Hey guys welcome back to the podcast super excited. I've got pamela here from my team checking in and the thomas erickson uh author of multiple incredible books, starting with the one that really kicked it off, kicked it off for all of us, surrounded by idiots so thomas before we jump in. I was thinking about our business and all my friends that are listening that want to unpack you and your methodologies. We are a coaching company.

We help people build sustainable, great businesses that are designed to serve as many people as they want to serve right to have this beautiful experience. Buying and selling real estate, which we both know can be complicated. The problem is, people are involved in all of it and that seems to be the challenge you're trying to solve. So whether it is you know, finding a client nurturing a relationship, maintaining a relationship managing partnership relationships, oh by the way, children and spouses and friends and co-workers it all requires these.

Damn people are you going to help us all that today do my very best, at least, but to be honest, i mean there aren't so many idiots out there really. That is, of course, irony you got that, but there are some idiots. They move around a lot. You know so so, but but if you know what to look for, you can actually spot them, but people are fascinating and - and i i mean, will we ever understand everything? I guess not, but we can understand a lot more by observing people and analyzing actually use.

Well, i almost said logical at least common sense, let's say so yeah, let's see where we can take this well, let's, let's start with just so, people have contacts because you know so so pamela. Why don't you tell us what you know about thomas and then i want thomas to to fill in the holes for the person that maybe is listening, who's, never read your books or doesn't understand why pamela is over here fangirling out of her mind. So so who is who is thomas? Who is this book to you or books to you and then i want thomas to fill in the holes. Okay, i can do that.

Well, thomas erickson to me is a lifesaver. I worked in computer software systems for 14 years, so i understood the language of computers, yes, not necessarily people. Yes, i made a transition in my career that had me facing people every day, yeah, and it was a challenge because they just did not make sense. To me how they operated and how they handled things, it was what's come on.

It's common sense like what's wrong with you right, and i positioned myself in a place where i was like. Do i work with people or do i go back to computers like i didn't know what to do growing up? You know anyone that didn't have what we call common sense. My father would refer to as an idiot, so that was my training like people who, like common comments, were idiots yeah um. But i love what i do yeah i coach and i train and i work with people and i love what i do and i needed to be able to stay in a position where i could serve to my highest capacity and i stumbled upon thomas's book surrounded By idiots - and i went - oh my god there's someone else who understands me and i turned the pages and i started reading and understanding the personality types by colors and it helped me to effectively communicate.

Everyone is not like me um. I had to adjust and adapt, but i was able to do so in a successful manner because of this wonderful book thomas created, and he made it so easy to read, and it just literally turned my life around, because i brought the book to you right and Now, i'm here in front of these awesome men - yes at least one of us all right, yeah, so thomas, give give people context. I wanted people to hear from pamela but give give people context like how long you've been doing this. What's your backstory, you know you've written all these books right like so give us just some context.

Okay, so i got my first managing position at the age of 24.. I was a good salesman, really good and i said, take me which they for some weird reason did big mistake. Huge mistake: i was a lousy manager, lousy. Well, i was, i was an okay manager, but a lousy leader going cliches all over you already, but um.

Well, you know everything people came to me with, i said, well fix it, and then i said well how about this well fix that? Well, how about this that well fix it and fix it. I didn't i didn't know i i was out, you know, selling and making those kind of stuff. So so after i would say after i couldn't make people listen to me and i surely didn't listen to them because you know i didn't think of these things. For me, it was a non-issue people and you know i haven't reflected upon it at all, so so for me it wasn't it wasn't on on the table whatsoever after eight or nine months.

I realized this isn't going well. People are kind of looking sideways at me like this, and you know walking walking around me and you know bowing their heads towards each other. When i was in in the you know, i was thinking some something's terrible is going on what's up and then i realized that i i messed everything up completely completely messed up, so i went to my manager's manager, two levels above and i said to him. I think you better take me out of this equation to it.

Honestly, i don't know what i'm doing and he said you better stay put sonny, because your your boss is even worse than you she's, not even here so so i had to stay for a year and a half something like that, and then i finally managed to To get myself out of there, i didn't learn anything because i i didn't know nobody told me to be honest. I i just i couldn't figure it out. For me, it was just a great mystery and you know when we had these meetings, you had to sit down around the coffee table uh the last day, you're there they give you the hand they hand over a present, and they say well good luck in your Next step in your career and hooray, you know i didn't get anything they didn't give me, i gave them a plant to be honest and it was a horrible moment. You know kind of strange silence and people were really awkward.

You know like this is: is this going to end or what is it? And after a while one, lady got a bad conscience, she said: well, it turned a little bit better at the end and it was just horrible horrible. This was not my okay, so afterwards the the hr department. This was a huge bank uh in here in in sweden, and then i i was called up to the hr department. That said, would you like us to make an analysis of some sort of personality assessment? How about that and i said well sure, let us do that and they gave me a piece of paper and i filled in the questionnaire and they gave me the result, and i said oh no, oh my dear, oh goodness.

No, no, no is this. How people are viewing me and they said yes? What do you have to say about that? And i said this is this: is this is pretty awful? To be honest, this was not my aha moment. It was more like my oh no moment, yeah like awareness right, yeah self-awareness it hit me like a you know something heavy in in my head and i thought, oh dear, i really have to pay attention to other people, but mostly i have to pay attention to Myself and remember, i had never reflected upon this anywhere anytime before in my life. Nobody told me, you know the communication, that's tricky, you need to be kind of aware of what you're doing and which not to, and i i had i'd even been in a, i think, two at least one.

Let's say: management training programs during this period. Nobody told me they told me how to to use my schedule, how to write business plan and so on so so forth. But nothing about leading people and communication is kind of important. So and then i started working with these two, which is what i described in the book, and i had been lecturing and and and giving workshops for, i would say i would say well 20 something years and then i actually starting to started to write.

This is the funny story. I started to write the thrillers. Yes, i did and i used a management consultant, a behaviorist hm. What do you know who used the colors to help the police like some like some sort of profiler? Like you know the mentalist, or something like that and people said nice stories, my stories uh the tune, the guy's using in the books.

Why can't we read more about that and i didn't know about any books on that topic. So finally, i said after 500 of those questions i said to myself. Maybe i should put that book together myself because i kind of know the topic that became surrounded by idiots. So that's the story.

Actually i personally i i can. Even i get sorry tom i can fill in some more. I can add the following yeah, because you jumped from that publisher management to touring to most people don't have self-awareness. Most people don't even recognize the fact they're walking down the hall and that people are like avoiding them, so you were young enough to have that self-awareness.

How does one find that cell the person that's listening right now? Thomas is probably saying oh he's talking about. You know phil in the office or phyllis, and man like she just she's, just she has to find clients that are just like her psycho right. How does how does one find that self awareness to understand that the way that you're communicating isn't necessarily right for all the people around you and if you truly want to be whether it's self-actualized or just better, at leadership better at sales and marketing you've got to Bend to their reality, they do that. Well, how do you get it well, it starts with.

It starts with something else. I think it starts with insight. You have to do something different, because what you're doing right now isn't working you have to sort of, and usually we don't. I mean we do what we do, because because we think it's the right thing to do, otherwise we would have done something else.

Right i mean very few people walk around in in an office, let's say and and trying actively to mess things up. Usually they don't they think they're doing pretty. Okay, you know pretty okay standard by by well. Until something happens, usually something happens.

I mean i've coached. Thousands of all managers - and they all say well, you know it was this situation. It was that situation. I have.

I have on my own list a 43 year old, ceo of a media company here in sweden, kind of big media group, and she said you know it's funny. You have to turn 43 until you realize everybody doesn't think the way you do, and you know. Oh, oh my: where do we start? You know it's a lot of things to to to take in here but uh. For me it was this yeah.

Let me let me go different directions just for a second so for the person that's listening. That is like what the hell are they talking about colors, you know, like you know these. These sitting on my desk is a constant reminder and really for me, it's probably more just those two and then very little of this right. So so could you could you break it down for us, the the colors, the concept, so people really understand and maybe have a little self-awareness of who they are and then, as you're listening this my friend, maybe think about the people that you're closest to or the People that you love the most the people you work with the most and listen for the color.

Does that make sense? Probably uh? Well, um, it's a four it's a two by two matrix where you divide the introversion and extroversion, and then you have a task orientation and let's say people orientation or relation orientation. Let's call it um and uh if you combine the different uh the different axes here, you find you get, let's say four different bases. They say it's a basic ingredients, let's say, and the red factor is uh the dominant one fast forward very competitive, very, very uh. Let's say very quick in in judging other people, usually the one most surrounded by edith's.

I would say some people are surrounded by more idiots than others. These are probably the ones not talking about you now tom, of course not, but you you knew that and and and then you know and and they are really really you know very impatient - the inaction gives them the creeps. They have to be on their feet. All the time you know doing things being really active and you know we're in a hurry, we're not we're not in a harbor.

We could speed things up because life is short. You know those people, you know bam bam all the time and then the other extroverted profile is the yellows or the yellows and they are extruded but people-oriented relational. So they are smiling all the time you know when the sun is shining and life is beautiful. You know when you should sing and dance because wow and even though you might say well, you know it's actually raining here, it's snowing and they say yeah yeah.

But you know the sun is always shining somewhere right. You know and they are very creative. Some of them haven't touched ground, since i don't know the late 90s something, but they they can. They can solve problems.

You never heard of. They can answer questions you. Never you never ask, and they are kind of extremely extremely, let's say wire for for dealing with people. Everybody loves them because they're positive they're open they see opportunities possibilities where everybody else is seeing problems and struggles and challenges, they say yeah, but you know i can see an opening for you here.

You know and they can find the way through and they are kind of well always smiling right. Pamela always smiling and happy happy happy guys. And then, if you go to the introvert side, you find the green ones, uh relation oriented as the the yellow ones, but in a more calm, let's say mo they're kind of more relaxed a little bit more laid back, very friendly, caring, very sharing they. They are helpful.

They help people out they. They would never go for a cup of coffee without asking you coffee, tom, pamela coffee, oh tea, oh no, problem, lemon tea was it because they will remember what you said 14 months back in time, and i know you want milk in it. Yes, i understand, but you know there is no milk. I will go and get you some milk, no problem.

I use my lunch break, no problem because they are extremely helpful, very conflictive words, so they would say yes to everything which is, of course, a problem down. The road there's going to be conflict anyway, but they don't like it. Stop really fast hold on really quick, so just think about every person you've met so far for the person listening right now or watching. Can you identify a red? Can you identify a yellow? Can you identify a green and how how distinct those first three are? I just just.

I just want to interrupt the pattern for a second, so thomas, the blue one describe it and then you're up blue one is where the blue one is toss, oriented and introvert. And then you get yourself an engineer or or a tax sheriff or or i don't know, a brain surgeon or something these people they they love, facts, details, proof. How do you know this? Have you read the book? Okay, that's a translation. Do you have it in the original language? Would you ever better check and even though you might well, you don't read portuguese, do you well you? I would love to have it anyway, because who knows could be some problems over there? You know they need to deal with the details.

The tiny tiniest things at the bottom of the excel sheet. You know, aha, there's a digit, i don't recognize. What could that be? You know and they're digging down to the ground, wanted to find more and more and people together. Everything is interesting, they're very curious and they need to they.

They love to to let's say, to to learn new things, but in a very calm and very let's say, focused and concentrated way. Usually they don't say much because talking is highly overrated, wouldn't you say i would say so because a lot of people open their mouths and outcomes. You know whatever unprocessed material according to the blue ones, because you haven't thought this over. Have you? No? I can hear it because there was a tiny.

There was a dash of unpreciseness and then you shouldn't do that. You should be quite until you actually know what you are going to say, which is of course a really stupid thing to say to let's say a yellow person, but there they are. That's the basics yeah there. They are question for you because your explanation is point on like i recently did a training and pretty much how i explained the different personalities right, but helping the listeners kind of understand and correct me if i'm wrong.

But when i look at these colors, i'm looking at a red they're, like you, said they're to the point, they're straightforward, very short attention span. They want to get to the detail right and then you do have your expresses, which are not necessarily my compatible color. I've learned to embrace the color for all my coaches out there, but with the yellows they are. They are very expressive and they're very high energy and they love people they want.

They want to hug. Everybody right and your greens are kind of reserved if you will and they go with the flow and they're not in a place where they enjoy conflict. So they tend to be the ones that get along with everyone. While they can keep peace among the community, and then you do have your blues, that are, i would say, very critical because they're data driven and they are about checking the box and they want to make sure that everything is lined up online presuppose precept.

If you will so in what you said earlier about self-awareness, is that a way that our listeners can kind of self-identify when they're trying to understand themselves? Maybe they don't have an assessment, that's available to check the box and see okay, where i'm red, blue, green or yellow, but really trying to drill down and say. Okay, who am i because what i teach with individuals that you have to know yourself first and once you have a full understanding of who you are, you can better understand those you need to communicate with. So what would be a quick way like for them to self-identify with these colors? Okay, that's a really good question! Uh! I'm i'm gon na try to do this without making some some some murky commercial of it, because of course i know there are three methods. Read the book you can find it on the library in the library you can use my app surrounded by edits.

You can also go on my web page because i have it on there surrounded by edits.com. So now i set it. But of course you don't have to do any of this. What you can do is be more observant.

Probably if let's say you want to use the color system, let's say that: that's that's what we're talking about! Well, if you know what's in the book, you know the basics and usually people will it's easier to recognize somebody else. I would say: usually it's easy to see: okay, you're, the blue one and then pamela and tommy's, the red and yellow one, or maybe the yellow and red one, and i'm not sure i haven't made up my mind about that. To be honest, uh, it's easier to to observe other people, because viewing yourself in the mirror that is kind of complicated and also can be a bit hurting, because then i have to also view the not so fun or charming. Let's say features of my own personality behavior.

For me, it was easier to start with observing others, but it was sort of a dead end also because, if um, where are you as we speak, where are you located dallas, texas? Okay, all right, i see so if i'm going to dallas i'm let's say i call my travel agents yeah, not that we do that anymore. But let's say for the sake of argument. We i do that and i say, get me a ticket to dallas. They would say no problem and then they will ask me from where would you like to go? Let's say i say new york, that's one one kind of ticket, but let's say i say, hawaii or sydney in australia or oslo in norway or stockholm.

Here in sweden, where i am it's going to be a different journey, you know all the way, so you need two dots on the map to to communicate physically and the same thing goes for this kind of of the interaction. Let's say, and the thing is you need both and, according to my experience, it would be better to observe yourself, but then you need the basic data or data. Whatever you like to use, you need to understand the basic you need to understand the basic ingredients and then maybe you should actually pick it up from a book, my book or another book, or i mean there's plenty of other systems out there. So it's better to use one system, a system instead of just going by gut feeling, because sometimes you're actually wrong and that's bad because you will interpret that you you were.

I mean when i look at both of you, if you, if you frown like this, if you both do it, it's going to mean to completely different things, you know, because when, when tom does it it's kind of getting a bit impatient and jesus, this guy is Really a talk you know, and when can i step into this conversation and pamela for you it's it's focus concentration you're! Really there when you frown - and you do this with your eyebrows - so sometimes you guess the guest you're guessing and you guess wrong, you're wrong. So maybe you need the basis, so maybe you should actually go to the book or or try the app that's also. Okay, absolutely i mean i'm not the only one on the part of doing these things so feel free to use whatever. But but it's it's, you need some starting point and understanding the basics is probably the best way to do it.

So i'm going to throw a counterpoint at the two of you, so so much of of life and business is like attracting your tribe and people like us. Do you know stuff like this and act this way, um and, and one could argue - maybe that's listening right now, like oh man, this just sounds complicated, like i'm red, i'm just gon na find more people that are bright fast, let's go and move on, but we All know: that's not the way the world works, but like there's that argument that just says or worse, it feels like today, thomas like there's, there's a cultural thing going on that, just like i'm just gon na be me, and i don't give a what anybody else Thinks, like almost almost like, i remember like when i first studied uh near linguistic programming and or like just the basics of building rapport like i started to almost view people that wouldn't take the time as selfish. They were so in their own head in their own model of the world. They couldn't accept anything other than so so should we just be selfish and say screw it do we need to do? We really need to do this, and if so, how do we do? It i think, that's based on the dynamic of business right um.

It depends on the business that you're managing, but when we're talking about real estate agents and we're dealing with forward facing business lots of different consumers right, then the impact can be to your bottom line. Right because they're not listening, necessarily for your personality but they're listening to the solution for a problem, yeah, so you're not always going to attract your personality type you're, not always going to attract like minded people but understanding what you're in business first business. For then you're talking about family yeah, those that you have relationship with that, you think you want to be in relationship with they're, not necessarily always going to be like you and then what i found when you find someone who's. Just like you, you see the opposite of who you are and go.

I don't like that person yeah, not really sure i like them, not even realizing. This is a mere reflection of who you are deep thoughts from pamela. That is a really really really good point, because opposites attract and usually we we are fascinated and sometimes attracted by the things that we wish. We had oh he's so good with he's so analytical or he's so so fast forward and make things happen all the time or whatever it is the silent, strong type.

I mean the the fiery fired up types they they are usually usually, but they are often attracted to the silent and the strong ones you know and then until they realize they're, silent and they're strong, and that's that's that so and they have to live together. You know, that's me, marrying my wife, thomas right. There, oh well good on you and then you have to live together and plan your vacation. You know and buy a house and raise kids with somebody who doesn't understand or think like you do, and i call that surrounded by an idiot.

That's a joke. Obviously, but you know it's a fascinating fact, but, as you said, pamela business is business and family's family, but then again it's all about people, because people will always be people and communication is always going to happen on the receiver's terms. People hear what they hear. They see what they see and when they have filtered your message, whatever it is through their own layers of experiences, uh knowledges attitudes, um, you know everything education years, whatever ad added on their digital platforms like zoom, something everything that filters away.

Some part of your message: it's going to be what it is, it's going to be what it's going to be, and you can't do much about it unless you really really try to adjust what you're saying to to them. I mean a yellow person. A completely yellow person in this conversation would have to break in and interrupt all of us, because i have a funny story. You know sometimes you have to in love, you have to let them speak otherwise, they're going to be they kind of feel.

You know a little bit, uh well they're not going to like it, because they need more oxygen than the rest of them. I was in a meeting two weeks ago: eight people in the management team, the sales director he was the most yellow guy. You can imagine he was like a caricature of a yellow person and, and i he knew that he got the he got the report in his hand, so he knew he was kind of talking and he was all over the place interrupting ever and i clocked him. He talked eight people in the room, red ceo.

We usually did a lot of this actually because oh no peter is on it again. Sixty eight percent of the time one guy out of eight was talking and he had nothing to do with. I would say ninety percent of the agenda, but he had to put something in there. Sometimes you have to allow it, otherwise he's gon na feel feel.

I don't know bad about you and he's gon na spread rumors about you, or at least you know not like you as much as he could. If you let him, you know, express himself and and and use the colorful language, at least for a couple of minutes right, you hit a very good point, because what you're speaking about are the needs yeah of the personality type and i've learned what expresses they need That validation, they need approval um, it's not necessarily the person and sometimes we get lost in that like. Oh, they just want all the attention in the room. It's a need, as you mentioned thomas, to help them breathe, right right and then blues.

I talk about them. All the time, because i am one - but you know that need for safety and security, the need for space so that they can absorb so much interesting. I don't get that at all from the blues. That's totally interesting! Really yeah right! Well! Well, you know introverts, because we need space to think my son is uh a like a royal deep blue, like he is so like thomas.

I could literally walk in and say god, man, it's been like forever since dad. I was just with you 38 and a half hours ago and we spent all of 14 seconds together like we're super connected, i'm like oh, okay, that's all we need right like he. He is so finite and so precise and so matter-of-fact um. Is that a safety thing - and i just didn't pick up on it? Well, it's security, not safety in a way where we feel threatened, but in a space where we feel secure, yeah, but but secure thomas safety is more green, but security.

More of feeling, i would say, secure that this is correct. This is the right way to do it. This is how it's supposed to be done. I'm i'm pretty sure this is the the method you know doing.

Her blue brain is going right now it is, it really is, and and then we also have some cultural differences as well, which you probably know, of course, yeah i mean over where you are where you guys are over in the states. You have a culture with a specific colored blanket on top of everything here in in northern europe, specifically in northern europe, i'm in sweden. So here we have this green blanket. That kind of makes everybody pretending, they're friends and we are kind of conflictive.

We we tend to say: okay, i get it good point. Then we can, you know, do this in our focuses. I'm never going to talk to him again. You know uh or let's say what would you say the american culture is well.

I think it's different if you're in new york versus dallas versus florida versus san francisco, i mean i think, but overall i would say it's probably a little more a little more red yellow would be my nation. I would agree i would agree. That's that's a good analysis from you from a european perspective. You are more extroverted you're, more okay, hey i'm good at this right.

I can really manage this situation you're good at this, and we we envy you yeah, but you can hear that because we envy this. This this, let's say uh idea of being okay with not bragging or or boasting, but saying you know i got this. I've done it before. I can't do it.

You know. I think i can manage the situation. Trust me for us, it's kind of ooh. That's that's! Uh, i'm not sure i haven't done it before so who knows yeah confident, because he doesn't call that yes, yeah and i understand i understand the us is - is a big country.

I i understand i'm totally aware of that, but the opposite of which means that, as as you say, pamela, if, if i may you say: okay you're, a complete blue you're, totally blue. But you smile a lot and you say nice things. You know, and you talk a little bit now, you're smiling again because a blue, the opposite of. If, if i may, please don't misunderstand when i said this, if i may say the american way, let's call it, i understand, there's a great variety.

I completely aware of this, but the opposite would be. Finland. Have you ever been to finland? I have not in finland, even yellow people. Look like you look at you like this yeah.

You have to get to know them and but when they open up they're going to be super funny in a finnish kind of grumpy way like this. If you ever go to finland to check this out and see how they because they are super introverted. But it's a cultural thing right, so you might think in finland, everybody's, let's say blue and red, maybe because they don't like to touch people. They have this physical zone around their bodies.

Actually don't don't hug them because you're gon na say i i don't know yeah. We have only worked together, for i don't know nine years. Who are you anyway, because that's the finished way sweet is somewhere in between uh, but so it's a funny thing and of course, as you said, tom dallas is one thing. New york is another thing right.

La or san francisco - or i don't know somewhere in minnesota, of course, and that's also something good to know, because when you move from dallas to i don't know where you're going, but you have to. We also have to understand there over there on the other. On the other coast, let's say something else is going on: people are wired in another way on a group level, but on an individual level, it's the same thing. The yellow is the yellow and the red is red and green is the green and so on.

A cultural foundation, it's different, i got to say really fast, though, like it reminds me, i was, i was doing a european tour and i spoke in israel and then i was in germany and then i was in italy and talk about like three. You know completely different different cultures, right you'd say: oh they're, all european. I don't know how the israel group got thrown into the european region for re max, but whatever it was, but like thomas, like the germans, i walk in and it's 8 45 in the morning and there's 700 people in the room and everybody is sitting. Go teach me tell me what i have to do and uh baron von volker weissenberger.

My buddy says to me uh tom, no jokes, no stories just tell us what to do and i was like dude. I got like eight hours with the content, i'm like i'm only gon na be able to do like 45 minutes like joking with him. He didn't laugh at all, and then you know we just we rocked out contrast that to being in italy, they were like duh. Just give us like one idea and then just tell us stories right like just let's just talk right.

Tell us about your tell us about your wife, she's italian, a thousand people in the room. That's all they wanted to talk about right. So there are those cultural differences and i think, that's key, but again we're talking about the individual person going from here to like how do i help pamela move forward in her career, make a good decision about buying and selling real estate we're gon na get into That and i wan na talk setbacks too, but question that was the question i have for you. When we talk about it, because we were talking about differences in countries, we can look at the differences in personalities by states.

But how does that impact individuals when we're looking at geo firms and they're moving in the same state, but different counties right or different areas? Have you seen any experiences where that is an impact with personalities as well? I think it all comes down to. We have thomas help me out here. I think we, i think we have cultural, biases or hallucinations or beliefs about this part of town versus that part of town this state versus that state yeah. I certainly had when i moved to dallas.

I was like i literally. I remember like saying to one of my friends: oh i'm moving to dallas and he was like bing bing bing bing bing and i was like uh dude. Everyone around me wears gucci and prada like it's like beverly hills, right, just no taxes right. So i think you know the stereotypes i mean i i yeah.

As i said, americans are like this, which is a stereotype which of course, a lot of times not true again, but the bias is is telling us something you could expect this. Probably but then again, as you start to see what should we do? Well, you have to pay attention. You have to be aware, you have to be in the room, you don't you can't just drag your body into the meeting and you know just sit there watching your smartphone and you know you have to you have to be fully. Let's say you have to be a bit alert, you have to be, you have to be present, you have to pay attention, you have to observe people and and and use your not imagination.

You have to use your your your right side or your brain. You have to use that and or is it the left, one, the left one, the analytical part pamela. Is it the left one? I think it's the left one. So many girls right one is the artistic one.

Isn't it? Yes, i think so. Yeah, that's the case, but you have to and you can't you can't again. People usually use their gut feeling. Sometimes it's right, but it can be costly.

If you talk about real estate agents or if you talk about sales people, it doesn't matter what kind of industry i mean i've done so many mistakes. I could. I could you know, give you a hundred stories about mistakes where i missed the deal, because i thought i had it in my hands or or i had to you know, bury them in papers i mean quick. Can i give you a quick story about a blue ceo of a pharma com company, i'm not going to use too many words promise.

I i i'm going all yellow i'm going to talk about the blue one here because that's usually for yellow people. You know most sales people have a dash of yellow in them. Statistically the green color is the most most common one in let's say the industrialized world. Let's call it the least common color is red.

9.5 percent, so that's pretty unique. Usually people have two colors. That's a combination, uh five percent of the population has only one color. So if you meet somebody who's, only red, that's kind of a unique moment which they love to tell you.

My wife is one of those 0.5 of the population. Yes, i'm very unique! So now you better listen, pay attention. She says not smiling, it's not a joke actually, but in in sales, seventy percent of the popular of the people have mostly yellow in their profile. That goes for well the known world, where we do this and 50 languages, 50 million assessments has been made on using this tool, so we have a lot of a lot of statistics, so i met this yellow ceo of this.

This uh pharma pharmaco big pharma corporation and i knew from i would say the second minute he's yellow sorry, he's blue he's, blue, very blue and uh. He stood up and said this meeting is uh 56 minutes. You sit there in that chair because visitors are usually located outside. Why is the beating 56 minutes? Well, he had he had to.

He had another meeting, the next uh uh hour and and it's gon na - take him two minutes to to to go there in the other part of the building and on his journey to what's the other meeting room he had to make this technical pulse. Yes, he had to go to the men's room, the restroom and that took him two minutes because he he knew that because, oh well, we don't want to go into that now. Do we and the thing is so i sent him - i usually sent put the offer down in i say, eight to ten pages and i i wrote 25 pages and an email over to him, because i knew he's gon na ask several questions and then he i Called him up which he didn't call me up. I follow up and i said: okay, have you read my offer? Yes, lots of interesting, interesting titles there.

Now, where is the real offer? Where's the real? You know document and i said yeah. I just want to test you and see if i'm on the wrong right track here. So i put, i stood such a whole night, 80 90 pages i put together, i emailed them over and then i followed him up after a week and he said: do you have more material which completes stone face and i, oh god, so i sent him the Whole documentation, which was probably 300 pages, he didn't call me back and i called him up after two weeks, which is so good salesman should do you know, and i asked him well: are you ready for the decision? Let's, let's have a meeting and he said interesting. Interesting, do you have more material? Are there more information to together, and i said no, there isn't.

I have nothing else to offer you now and he said well, i can't make up my mind. I need more so i couldn't close the deal i couldn't because he needed more, which is a super blue feature. Let's call it yeah somebody sold something to him, probably probably out of desperation when he finally did said, but it's it's interesting, i'm actually as you're telling that story time with something about one of my executives and if he's listening, as you know, exactly who you are Um that they get stuck in that just analysis right like and i know i know many people listening, they can hear that story and say yeah. I know someone like that.

I'm married to someone like that, i am that person. That's constantly like i need more. I need more, i need more. I need more where you know, i'm like ready.

Fire aim. Oh aim later fire again, let's see what happens, throw it and see if it sticks, but there is something to we talk about in in business uh, two in the box. Right having that bold, crazy red and that blue working together in whatever you know, unison, you want because oftentimes the reds can be super crazy and go out and do outlandish things and not be ready for it. Yeah.

Have you seen that same kind of i mean we talk about a lot, certainly in like software businesses, the two-in-the-box formula, it kind of lends to i think and thomas correct me. If i'm wrong in the book chapter 14 to be exact um, you talk about the natural combinations and those that complement each other and then those that are just challenging. So i think that's kind of what you're talking about there. How do they work together? Yes, it's a good point, i mean if you follow the axis, if you go to extroversion, which is uh red and yellow in a co in a combo, that's a natural combination, as is the introversion, blue and green.

They can identify each other's energies, let's say, and they can actually mirror themselves in that and find the right attitude. Some. Some of them are kind of competitive, on the extroverted side and on the introverted side they are, you know, that's the one sitting at any party with a glass of wine and there's a bit to the side. You know observing viewing everybody else dancing on table yellow ones, so these are the natural ones you have.

You have possible combinations when it comes to task orientation over here and and people orientation down there. The task orientation would be the blue and the red one. Usually hiring ceos of the the higher up in the hierarchy, let's say the bigger the corporation, the more the ceo likes to hire red and ye and blue, because they say at least they're focused on the task on the assignment on the job, not socializing and blah Blah blah you know and what he did what about your weekend? I don't care. I don't want to talk about my weekend.

Don't ask me about my kids or my family shut up and work bloody. However, the combo, blue and red has a huge challenge. One of them is the accelerator, and the other one are is the brakes. If you push all the pedals, when you you drive home, if you push all the pedals at the same time, it's going to be a strange kind of drive.

You know, and that is the challenge, because there's the sense of of pace of of are we in a hurry, the blues? They have all the time in the world, you know they could cross an ocean because that's fascinating, i might find something there and the reds. They have lost their patience before you all even finish. The first sentence in the assignment you know - and you have to deal with that - that's a huge difference, it's easier for the yellow one and the green one, because they are more of of let's say one doesn't like to talk, but it's a good listener. The other one can't listen to anything basically and he's a good talker.

Let's say so: they kind of uh complement each other really well, but when it comes to blues and reds and the blues will never take the red one serious because you know you don't you don't know what you're talking about right, you're just up there, you know You know shouting yelling, i don't care, i don't care, because they don't they don't care, they don't care. Actually, you can raise your voice. You can say we're in a higher way where we're closing a deadline. I don't know i didn't put the deadline there.

I'm doing. I'm working with quality here you know right is that deadline even accurate, like who picked that uh-huh? Let's, let's put a bow on this, because i want to actually talk about the new. I want to talk about the new book, but but leave us with this thought before we switch gears um for both of you. Is there a single question or set of questions that i could ask that would quickly determine it or is it best just to use non-verbal cues both? If i, if i power, what do you think you read the book, i think it's a little of both um.

Initially, it's about observation, but again, as what's mentioned earlier, you can miss the mark on your observation. So then not necessarily direct questions like what's your personality. No, but there's questions that you can ask to draw out a conversation for myself and my experience. There's always keywords like you know it's like well, what do you like to do for fun? Well, i don't really do anything for fun.

I automatically cross them out of the red, green or red, yellow, yeah. So just fact-finding questions. I think kind of helps in listening to what's being said, which is another form of observation. Um can help reveal the personality of an individual cool thomas.

That's a that. That's a that's a blue way of looking at it. When the blues are the best analysis, they they analyze things. They can actually really they're really good at starting up and actually do the observation.

So that's five points to you, pamela uh, not that the points was what you were looking for, because this is about being correct. Absolutely thank you for validating how perfect i am yes! Well, um and and the the thing is the thing, is i mean when you when you you can look at body language? You can listen to the choice of words. Let's say bottom line deadline. You know speed up yeah.

Let's talk about mission vision, you know, imaginary thinking, you know, greens talk about. How is this supposed to be done? Uh? I hope there is a plan you know, and the blues usually ask why. Why do we do this? What was the purpose behind? What was the analysis? Could you give me the the the the you know, the let's say what was the prerequisite put to actually starting this process at all? You know, where is where all the critical data you know why why why right, the only one, the red, the only thing the red one is asking is, is what what what should be done here. Let's do it see what's going to happen and what could possibly go wrong and if it goes wrong well happens, sorry phrase, and this is a red body language.

This is the blue body language. This is the yellow one and the green one is more like. Oh interesting, you know yeah no holding their own arms like this and, of course these are stereotypes. I get right and everybody who's watching.

This would understand that too, but there are signs and clues, but you have to ask you said: pam you have to observe and you have to take a step backwards and see okay. What can i learn from what's happening in here? Some people say this: guy who's. Actually facing the wall with his headphone zone, you know he just sits there. It hardly moves stone statue nothing to to analyze, oh plenty of things to analyze there.

I say yes, i love masking right all right. So, let's, let's switch gears. Let's talk about the new book, uh upsets, like did you time that perfectly with what's happening in the world where you're like, i know, what's going to happen next and i'm going to write a book about it right, perfect timing, what's the what's the concept you mean Surrounded by setbacks, i did it. I did the other way around.

Yes, that one, no, no you that was a good queue there, but the the thing is the thing: is i okay? I wrote it in swedish uh during 2019 and i publish it here. This is actually kind of an interesting story. I publish it here in late march 2020.. Good timing, just in the beginning, beginning of you know what sad thing we don't want to talk about anymore and people said to me: okay, you're publishing a book about a book about setbacks and challenges and problems.

Now: okay, well, either you're a genius right or you're. Actually, the idiot we will see the jury's out, i would say yeah, but i actually use the book to i put in there all my experiences. My life has been well, it's been a struggle, i'm not complaining, because i've learned a lot. I've been through hell and high high water.

I i've been through a lot of things who isn't very pleasant. He wasn't very pleasant. I've been chased by media. I've been followed by stalkers, i've been you know in car crashes, i almost died, but who hasn't been through? These things life, so i said to myself: okay you're, using my my my experience and the competence when it comes to personalities.

How could because, usually when you listen to the gurus like like - and there are a lot of super brilliant gurus out there - i mean like like tony robbins and that kind of person who says do this? Do that and he's really inspiring? I love him he's great. However, everybody cannot use the same techniques all the time, which is kind of my my point of view here you have to adjust what you're doing in order to you know, lift yourself up if you feel, if you're in the ditch a red person has to do Something else, then, the green person would have to do which is kind of the thesis in there, but i use my own experiences and say: okay, is it really this hard? I mean. Okay, you dropped your phone in the ocean, okay, bad news. I get that but seriously, if you compare these two, let's say pandemic or lucknow, maybe maybe that wasn't such a big thing.

You know you, maybe you could buy a new self thomas, i'm seeing a pattern here, because you have surrounded by idiots which to me is speaking to emotion, emotional, intelligence from a self-awareness perspective right and now, i'm hearing, surrounded by setbacks. That's talking about self-regulation and control and how to manage those emotions. Is that accurate? In that way, i would say in a way we all have the emotions. I mean the emotion is always correct.

If you feel a certain thing, nobody can say you. You feel this. The wrong way, you can only say maybe we can do something about about how you feel about your actual emotions, uh, but again it's all about self-awareness, it's always self-awareness. Why am i reacting like this when this person enters the room, that that's that's a bully or that's a really, really kind individual? I feel warm or i feel a little bit like this.

You know uh. Could i do something about that when i feel myself stressed out on the bus on my way home and and the kindergarten is calling? When are you going to pick your kids up anyway? You know they're they're, the last kids here as usual, your kids, always your kids. It's never always my kids, you know, but you know you can do something. The world is what it is.

Things will happen to you. It's not so much. Okay, here comes a cliche kind of thing, but i truly believe in this. It's always gon na it's gon na life is a struggle.

Life will always be kind of a struggle, and you never know what you're gon na bump into. But you will bump into something that you won't be pleased with, and you need a strategy to take to help yourself out of the next setback or the next setback. Or the next one or the next one or you know how many will there be? I've had a long, long line of them and i put some of them in the book, some of the more interesting ones, the worst ones i didn't put in the book, because i'm still still dealing with them. You know on an intrinsical perspective, i would say, but uh we we need.

I mean every time that you have something in front of you. That is complicated. If you have a strategy, you will reach further unless, instead of just listen to listen to some kind of person who says well think positively, you know think positive in a way it's better than thinking negative right for a blue person. You need the negative thoughts.

Also, that's just an example: you need to see okay, how bad can this get actually? Okay. These are the worst case scenarios you need to process this. You can't just think positive, because then you have to violate who you are. You should never do that.

That's what the book is about setbacks yep they will come. But how can you deal with them? Tom is one person. A family is another person you won't deal with in the same way. It is just the way it is, but that's okay find your way.

So the book offers plenty of solutions to to that i'm excited about. I am too i'm totally excited about this working with the women that i do work with outside of all the wonderful work i do for you, tom, yes, um. We talk about walking in destiny and walking in destiny, is about dealing with your your life, your design and being able to overcome challenges so that you can stand in the center of your joy. So i'm super excited about that book.

Um. Another tool i'll have to share with people, because i am a fan girl. So i think that's excellent. That's an awesome.

Awesome, awesome concept! Yeah! I love it so thomas as we wrap this up uh. First of all, thank you just for just being you and doing the work that you do and i think everybody uh everybody can relate to that last part because we've all dealt with so many setbacks in our lives and anytime. We can provide people, insight and tools that that keep them inside of who they are and work through it, i think, that's just so much better than you know, maybe trying a different approach trying to be super outside of your own sort of personal comfort zone. Yes, that makes sense, makes sense to me.

I'm actually second guessing that we'll discuss that on another podcast we'll see but thomas as we wrap it up. Uh you mentioned uh your website and you've got an app.