thank you for that. So uh, and then this is what is this that we're in right now. It's a three and two or sorry. I'll give it.

Okay, there were so many listings. let me check. Yeah, yeah, so this one is. um, seven bedrooms, three full baths because they include the basement.

So I got four bedrooms in the basement and is that pretty normal that? uh, that you have to have any rooms in a house out here? Uh, yes. Okay, Okay, yeah. okay. is that is that different than from five to seven bedrooms? Five to seven? Wow.

Okay, uh and that's a Pleasant Grove thing. It no. do people generally commute out here or what do they do in Pleasant Grove Commuters? Yeah, a lot of I mean really that far. a lot of people work here in Lehigh or okay by the point of the amount, that's where a lot of jobs are.

Got it? Got it? Got it? Uh and where is that? Oh from here, a little bit north, about 20 minutes. Okay, so if I go so so we're here. If you go north west, this is Lehigh and the point of the mountain Thanksgiving Point point of the mountain. this separates Salt Lake County to Utah County.

So a lot of people commute here for work. I mean people have various jobs and there's a lot of jobs in Utah County So this is maybe where like the tech jobs are that people talk about and that I see Okay and then I heard good things about say like Alpine is is that generally the okay got it has Alpine Highland Cedar Hills A lot of those people are entrepreneurs business owners. uh startup companies. so that's maybe where you're going to get some higher rents and ah okay.

getting bigger homes, bigger price points. Got it. Everything's more expensive. Okay, got it.

Got it. I Grew up in Highland so oh did you? Oh wow. Okay, so where would you if you were going to buy rental property yourself? Where would you choose to buy it? Well it? really depends on what type of renter you're looking for. Sure like Stable.

Like not gonna move every semester, right? Yeah, Yes, um anywhere. North Utah County So that would be Linden American Fork Lehigh Highland Cedar Hills Pleasant Grove Okay, I've got it. Got it. So from like, so we're like at the edge of the beginning of that? basically well, Lyndon Yeah, Yeah, Okay, gotcha.

Okay, okay, uh. and then Highland you said that's where you grew up, Got it? And how does Highland compare to Lehigh So Highland is generally more. It's more established. How does it compare it? I mean they're both very similar with um, incomes.

We're looking at the home income levels and all that. they're pretty comparable. Okay, got it with and then the where's the the the one house that you were going to show us in Lehigh Where's that? Oh yeah, so that one Remember off the top of my head over by yeah. so it's in this general area.

Okay, okay, got it. So uh, that is. probably yeah. what? Maybe within eight minutes or so of Highland that's actually pretty close to Highland Yeah, about 10 10, 15, 10, 15.

Okay, okay, is there like a particular downtown or these all suburbs really over here that you're gonna give? So um Lehigh has a little Main Street downtown. It's really cute. Uh, Highland does not. Highland You can drive from one end to the other end in about seven minutes.

Okay yeah yeah um. it does have like shopping like a little grocery store, closets or not sure. yeah all kinds. the same way.

it has more of Clauses and things got it. Okay, but you're not gonna have like a downtown like I don't know if you went, you just go to Salt Lake you went to Provo downtown. there's we drove through that? Yeah yeah okay okay. we got pretty similar to how Lehigh Main Street looks and then I heard there's some new construction kind of expanding out towards Eagle Mountain does it? Yep, Saratoga Springs an Eagle Mountain Lots of new is is that deemed to still be pretty much On The Fringe And like further for people to go or um I've noticed a lot of people moving out there because you have price points are more affordable, more affordable.

but got it? Yeah, got it? Okay, all right. awesome. Well let's uh, we'll take a quick peek at this one. So this, uh, it's I'm noticing in this particular part a lot of almost every house we've been in has been added on to Provo or um and here do you get that also over in Highland and Lehigh yeah you'll get people to add stuff.

Is that pretty common? gotcha? gotcha. Okay, okay, got it. So oh wow. there's a lot that's over here.

so you've got family room uh and then basements. Okay wow okay what about um your your typical like renter or buyer out here or it may have already asked you? Did you say they're commuting or are there a lot of jobs out here too? There are a lot of jobs out here so a lot of times people will just work in the area. Okay, okay, got it. Uh and then this lot size pretty typical for Lyndon for a Pleasant Grove Yes, this is pretty typical.

Um, this one I was kind of gearing more towards your guys's criteria of sure, something either run down or oh yeah. yeah. so absolutely I mean a lot of original elements on a house like this, right? I mean you've got the original doors, You've got the original tiling that we can uh, you know, either glaze or replace like the tub and that. So a lot of original elements here, but so far not been super enthused by the Uh markets so we'll see.

I'm excited to see Lehigh in that area. This almost looks like they somehow got power themselves to maybe an extra unit or something I don't know how they pulled that off, but I've never seen an electrical meter ex with exposed romance essentially like this. and it's the older uh fiber Romex outside. uh and it's going over towards the garage over here.

Some some funky things going on out here, but it's it's the market and that's what I'm finding is just uh so far Provo Aurum. and even here you're getting some of that that Funk dare I say uh, you know I mean this is funky. You get a beautiful house over here and you know it's just not very clearly homogeneous I guess I should say uh. makes a little tougher all right.

tougher to make sure you're good on your values and your rents. Recommended this place called what was it Highland Highland So it's the Highland has the stigma she said the higher priced one. it's because that's where like people from Provo don't like people from Highland yeah because that's where the rich kids are. Yeah, okay I want to go there? Yeah, well let's go there.

I guess I Feel like getting the poverty rates I guess it's understandable. Yeah, why the the numbers? If we're not rigged, they were accurate. Well this looks like a nice home. So this, uh, this home was obviously built more recently, but a lot of the homes around it looked like what 40s, 50s So uh, is that just people coming in buying a lot and then custom building the way they want it? A lot of it was a lot of this used to be Farmland So okay it's just depended on how the who owned the land when they sold it.

Got it? She didn't really get subdivisions, it was just more whatever people built right. We have more subdivisions now that are building more track home type but yeah and where would those usually be? Oh uh. lots of different areas. There's one here.

um in Pleasant Grove that was like built back in 2010 and type. And then they have like custom homes that are being built super close to the mountain. They're super pretty so the closest of the mountain. that seems to be a theme.

Yeah okay all right. Oh, trick with the lights. There we go. Okay so here's your more traditional, more open floor plans.

Uh, it's so yeah. I Guess if you get a newer one mixed in with the older ones, they also kind of customize the kitchen. It seem to be a little harder to comp but not impossible. Uh okay.

the uh. the Lehigh one that you said the grandma style one? Yes, is that one in attract or how does that remark that one? So we'll have to see when we get over there. Okay, I'll have to see what subdivision it's in? Yeah, um I Also want to show you this: this is the Airbnb Market in Pleasant Grove where we're at. Okay, so just to give you kind of an idea on the short-term rental side of things.

yeah, what's available? Okay, awesome Yeah, let's go check out Lehigh It's supposed to be getting nicer in this direction. Hey, look at that. We turn the corner and it's normal. American Housing Forget the farm and the party bus back there we got housing.

Oh that's a nice real estate sign. Look at that wrought iron. so this is Lehigh Is it? Is it all kind of like this? Uh no. Lehigh's not all like this.

this. um, there are newer parts of Lehigh I mean yeah. like any area? Yeah, yeah, it's bacon. All right.

Okay, huh? So it's very interesting. I Have to admit I mean it's got like that, the perfect characteristics of Grandma's home. But uh. okay.

so and then this. It's so interesting seeing just the basements. I'm gonna go down I'm gonna look at least one basement. but I hope you come back up here.

Yeah I Know you know you can tell somebody's used it frequently. How interesting. Okay, let's see what we got. Hello, hello.

It just feels like someone's here though. Yeah, it does. So there's a feeling. Okay, so so like these are the so.

I I Would guess what a lot of people try to do is turn these into finished units, but it's tough. I mean they've got all the equipment in the middle out here you've got. Hey, you've got, you know, the sink in the toilet? Kevin this is a finished bathroom if you're asking me. Yeah, yeah, this is good enough.

Oh sorry, just using the restroom here. Wow. Okay, so now they could say they added as well. So I mean I would imagine people try to finish these off pretty regularly.

huh? Yeah, and