There's companies in Tesla that we don't even know about that are being incubated. You know, you know who called me bias the other day Gordon Oh yeah Gordon he says you're you're not allowed to talk Tesla because nobody prices supercharging networks in and Tesla's just getting this right now from the government. So it's one of those things where we know Tesla's like three to five steps ahead of everything. When I spent time about 18 months ago with Elon talking about FSD he told me welcome back to another episode of the Meet Kevin show.

Today we are confronting the Silicon well the the What founder and leader I like would like to say of the Tesla Owners Club Silicon Valley what's up? Thanks for having me thank you absolutely s Silicon Valley so so that must been like like uh SF homelessness What's going on up here? Well Silicon Valley obviously stretches literally pretty much from San Jose all the way up to San Francisco But really A lot of the companies I would say in probably in the past two to three years have actually moved out of San Francisco come further south um or potentially even moved out of the area. So the Silicon Valley in in a lot of ways. um I really see it like Palo out to the San Jose it's still we have a homeless problem but not like San Francisco But you're like this whole area is dying California's going to hell right? Like every company's moving left. Okay, there's of course a couple of companies I mean even Tesla They moved their headquarters out but the engine nearing headquarters is still here Oracle even moved out.

There's companies that have left their headquarters a lot of it's for tax reasons, but this is still the engineering. Hub Really? Oh so even Oracle might leave their Engineers here. Yeah, I would say they're leaving a lot of talent here. I mean most the companies are right I mean even Legacy Auto has brought their company I Mean if you look at the Tesla headquarters in Paloalto Ford all the other Legacy companies are literally down the street.

Wow. Okay, so a little overblown then that. Totally okay, so you don't see I mean people look at San Jose for example and they say, what a million dollars for a three-bedroom one bath. What a ripoff? Is it a ripoff based on your income? No.

I mean the average salary here is over $250,000 Um, $100,000 is actually seen as low income here now. which is insane My gosh. But really, it's it comes down to where people make the money, is the equity and the companies. Yeah, right, it's not going to be.

So hopefully you can make it at one of these companies. I've had friends um, you know, at you know, Amazon and Apple over a decade and you've seen the runup on those companies and so they're all doing really well. So really, a million-dollar home becomes kind of just a number at that point. You know, based on, you know, if you're at a company, but you know Others May struggle if they don't end up at a at a company that does really well, right? So I would say you know, yes, a million dollars maybe look like, uh, it's a lot, but at the end of the day it comes down to you know, the equity that you get in the companies and obviously in your base salary as well.

So obviously you've got a big reputation for Tesla Tesla Opinions Tesla Everything. When is this damn thing going to be magnificent? I'm pissed. Okay, it's like we. It's part of the Magnificent Why? Why is it part of the Magnificent It hasn't been magnificent.

Like are you talking about the company itself? No, just the stock price. Dude. Okay, I just want more money? I You know. Honestly? I think um, you know you have a lot.

That is. Um, you know whether it's macro, whether it's interest rates over the past year, potentially even some of the headwinds from the the Twitter or X acquisition? Um, I mean you and I were talking a little bit about that before. but um, really, it's just. um, in my opinion, it's It's still way undervalued.

Um, the regular analyst Wall Street Analyst: Um, like Gordon I Don't even bother mentioning his name because you know I don't even know why he's even ranked. Uh, to be honest, he is ranked to be honest. but he's at the bottom. But um, you know people don't understand this company.

It's like saying Amazon is just a book company right back in the the late 90s and the early 2000s. That's what. really? what they were. and now what are they? They literally do everything.

they make clothes. They're a pharmaceutical company. Now they pretty much, um, control the whole e-commerce world. really? In the US now right? And they're doing so much more.

I mean robots are now being you know, rolled out in their factories for the delivery centers. Um, they own a stake in Rivian too, for you know, so it's just a lot of that. I Think it's you know Tesla Really is. It's not a car company.

that's that's the Amazon to book store. Tesla Tesla is the you know car to really it's an AI um AI robotics company. Yeah, I mean 70% of Amazon's eBay Bottom line: Basically now is servers. Would you would AWS Yeah.

Like would you have thought that a book company would become one of the rich, richest server companies in the world? That is such a good analogy. It's like Leverage uh, something like either books in the case of Amazon or cars in the case of Tesla to then, uh, create the foundations for maybe really profitable things like the Optimus or FSD or what exactly or even Tesla potentially getting are they going to get into service? Like, like we hear Dojo so great and then then Elon on X Yeah we're just bought a 10,000 h100s from Nvidia cuz they're so good. Like what's going on here? Yeah well I think think a lot of it is you're just seeing the beginning of what this company is doing I mean the amount of data that this company has is absolutely insane. From your driving, to all of the charging stats to the tele tele, does that matter? Like any of that, does it matter I think I Think it makes a huge difference because now you're talking about the the next computer on Wheels And really it's like if you want to look at just user stats like if if you look at how much people spend time on their phones and how that is while in the yeah but now it's in the car, it's now, where are they going, what are they doing right? It's almost like having an Apple Watch but being carried with the person literally wherever they're going.

So all of that data at the end of the day and and thankfully they've opened it up to third party apps. Now it's going to be huge. I mean I Think it's really the the future of of user data is going to be. you know, in cars right? And just seeing that's fascinating.

So when it comes to growth we see like these kind of SC curves for Tesla What? What is your expectation for the next like growth cycle? Do you think it's going to be Optimus based? do you think it'll be FSD a new release? Cyber truck scaling all the above I mean ads on the windshield? yeah or on my license plate? Um, you know the insane thing is you just are just you're just talking about the you know the five main things. I mean this company is a bunch of small startups within one. There's companies in Tesla that we don't even know about that are being incubated. Tell tell us more What? What are some examples? Um, you know I I think uh I mean there's certain things I I can share and not share just because of the stuff that's been shared with me.

But there's um, again, you're just. you know you're dealing with a company that the amount of data that they have, the amount of capabilities that they have I mean if you think of the supercharger Network that's being built out I mean they're the next gas station in a lot of cases. Oh wow, the energy business is, um, going to be insane and hopefully help with a lot of their margin. Um, this upcoming year and the years to come I mean that's not even baked in the valuation? Sure, you might say Okay FSD kind of is Optimus isn't not at all.

Um, and so the amount of progress too if you look at even the amount of progress in in in Optimus is insane right? like you watch. Boston Dynamics And no, no hate against them. But it's like they've been running this dog around for like decades and it's like literally like okay guys, what's next? like are we going to do something other than a jumping on top of a table? Yeah or Dancing Yeah And here Optimus is like I was at the AI day. um in 2020.

Uh, September 30th and literally it walked for the first time in front of us and then a year later or 18 months later it's doing yoga. It's doing dance parties. I mean the video of that So like you literally have like Tesla is solving full self-driving on the road which is harder than probably walking. but now what What are they doing? they're They're just taking that same technology and applying it to.

You know, being in a factory, being you know, at home, and helping out with chores and the mundane and monotonous, boring things that no one wants to do. Um, it's gonna. it's gonna completely change all of that. So I think you know to answer your question about the next, it's it's more of like you know it's going to be the realization of F FSD is going to be next.

um I think probably the closest thing, if not, um Optimus. But really, the robo taxi? The $25,000 car. Um, even if they have to put a wheel in it, the $25,000 car is going to be a game changer. a wheel Um I think there's there's debate.

Yes, exactly. I think if it was up to to Elon no, no steering wheel I thought he was spare tire? Yeah, no, no. um and I think there was some of, um, they alluded to that a little bit in the Walter Isaacson uh biography. A little bit about the debate between a will and not a will.

So it's just one of those things where um, you know there's a lot ahead of this company. It's just, you know, and you have the best company um to execute it on right? I mean this company's executing at an insane rate. so the steer by wire is probably straight from the Robo taxi team. Wouldn't surprise me.

I Wouldn't be surprised because uh, Robotaxi would be no. uh. Steering wheel, no column, no steering colum? Exactly. So so it has to be a computer steering it.

So why not start testing the steer by wire technology in the Cyber tralk and they have. They have it out. It's on the road and now it exists. That's very interesting.

Last week when you were talking with uh Sandy Monroe and Jo you mentioned that you you believe the $25,000 car or the Robo taxi or the van might be released this year. Do you still think that and why do you think they'll be coming out? Yeah, I think Well, so Elon said in his interview with Sandy that um, he's reviewing the production line Weekly right now. So it's one of those things where it's happening. We and we all know that I mean there's even rumors now that the Model 3 refresh is being produced in the Fremont Factory Um so it's one of those things where we know Tesla's like three to five steps ahead of everything.

Like they were building the cybertruck production line out of Fremont with a tent. you know, the infamous tent. so we know that like and this is before it was fully ramp. so they were setting up parts of the cybertruck production line not even in Austin just to start testing it out making sure things are running um straight.

So I think you know they alluded to it I I Believe at the shareholder and investor day you know they had the little images of this these future products um and I think that um, neither of which were a cyber truck. by the way, those two covered up were not exactly and their mission is at the end of the day is to take gas vehicles off the road and they need a $25,000 car to do that. Something that's affordable? I mean even the model 3 with tax incentives I mean it's even. You get a used one, you could get a used one for $25,000 Why don't they just cut the size of the battery and get a 25 car K car out as soon as possible even if it was just like another option of the three.

just cut the battery in half I I I Know people like I don't know, maybe wouldn't sell but I think for a lot of people, do you really need more than 120 M sa of charge if you cut a three and half and now you have more efficiency in the vehicle, you could probably get the cost of the car down another. 5K Now you look at incentives you might be knocking the door of, you know, $22,000 Yeah, what do you think about like why don't they just do that? Well I think they're they're thinking differently than that. just I I think they're oh to B I'm too basic. That's basic.

No, they're They've alluded to the Nextg platform the the third, uh Nextg platform. So they're thinking about a brand new platform in general to build it on. It probably is going to be reduced battery size obviously because the average American is driving what 40 miles? Yeah, so it's It's going to be one of those things where they definitely are thinking about. um, you know how to like what's next.

I mean if you think of the model Y, to the cybertruck, the amount of manufacturing and Engineering that went into that and the level of tech that was upgraded, the 48 volts, the steer by wire uh I mean you could keep going, but it's just. um, those are the groundwork items for the 25k car. That's interesting I didn't even think about that. The 48 volt architecture and the cost Savings of of the copper and otherwise alone that is a tool to help create the 25k.

Yeah, totally could be. And it's just one of those things where I think it's um, it's not just about the B the battery size I think that's one aspect of it. but I think as far as the nextg platform, they are thinking about the cheapest way to make a car and how do get there right because it's one of those things where that's what they did literally with uh, the cybertruck too right? with the Giga castings and the steer by wire and the 48 Volt all that stuff is and making their own metal. I mean using air to bend the thing too like I mean it's it's incredible.

So every car that they do is just a completely different level of Ingenuity and and Manufacturing I Loved what you just said about. uh, by the way that Tesla is the next gas station. If somebody could have told me 50 years ago, do you want to invest in gas stations? You know, because everybody's going to not have one car at home, but you know, four cars at home or whatever gas stations will be everywhere like. of course you would want to invest in that.

That's so. and that's something that nobody prices supercharging NW Works in and Tesla's just getting this right now from the government. Free money man. I mean everybody says oh you know Biden doesn't want to mention Tesla you know promotes GM or whatever.

Fine, that's probably because of lobbying and do their money or whatever but like, but what's the government actually doing throw showering Tesla with money for the super charge? I mean they're the best. Yep I would not want to charge with any other charger exactly and like I Just saw there's one, um a V4 charger being built by my house and it has the magic dock built into it along with a screen that what is that? I don't know what that is. the magic Doc is essentially non uh, Teslas use a different adapter. Okay right Okay so what magic is liist the magic? It's just.

um, it's pretty much the Tesla charger plugs into an adapter and makes it so you can charge like with. that's what they give you with the kit in every Tesla the to they stopped giving those out yeah that's true. now they charge like $400 or something crazy for but either way like so now non EV non Teslas can come to V4 Superchargers. There's even like a a going to be a screen so you can potentially run a credit card through it.

so that's like and BP just um is paying Tesla They announced that deal. It's a $100 million deal to buy um, supercharger equipment from them. Best Western wait wait BP is buying supercharger equipment from Tesla So they're going to BP brand it. They're basically vation.

Yeah, really at gas station. BP Chargers But it's Tesla technology underneath right? because Shell wants to get into Chargers as well. but these companies, they haven't created the Chargers So basically you could go white label it. It's like you know, let's go to the winery and we'll put our logo on it.

Basically Point is doing that. I Believe it was Shell Pot. it was a Shell gas station where they had it said charge point but it also said shell or Chevron It was either one of those companies. um Best Western is now putting in the small little destination chargers chargers at their hotels over 2,000 So I guess they are the next gas station and at the end of the day as they continue to eat up more of the um, you know the market really for this they're They're going to be the next place that you buy your your charging equipment from that you essentially charge your car at.

I Mean it's all. it's the full stack. that's Inc I Mean if they they like charge point is just that alone. a charging company and they suck compared to Tesla Uh and that's like we said, not just not built into the Tesla valuation including when we talked about let's shout out you uh, we just did an interview for your uh, either Twitter or I'm assuming you'll post on next.

Uh, so make sure to look for it there. But one of the things I touched on is I think I mean even Beyond just the charging. but as soon as they have the first Optimus actually selling and not necessarily yet for home, that's like the long-term future I think we can all agree but getting The Optimist to just unload semi- trucks every day, back and forth all day long and now you make Freight so much more efficient because the trucks aren't waiting for the next shift workers to come in. it's robots doing it.

So I mean just the the scale that can come from this. So the desirability of having the Optimus in a factory will be massive. but the Catalyst of when they sell the first order of Optimus robots just even for that basic purpose I mean what do you think is going to happen I mean the stock has to go up. What's your Target on this? When are you going to sell it? Um, like for me, um, you know I think I Do believe in um, some of the stuff that Elon is saying that this could be the most valuable company and potentially combine with what is it a Ramco andle Apple.

I Had a very concerning nightmare about that I had a nightmare that that was true. but it was true. not because Tesla went up, but because Apple the other two went bankrupt that that may keep me up at night, but um, it literally kept him up I guess he had nightm nightmare like oh my God Elon's thing came true but it's only because Tesla haved in value and the others went bankrupt. sorry I Think for me like my minimum Target is 750 to 1,000 at least like I I Definitely think there's a lot of stuff that is just not baked into the valuation and they're just uh, they're going to be game changers like the solar business, the battery business.

I mean I don't know about you obviously live in um Southern California but like I'm literally a virtual power plant now with my solar and my two power walls like I don't PG Niche was shutting off my electricity 7 to 10 days a year. but now I don't care because go ahead shut it off. I Have you know I have the sun? Thankfully we live in sunny California and you have the sun pretty much you know over 300 days a year and so I'm my own virtual power plant and I can sell it back during peak hours to PG So they're paying me something what like $7 a kilowatt and I got my check yeah or whatever the number is. um, but there's so many things that are just not baked in.

and if you are a street. Wall Street Analyst: you're going to try to create some random model and there's just stuff you can't factor in. So how do factor I mean if we could look if we could ask grock or chat Gbt to be like look at the Wall Street analysts on valuing Amazon or even Apple During certain days like what were they? What were their price targets and how are they taking into consideration of like what we have today? That's a really good idea. Like when Amazon was first public like what were the valuations then you know that would be really interesting.

Uh yeah, I it's wild I just pulled this up BP boost uh EV charging Network with100 million order of Tesla Ultra fast Chargers y The agreement forms just part of BP's plan to invest up to 1 billion in EV Chargers by 2030, which honestly I wouldn't be surprised if a they start with this $100 million test and then a lot of that 1 billion goes straight to Tesla because it's the best charging equipment. but then I would suspect that honestly a billion is pretty low for that investment from BP Uh, that'll explode and this sets the standard then for Royal dut shell, whatever to also get. that's very interesting I Never thought about Tesla as essentially a white label charging Network because you think of Tesla superchargers. Oh, they're Tesla branded.

but I mean in the future you could be going to Shell and you're you're pulling a charging cable out to charge your your whatever electric vehicle is. you don't even know it's Tesla inside. Oh BR Ron Baron that's uh, he has this much like it used to be uh Intel Inside in computers Intel Pentium or whatever inside Ron Baron's thesis is that in the future cars will be operating on TES Tla's Network basically the FSD Network and so it's Tesla inside. Well, could that also be for the Chargers That's such an interesting thing you brought up.

Well if you think of Ford right like the one thing that's going to kill Ford what? Sorry, uh, they used to make 30s right? Um, fix or repair daily. You spell their or forward spelled backwards. drivers return on foot. o Okay, that's a good one.

Uh, biring that butt. They are the only American company uh, manufacturer of cars besides Tesla who's never gone BK that's true. Hey, shout out to them we're biased here. You know you know who called me bias the other day Gordon Oh yeah Gordon he says you're you're not allowed to talk Tesla because uh I have no bias on Tesla he said that and that I have a Tesla bias and that he has no bias I'm like if anybody has a bias Gordon it's I like I like that guy I I think his analysis isn't good I I Don't think he has a bad heart, but he's got to do what he's got to do.

You know I do want to go visit him, interview him again I Want him to actually try FSD that's not. No, he refuses to try it because he's afraid of it and I'm like bro, how how can you analyze Tesla without trying FSD that has to be his thesis but um, sorry, yeah no. so Ford so long story short, Ford is the thing that you see on the front of the car. but at the end of the day they've manufactured out like it's 500 suppliers making that car.

So BP could be saying hey, this is BP you know, uh, gas or charging or sorry BP charging but it's really Tesla on the back end right? So it's just one of those things where who are these gas companies as they make this transition into gas to EV charging places Like where are they going to go they're going to go to Tesla Um, you know some of the other charging networks have decent products but Tesla's going to be seriously name one I I'm curious like what this would be News to me's what's a decent one has a home charger? Okay, well for like home network but what about for like charging your car outside? I've had decent experiences at EO never found one that Electrify America is complete garbage. Yes I agree with that. Um, charge point is they they don't have enough fast. Chargers To be honest, it's like when I go to the library and going to leave the car there for 20 hours? Um, but I've had a good overall experience at the EV go stations like there was actually um by my house I had three miles left on my car and the latest supercharger was 4 miles.

So I took it to the Evo and it was. It ran perfectly there. Hey, by the way, if you haven't yet gotten lifetime access to the Gold course, make sure you do that. It's linked in the description down below.

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What about So the 25k car? uh or or actually let's ask this: Robo taxi we 10 years away. like when are we going to see this? Yeah. So if I was to give an estimate on this I would say three to five. Okay, so I don't think, um this decade yeah like I mean most of my driving nowadays to be honest with you and again I'm going caveat that I live in the BBS of the San Francisco Bay area so I'm not in the D like right in San Francisco Sure.

So like most of my D is all the time I see his videos exactly and La I mean the guy lives between uh NorCal SoCal True, Um, but um so he's up there. Uh, but for me, like most of my drives in in the suburbs are amazing. like and so it's like even if you had a robo taxi, maybe you geolock it to specific areas. but like think of Ubers being replaced by these Robo taxis and just you know, call it from like Palo Alto to San Jose I mean that's going to replace a lot of workers.

um in a lot of cars. Oh that's interesting because you don't actually I see that's another thing I didn't think about. Uh, you don't need the robo taxi to be able to do everything, yet it just needs to work in certain areas like a a functional uh Cruise or doesn't mow people down. Yeah, it's so gruesome.

I should not be laughing. that was horrible. but um and then that. so it's okay.

that whole business died literally that next day was I think CEO resigned. Then they paused. The automated driving made it so you have to have a driver. Then they canceled that two and we're like we're just going back to the drawing board and it also came out that I think it was actually the times reported that uh, they were using 1.4 I think driver or employees per self-driving vehicle.

so it's like wait a minute. wait a minute. You have 1.4 people per driving vehicle sitting in an office somewhere or whatever supporting the the actual functioning. Vehicles You may as well just have somebody in the car.

but I will say I cannot wait until we have Ubers without people inside because I'm tired of talking to people like like like I don't know you're going to have an AI talking to you like mute I like I I I just I I I don't like sometimes I just I I feel like maybe I'm just so backtack and working and talking all day long. It's like I get in the car. It's like close the door. It's peace.

It's like my little shell away. Yeah, no it makes sense. I mean you like it's going to be a game Cher um I mean you saw Uber and even Lyft kind of making some investments in those and obviously shut it down for various reasons. but you know, if Tesla's making the car, they're going to probably be running the software.

They're going to be running the whole network and maybe even Uber has a big partnership and they've um, they had some incentives for their drivers to buy um Teslas at the end of the year. so there's already a decent relationship there. Um, but really I want see the numbers on that? You're right. I think it was $3,000 if you did.

Uh, if you did a hundred drives with your new Tesla Model 3 I think it. I'm not sure exactly which it was, but uh, they would give you something like $3,000 I'm like that's actually amazing. Yeah, and I mean the question too is do you think that even the robo taxi network is fully baked into the valuation zero? No. I don't think it's so.

it's like an Uber and a turo all together? huh? You know? So there's really just like I think at this point the problem with Tesla is more of like there's so much that they can do. It's about prioritizing ruthlessly on the things that they should do right. They could make all of these products. They could make a motorcycle which El obviously shot down yeah because of his childhood experience.

but you know there's so many things that they could do a boat. Other stuff. What happened with that? um I believe uh I think he had a he he fell off once or twice when he was a kid cuz he was like a Tom Cruz previously like he flew play right? I think he was a pilot he drove a McLaren F1 crashed it in the canyons. Okay, exactly.

had a traumatic experience on bikes cuz I think he was. he kept asking his dad for one and finally got one. um so he won't make that. But long story short, there's so many products this company can do.

it's just a matter of like what should they do cuz like we haven't even talked about. what about the app store right? Imagine an Apple App Store in your Tesla MH that's we all know that that's there with the third party. but what do you do? like it it fairness like I never use my infotainment thing other than the you're never in your car. well it really.

you have a laptop blocking your screen. yeah this is true Yeah well. laptop stand. Surprised that like I mean I've been pulled over with the laptop stand over the last decade and I never get asked about the laptop.

it's cuz all the cops know you. Is that a good or bad thing? It depends yeah depends on time of night. but I think like even if you think of like the you know let's say you're driving your Tesla even the back screen like what can your kids use I mean obviously they have a small App Store with YouTube and some of the Netflix and some of the other stuff. but you know there are issues with charge time still right now.

like you know, it still takes you 20 to 35 minutes depending on what you're trying to do. So what are you going to do? Are you going to walk into the store or if you stay in your car, you know, what are you using it for? Like my kids, they're they're playing the games, they're you know, Um, they're watching watching the YouTube and Netflix and stuff like that. so there's a lot that's there. But imagine too.

You know you start throwing in like grock, um and some of the other chat stuff as well to like. You know as you're driving, you're having a conversation and potentially even doing work. that's a good idea Zoom as well. right? Like, especially when Co was hitting like I Would have loved to have taken some calls in my in my car with zoom, you know? But um, so that in my opinion, even as the future and they've launched that.

um, but it's just as things can be become more of the norm. Um, there's not even a taboo to be sitting in your car and taking a zoom call, right? Yeah, that? That is interesting. Like almost like FaceTime with the camera that's in the car already. Uh, the only thing I hate about Zoom though is every time I need to log into a freaking meeting, it wants to do a software update before I Go in.

it's like I only got 30 seconds not to be late here and you want to do a soft a five minute update. Oh God it's so true and you can't say no? You can't Yeah. I just who ever thought M I don't know, uh just be on I can see the C just be on time. it don't work that way.

I'm still a believer in the Tesla vision of pulling up to work and then my car can go park itself. or if I got the spare battery can go drive as an Uber pick people up, drop people off you mentioned Geo fencing which I thought was interesting because you've spoken in the past about the differences between Tesla's FSD progress and all these other companies. Uh so Well First off I wanted to ask, what do you think are some of the different challenges that Tesla faces with FSD versus some of these other like Cru that don't seem to be making much progress right now? we don't want to get cruised? Yeah, literally. um, talk about a a business.

Uh, flopping over in a matter of a day? Well and I think GM paid like 35 mil for him too. Oops sorry Bill Bill Bill Bill let me get that right. Either way was overpaying. Yeah jeez, yeah.

Well that's uh, the the valuation has uh probably dropped 100 fold. Um but yeah, no. I So I would say for FSD I think you know when you look at these other companies like the Whos the cruises of the world before obviously they stopped. They were able to focus on three blocks of San Francisco three blocks of like uh you know, LA and some of these other places so they become experts in you know, three blocks Phoenix No one is tackling General autonomy right where it's like you know you can like Elon's even said when he was doing the um, the full self-driving V112 demo, he was saying yeah, at some point you just put in coordinates and it'll find its way.

It does not need to need to see the map, It doesn't need to see um, like the roads. It's just going to be able to look through the vision the the pure vision and get there even now. Actually, if you type in like at least in my Tesla when I type in a location, it goes to the coordinates so it's already programmed. it just goes to the coordinates, not even the actual like Street and all that it just goes there and then you have to click it again.

So that's really like I. Think the the difference between um I think that the companies like Cruz and weo they're thinking about it from a like a very like honed in and like zoomed in view like a 100 Zoom or whatever it is versus Tesla is like we need to build something that can be used anywhere. So whether I'm in Montana versus Miami versus you know San Francisco versus Los Angeles I can turn it on versus a dirt road I had it I was at a winery the other day. we had one of the um up in San haen Valley we had um I forgot the name of the city but up towards Sacramento there was a we we went to a winery and I literally turned on FSD going around a lake and it was a dirt road and it was just like there was nothing in the navigation to even tell it where to go.

It was just going and it was able to see the dirt road so it wasn't even a paved road. So I think that's that's ultimately what's going to shape these because how do you even scale a whmo? So do you just roll it out slowly by city by City you'd have to and the amount of capital to do that versus you. Then the first one changes, you know? then they add a lane or whatever. Totally right and things change all the time.

right? lanes change. But okay, so maybe maybe Cruz won't bankrupt Tesla but Byd will what say you? Um, well I I think we. We also had a little bit of this conversation. I mean um, there's been this narrative um by Legacy Auto in the media that saying that eeve demand is slowing down.

but really, if you look at Byd even sure that Byd is focused obviously in China and there's subsidies and all that other stuff. But with Byd becoming Um from a quarter volume perspective, sure, last quarter they beat Tesla but this just shows that there is demand for EVS and this, this is the future, right? Because we all know when you compare a $30,000 like Toyota Crlo versus a model 3. now it's cheaper per mile with a model 3 100% And You know, like I Literally, Like my kids won't know what an oil change is, they won't know necessarily what it means to um, go to the gas station. They won't necessarily know what it means to have your engine break down your internal combustion engine.

Which literally is like the irony of that name, right? Because you're driving something that can literally blow up. It's a bomb. Yeah, Um, exactly. And so that you know, like um, electric Vehicles is the future.

Byd being in the picture is just um, you know we have Apple and Android and other. um, even within Android there's like 20 to 30 Brands Sorry, if that's a Android We fight about this all the time. You're the reason why. I Get the green messages.

Yeah, ex. exactly. you had to be that person. Um, but like I I Like when you think of, uh, one of those things where it's like, you know, even with Apple and Android right, it's just one of those things where um, Android you know, um, their operating system is.

it's actually similar to probably how Tesla even rolls out their software updates like I have a legacy uh model X I get updates, but mainly on full self-driving Not really with the UI anymore because they're tackling it from like what is the mass volume so most people are using Samsung Android phones. They're not going to prioritize the Nokas and some of the other ones, they're going to prioritize what are the millions of people using. And that's ultimately, um, how they tackle their software updates and updates. but um, sorry I know I'm going on tangent.

But back to electric vehicles. Like there needs to be multiple players and you know there's going to be big players in Europe there's going to be big players in China It's just part of the the story and um, again, we talked a little bit about this is that you know Byd is not trying to tackle certain things right. Like full Cale driving and all that other stuff, right? it's with Tesla they are. and so with Tesla they're going to pretty much own every nut and bolt on the car.

plus the software. and um, and I think you know I think you I think you mentioned it Mikey It was specifically about the the licensing at some point too, right? they're going to be. Not only are they going to be the gas station, they're going to be the software that's licensed out. Um, they're going to be the system that makes the whole car car communicate.

They're going to probably own the app store again, the Uber and the Turo all just like built into like yeah I wonder what? like uh I I Guess an easy analogy here for anyone watching might be do would you rather a 25,000 Byd car or a $25,000 Tesla Come on, that's going to be a Nob brainer. So I think that's a really good way to put it is like is when when Tesla uh starts introducing or even the model 3 is close to that already like you had mentioned. uh but would you rather have this ground up everything Tesla the softw stack, the nuts and bolts as you're saying, the charging system, everything or the the I like that analogy. what you said with Ford it's just a like a collection of all these different manufacturers and parts producers which I I'm sure uh to many extent uh Tesla's got a I mean uses plenty of other manufacturers as well, but uh, the software I've never found a good product where the company just bolts on somebody else's software.

I mean maybe an Android world would be a good example of it. but like I don't know I mean usually it's clunky. so Jim uh Farley spoke about this right cuz he's in. He's got this ball and chain that he can't get rid of right? which is gas cars and he said I I believe it was on the fully charged episode where he said you have 500 companies essentially writing different code on different platforms so they might be using different languages and now try to have it communicate together.

That is like the worst nightmare so that because it what happens is a piece of the car will go into an auto bidder and then whoever wins that out gets the rights to like make that part but they can write um, the language for making that part operate in whatever they want. There's no like uniformity there. Oh, in terms of code exactly and making, so that's the problem. So now you have like 50 hands trying to 50 left hands trying to talk to each other.

Interesting. Okay, yeah that that's fascinating and that's where maybe the sort of Tesla ecosystem can consolidate that all into its code base. Almost kind of like when you want to submit an app on the Apple App Store it's got to be done Apple's way and go through those interesting and and uh, I mean Apple makes a lot of money obviously from their App Store how is how could Tesla potentially make money from an App Store I mean like downloading YouTube is cost Yeah, I Well I think it's it's going to be one of those things where they could create it's similar to probably like the App Store in itself, right? subscriptions being bought through that right? Maybe you start purchasing a like if you really think of like Netflix being um how they split it, split it up. Maybe there's a subscription just for your Tesla potentially in there.

Uh, you could buy potentially movies in there. You could buy shows and subscription to shows, but you could also buy apps as well specifically made potentially? Who knows. Maybe there's um, they're going to charge for to have X integrated with you know, grock and all that other stuff and you have to buy a specific feature there add supported Tesla yeah cheaper car. like the 25k car ad supported.

every time you turn it on you have to like your eyes have to be on the ad for 5 seconds. You must watch 5sec non skipable ad I bet you I don't want it, want it? you know what's really funny actually is. So I read uh the Disney earn last Disney earnings call and the Netflix earnings call Netflix is at about 30% new sign up. Going to ad supported Disney Wow.

about 50% and then I came up with Theory The adults are like let the kids have the ads so put the ads on the kid's monitor in the back of the car like wow, Yep, classic. The world would work that way but that is interesting ads in in future cars. Yeah. I Guess there there's really no shortage to potential verticals.

uh for for Tesla I mean that's just like what you said with Amazon going from bookstore to this um did do they prioritize servers at all? I mean like I want dojo like I think they are I mean they I think they're realizing like the future I mean imagine you're going to need a computer um or really servers that can process all of the human data that are going to be with Optimus yeah versus the roads and they're going to have to break that up I mean even now I think if if I was to step into Tesla's world and look at their analytics I the the the biggest thing would be like how do you even make up Kpis for all the stuff that they're doing and because there's so much data like how would you even break that up and then more importantly, like how do you then train it to then right? TR because the other thing is like when he was uh, when Elon was doing the FSD um um demo for full self-driving V12 he was saying yeah, we didn't train it to take um, you know, deal with uh, stop lights, um and some of the other stuff. it's just learning now and if it screws up which it did, he had one disengagement he's like we'll just feed more videos and so I think that's going to be the big thing is like how do you deal with all of that processing you know all thata Yeah, so are the unions going to take over in my opinion? No, um, not for Tesla uh whether that happens in I Actually was having a conversation this morning with Sweden I Think there might be even certain countries that force it. Um, but my understanding of Tesla employees in the US is they don't want it. Two, they actually make more money.

I mean I'm meeting service texts that roll up to my house. uh Tesla Service Teexs that are millionaires because of how the stock runup has done over years and so you know they may again. I don't know the exact numbers they're may be getting paid what 35 to 50 an hour, but because of the stock and the equity because they literally got it at nothing and it split a total of like two three times. it's like 15.

you know, one share back then was worth 15 now. Crazy, Um, they're becoming millionaires because of that. And so in my opinion is they're making more money than union workers are and union workers aren't getting stock, right? So interesting. So they don't even control like the like as an employee.

I'm a shareholder of this company I Want it to do well, but as a union worker, that's not the case. You're you're working for somebody else twice. Almost like you're not low risk, low reward. Exactly exactly.

Yeah, that is really interesting. Yeah. Costco Just put out a letter I Respected. They had a one store vote to unionize and their letter uh was we're not upset at the employees for unionizing, We're upset at ourselves for not uh, um, what was it I think you actually brought up I Remember reading is we're upset that we didn't take care of them essentially enough.

Bottom like I Don't remember exactly how they worded it, but the argument is like if you play, if you pay enough, your employees won't want a union. So because you're taken care of and everyone at Tesla whether you're a janitor all the way up to the to the vice president or CEO you get stock right? So that's the biggest thing here is that. and um, and I I think like I've I Can't tell you how many employees especially like people that are running like the Tesla Fremont Factory that started as a sales advisor and they end up just working hard and next thing you know they're They've done very well for themselves over you know, five to eight years. I've met so many of them who started doing nothing and they're doing very well.

and they're in multi-million dollar homes. That's wild. Hey quick note from Mikey and I If you want to see more content from us, we've got the Meet Kevin and Mikey podcast channel. It's linked in the description down below where talk about a lot of things not just Tesla but also stocks and politics.

A lot of Juicy things over there you like juicy uh when by the dip on San Francisco um I would man it's so hard to predict because you know like being I mean you live in California like it. it almost feels like especially. you know in certain areas there's never really you know a really like these areas. you know like Vegas I know like my dad lived out there uh lives out there and they they went 50% of what their original valuation was during.

you know the huge issue back with mortgages right back in 2008 20 2012 but here it maybe saw a 25% dip. I mean I grew up in this area so for me it's just. it's one of those weird things where it's like in my opinion, there's never a right time to necessarily get in. it's just getting in.

that's what I tell my friends who are just asking that question. you know obviously it's slowed down a lot because of the interest rates. yeah but also here again, it just depends on what company are you at. CU I mean um you know, even on my street like I've had two Apple Engineers move in in the past three to five years and it's you know it's because the stock has done really well so it just kind of depends on like what's going on in the market.

but in my opinion in the Bay Area there's never necessarily a right time to get in. Um, even if you got in at these high interest rates it's you can refinance. Would you ever buy like core SF though or just stay around? Um, I would I I think you could for sure? um I think I'm hoping it'll come back but I would still say I feel like the the wheels need to continue to come off in that City before before more happens I mean you're seeing it happen like um the China President came here. Yeah and and you saw the before and after photos of the same street people outside of the the Twitter headquarters were saying like this is what it was yesterday.

This is what it is today. they turned homeless people exctly and you can like somehow move them like you know, like they're like cardboard boxes or something and so if the city wants to clean it up I believe that they can but there's not enough incentives I mean the amount of businesses that have stopped um being in San Francisco whether it's you know Whole Foods to Walgreens Banks Clos Yeah exactly. So um, but I think that this area is just going to be a tech Hub I I have Co was potentially the the ultimate test of that with companies moving out and remote work becoming a thing. but what's happening right now All of the tech companies are pulling people back in.

No, we want you here five days a week? How many days a week is average right now? What are you seeing? Three, three, three days in office? So are you seeing people commute to? Like the Oakley and the Concords commute from there? Um, you're you're seeing it. Um, I'm actually even seeing employee or people moving back to the Bay Area specifically. Uh, whether they had moved even further out from those areas. Okay, um, but you you see that? um I think but there's also too.

like as traffic starts to pick up, you're going to see them like do I want a 3,000 foot home in Oakley or some of these other places. or do I want a 1,200 foot home million doll home that at least I'm like home with the family. So you know if times the ultimate currency it's really where do you value that? Wow, Wow. uh what about uh, um, um Apple Pro Vision that's supposed to come out? Is that going to be the next? iPad Is that an iPad moment in your yeah I I would I would say so for the virtual reality space in that? Um, you know, really with Apple coming to the VR market and really mixed reality Market it's going to be um I think a GameChanger because it it for Apple to put out a product in that space says enough and when they typically put out a product, it's high quality.

I Still think the issue with Apple's product is it's too expensive for the mass market and so hopefully people will always pay up. Kind of like you know, the test. the stretch is what they call it. We all know, you know, uh, people will also overpay for iPhones and other things like that stretch that's like I want I want I want it.

So therefore I will pay more Exactly exactly like people were paying $55,000 when they could really only afford 30,000 but they were willing to do it because they wanted the iPhone they wanted that thing right? Okay, so that's what they were during the early days of Tesla with the Model 3. that's what they were calling the Tesla stretch. Um, but I would say for them for Apple to have this product. Um, you know there's a couple things that still need to change, but it's it's going to level the landscape for the future and saying that this is a reality, this is going to happen because even when I've uh, put on headsets um to be able to to have my workplace literally 15 monitors in one? it's a GameChanger but isn't like give you a headache or bother you? No, not necessarily.

I mean especially as the devices get get lighter. Okay, oh so more weight is more of a problem than your eyes. Yes, I mean I guess you're either looking at the screen in the headset or the screen on your actual screen cuz imagine you have something that's you know. fairly light on top of your head and I can see both of you.

but then I can also see potentially you know YouTube like maybe I don't need to communicate you with you I can see YouTube going. you know maybe one of Meet Kevin's episodes I can also see you know slack I can also see like you know my spreadsheets and all all those I mean I got like 10 monitors right now to do that and so you're saying. kind of like replace all that crap exactly and you're still able to see through it. You can still see your co-workers and colleagues.

we could be as we're sitting here. Like let me show you an example. let me open up this thing. throw it on the wall and now we're all looking at the wall and I think that's a cool feature and so that I mean like how far out are we though for I think for Apple like I mean their Vision Pro it's too heavy and it still needs to be hooked by a cord.

Okay I think they need to remove the cord and it needs to reduce the rate by like a it needs to be a fraction of what it's at. Now it's too heavy in my opinion for it to become Mass Market but I think with Apple coming in the market it is the the mic drop of like this is the future like this is going to be potentially the next computer of like VR mixed reality is the next computer. um if they can do it right but you know I think it's it's still very much the beginning. Wow so so it could be sort of a an I mean I remember when the iPads first came out uh, there was really nothing like it then and and nobody knew they needed an iPad now I feel like I have 10 of these things.

you know they're they're amazing. same thing with the Apple watch now I need now like if I don't have my Apple watch I don't see all the notifications coming through. so I literally when I check my phone maybe every 30 minutes I'm like looking through I'm like this is insane versus at least you can kind of keep an idea of what's going on right? right? Or something urgent or whatever. That's a good point.

What am I missing Mikey Uh well I have an FSD question you mentioned FSD a couple times today. Do you think that's going to be like will it live up to the hype? Will it be this insane new step forward? Or do you think it's going to be kind of more moderate steps like the previous updates have been I think uh well V12 for to be V12 it's stepping out of beta and I think the reason why out of out of stepping out of beta? Yes, I didn't know that. so that's why that's why. um, there's been less regulation on the Tesla side is because everything's been labeled as beta.

Uhuh. So at least again I don't know if it's going to get relabeled, but it my understanding is FSD is V12 it's not beta so it's supposed to be a huge step up. There have been some leaked videos that I've seen and they've The footage looks pretty good so I definitely think it's It's going to live up to the hype, but I don't know if it's going to be. You know, like are we going to turn on Autonomy 5 tomorrow? No.

I think it's still going to be a minute? Um, but I definitely think it's going to be, um, completely revamped like when I spent time about 18 months ago with Elon talking about FSD He told me the amount of times that they had to rebuild the stack of code for full self-driving was I think it was like over 20 times and this is stuff like I get an update, a software update and then I complain about it if it's not what I wanted to be but I have no idea. Like the stuff that these Engineers are having to redo. What? What do you mean rebuild the stack like the whole code stack? basically sometimes. yeah and and is how is 12 different from that? Is that just a rebuild or is it because supposed to be based off of the neural network which is like pure Vision like there's literally like minimal training I mean if you look like they're not building code for every Edge case I see for the stop in California like the stop sign in California they have to build code for that cuz that's a that's a law now So it's like or you know they have to build that but for everything else, they're building a general base so that it can handle anything so it just puts in coordinates.

Whether a kid drop jumps out versus you know, having leaves on the ground or a pothole like it's able to handle anything and then can learn and get better. So it's based off the neural network is going to be the the biggest thing with Dojo obviously coming online which supposedly I believe it already is online. Um, but um yeah, I mean V12 should be You know? hopefully big steps forward. So 11 is has no well.

I I Know it has a lot of training, but it's not trained the same way 12 is. So we're in a we're a completely different style of training. Yeah, the video feedback training is like here's some instructions. Follow this then we'll adjust.

12 is like observe now. do I I'm almost somewhat scared because I like 11 so much it's already so good. Uh, and so I'm like please don't mess it up Elon's always been an advocate for vision based, right? He says like humans drive cars with just their Vision so a computer should be able to do it too. Do you agree with that decision? or do you are you more in support of the redundancies like Lar radar? um I I mean from what I've seen I definitely believe in that.

I mean they've um, like that's the way to tackle it because imagine can you imagine driving around in a wayo like with all these like things spitting around I mean uh, rather than having like 20 you know the rims that used to spin all the time like you're just going to have this like I think the way that he's tackling it, it is just like anything else like I think there's certain benefits and certain potential cons on it. But overall I Think this is the way to go. I mean you don't want to have to deal with um, you want it to be able to. You want to build a system that is general that can handle certain situations versus building.

you know the pure Vision Plus putting Ultra sensors into it, plus putting lighting. You know, all that other stuff. So um I mean even V V11 Right now, there is a basis for the Pure Vision too. but again, it's not completely on the level that uh V12 will be.

So um, can I use Apple Pro Vision since it would be augmented while driving it's past through vision. in theory I would think you should be able to yeah depending on the Wi-Fi connection. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you need be Wi-Fi potentially if there's any, um, delay lag that would ruin I wouldn't do it if there's Cru hold on pedestrian I'm lagging I'm rubber banded sorry lag yeah I mean we'd have to unpack Cruz I mean I Don't know what those guy like what the latency is on for them but like they're they're they're doing it right. They're all sitting in a call center or video Center whatever you want to call it, they're literally watching this stuff happen live.

um and so the question is more of like how much of their stuff is real time? That's interesting. Yeah see, because that's where the vision becomes a game changer is. I I hate leaving my studio because I like having all my crap like I I my keyboard. the everything set up just perfect the way I want it I need to go live instantly I can do it I need to make a recorded video or stream someone or or interview someone.

whatever. All my work is right there uh and so like if if if you could turn that into in the future a headset which I imagine you'll be able to. it's just a matter of when uh and I could basically take my office everywhere that yeah and just you put it on and then everything is set up the way you want it. so you're taking your studio with you.

That would be very nice in the car. Yeah huh. Wow, that's this is this is. very interesting, very exciting.

Very. One last question. Yeah, of course. Uh, this morning when you were talking with uh Sawyer on your call, there was talk about how people are getting desensitized at this point to Elon's tweets or posts and how it's less drastic with this year with the election coming up.

Do you think it's going to you think people will be triggered once more? Or do you think it really won't matter? You think he'll say something so spicy that he's going to lose support or impact the share price in a negative way I Feel like if he I don't know if he's necessarily going to, he could tweet anything that has already been more polarizing than previous things in a lot of ways. Yeah. I mean people already potentially know he's going to support one side versus the other. Um, you know I so I don't think you know I I think in some ways I do agree with that like I do think people are desensitized I Do think we are getting to a point now where um people you know the fear of stock Again, we had this conversation earlier.

the fear of the stock of like how is this going to damage the Tesla brand and you know sure maybe there was some headwinds of like hey is Elon focused of Tesla and all this other stuff But we all know like Investor Day showcased all of these leaders and with the way Tesla runs, you know? um Elon Even at Tesla there's certain things that he is focused on. He's focused on autopilot, the manufacturing. He's not focused on some of the the business operation stuff of it. If he needs to be same thing with SpaceX right, he's got um Gwen running that.

Same with uh X he's got Linda So there's certain things that he is focused on. He knows like this is going to be a game Cher for this company and what he enjoys is what he's going to focus on. Sure When he came to X I mean he literally was pretty much living there right? It was like production hell all over again. Um, and he had to manage the finances and everything else.

But now, like you see, um, you see it now he's he's the CTO the chief um, technology officer focusing on the product and all other stuff. So this year definitely I mean I'm expecting that he will say certain things that are just going to piss people off. Um, especially because it's a it's a it's an election year but you know I don't think that that's going to, um do anything else that it already hasn't. Would it free him up to be like the CTO at Tesla as opposed to the CEO I Know that's unpopular, you know, because people hear, but but you mentioned it yourself, he's not the CEO of Starling Clearly he's the runner.

He's the Visionary right? Same thing at Twitter X Now he's he's the Visionary. You can be the Visionary without being caught up and bogged down in the the well. I think in a lot of ways he already is the CTO or whatever you want to call it, he's not focused on certain aspects I mean obviously. um there's certain implications like I've heard you know crazy stories of and I don't know if this is still true where Elon had to sign every po more than $50,000 at Tesla Oh so there was, you know Pro but that's doomsday stuff.

so is he on that still now? Maybe Yeah, yeah. um but I Think it's just one of those things where um, you know he already is very much focused on. you know the the The Cutting Edge the bleeding edge of like autopilot of manufacturing like all the stuff that they're probably doing with the Robo Taxi. but yeah, he might not be focused as much on you know, the supply chain or some of these other things right? that? um so I I I Do think that being the CEO though has certain um connotations, positive connotations.

Okay um so like you know him being the CEO at Tesla and SpaceX have certain things. but I think maybe with Twitter and X him not being the CEO all actually kind of removes him a little bit and it becomes more of like a personality. So he's very strategic and how you know structur? you know, good for him. Okay I like that.

What about advertising? Last question I got yeah Tesla Yeah well I think um I I think you know they sold 1.8 million cars last year uh 38% growth I Think the reality is we are getting to a situation where you know more awareness is important uh more than ever and I think how do you get but more butts and seat because at the early days where man if I can just get my neighbor driving my Tesla he's going to be you know a Tesla owner in the future like I can't tell you how many co-workers in 2018 I was literally driving around or having them get in my car and they all own Tesla now even family too and so I think faster than Co Yeah it might. but you know once you get outside of these big cities like in LA like uh you know the Bay Area like how do you get to the everyday people that are living Sacramento living in uh Fresno like how do you build that awareness? how do you get because I think even on Twitter or X you kno