Hey welcome back to the podcast last october, i sat in a room in nashville with a bunch of the top teams from the u.s canada and mexico, and i brought these two up on stage to talk about branding and many of my besties said. That was one of the most interesting conversations around. Should an agent build a brand if they're gon na build a brand? What does that brand mean? How do we implement it? So i've got uh, arguably the brand guy in all of real estate. Ladies and gentlemen, mark davison of thousand watt thousand watt mark in the house good morning.

This is like our third show, yeah right, yes, so mark for the people that don't know you give them like a wee bit of background, then we'll go to jason over here. Uh, i co-founder a thousand watt yep uh creative brand agency real estate um doing this. My whole career yeah started with uh musicians, comedians building their careers, not necessarily their brands but sure um kind of one thing led to another and then in the late 90s i uh moved to the west coast sold that company and got involved in the real estate Industry, right and uh have loved that ever since, and you were back then like way back, like brad emmon reached out to you and said who is this guy writing all these nationally syndicated articles, who i don't know about it, wasn't me writing them. I was representing the writers, that's right and i built his career.

Yes, uh, um and so brett invited me to help build the inman right business and building a brand. I like how you take that very like just you know. No big deal brad invited me to take over the company and write everything and build the brand that we all now know as inman. Yes, nice, yes, so so give us an example for people um context for like a typical project for a thousand watt who who calls you and what do they want you to do? Well, it would be um, it would be anybody who has a problem yeah.

They recognize that as a problem um and realize that they can't solve that on their own. Yes, so they need outside help. Yes, and that's not everybody in real estate, a lot of people in real estate feel they can solve their problems themselves right um. So it starts there and then we figure out like well.

How big is that problem and what is that solution, gon na cost, and then, if they have the budget for that um, then it doesn't matter whether they're we've worked with individual agents all the way up to the biggest companies right in the industry. So it's really about how seriously they take the solution or wanting that solution. So when i jason, when i think about their work, i think about um some iconic moments in in the sort of history of the last 20 years in real estate and whether that was rebranding, re max's website, yeah or it was taking an old brand like bhng And bringing it back to life or or, like you know, the dot loops story right. That was a great one.

That was a that was an iconic moment and i think for the person, that's listening right now, um at the end of the day, i believe you have to do something every 18 months that whether we can declare it as an iconic move is, is you know? That's always, you know questionable, but you've got to do something every 18 months to freshen your look to to bring something new to the marketplace or you you just you kind of slide into. I don't want to say mediocrity, but but maybe you become just a little less relevant in the minds of consumers and agents or whoever it is you're trying to attract or retain his relationships. Is that a fair statement? It's a fair statement. I might disagree with it, though.

Well listen if there isn't some disagreements in this conversation, so so jason we're gon na we're gon na talk about like branding and a lot of agents come to you and they talk about branding. What do they come to you? The most for so when agents come to me, they're, looking to mostly build, i would say, a personal agent brand. They want to be known as the key figure in their marketplace as kanger queen queen king or keem real estate. I can't talk today in their local marketplace, not good timing for a podcast.

I know it's not good timing and they're looking to build it through through video through legion, through social media and those types of channels, but it really has to do with building personal influence and building their business and their persona in the marketplace. Okay, so i didn't bring boxing gloves today, but i am going to ask them. I just don't need to mess with you. We're talking about chuckling.

Is that a threat chuck lindell, your former, you know neighbor um. So so, let's talk like the question is: should an agent build a brand, should an agent should a team? Should a team ridge should have brokerage, but you know a lot of people. Listen to this right now, probably in the agent team category, should an agent team attempt to build a brand yes or no can i i want to roll back the tape. A second go go right in because i i slightly disagree with something you said, and i wanted to clear that up.

Okay, good, i think every 18 months is probably a good time to sit back and reevaluate right, but i think, if you're building brand every day, you should be doing something. Okay, just i want to be clear, i'm not talking like change your logo, but i mean freshen things up like i'll give you the easiest term like we jokingly, will take two agents, business cards and they'll. Both say that they're in luxury, one has a thick card stock and one's a flimsy card. Then i'm like well, it's you know it's very obvious, which one has a luxury sensation to it and which one doesn't right.

So it could be something as simple as that. It could be something as simple as like how many agents do we see like you, you get their card, you look at them, you get their card, you look at them, you get their card and you're like i don't get, it does. Does your daughter? Is she coming also like, like the the the i'm going to say this very boldly, the lie that people put out on the visual to me and then you show up it's like your brand is lying from the get-go, but most people don't get that and that's A minor minor minor example, but it's an important one. Do you remember this is years ago in a small room somewhere where you and i were yeah with maybe 200 other uh we had asked who who has a luxury business and so all the hands that went up? We asked them and collected business cards.

Yes, i'm in a hat and then called in one of the servers, yeah, oh wow, and ask them to to get just pull cards out and to tell us who, based on the card, sells luxury yeah and they couldn't. Because it was all just like you said. Yeah, well maybe they picked a couple yeah out of the 100 cars yeah, so this one's black and shiny this one's lined with gold exactly, but i think we can diagnose the reason why those decisions were made to do a flimsy card which can draw some parallels Between what we're talking about and distinctions may be between what we're talking about yeah um. So what was your question? Should an agent build a brand, not necessarily no, i think, jason.

No, so i'm gon na okay. Why? But why why? I think asians should focus on building their business. Okay, um and building their career and establishing that brand is a it's part of business, but it's a whole separate thing: yeah, not every agent is capable of doing that. It doesn't happen by accident or by default.

It's it requires a lot of work. Yes, but building a reputable. You know reputation and building a business that recurs business every year. That also takes a ton of work.

So to try to do both yourself is really really hard. Okay, i agree. How do you define brand and well - i was gon na this depends upon your definition of a brand yeah. So how do you define it so in the world like i live in the world of building agent? Call them persona call it an identity, call it a brand um.

I don't want to get too nitpicky over the terminology, but really i want to build a known person in a marketplace or a team who people like? Oh, that's so, and so they're they're the best agent or the most known agent, the most recognized agent in the local marketplace, and with that does come certain branding standards. Uh logos, designs websites, all that kind of stuff. Certainly, i think it really would depend on how you define brand, but i look at a brand and i often define a brand in my own simplistic terms as your voice remind your heart. Your face, and i live in a world of personal branding, say that faster.

So we can your voice remind you what your face. How was that i did it i delivered uh. Do you ever see uh the show taxi i've kind of missed? You remember, uh, yeah right, remember, uh, reverend jim, like taking his uh test with the dmv alex? What's the yellow light mean slow down he's like so sometimes, whenever jason, i'm like speed up your voice, your voice, your mind, your heart, your face, i'm a big believer in personal branding, yeah uh. To me, personal branding is the ability to create influence through who you are known through your marketing channels.

Yes, i mean that's a rough definition of it sure um. So i would look at somebody like glenda baker. She certainly has a personal brand she's known through tick-tock through her videos, through what she's doing she's recognizing her community she's recognized in agent circles, and so i would argue, that's a personal brand and the thing people identify with in the brand is ultimately it flows through Her yeah, so it's her point of view through her what she speaks and what she says and her expertise her mind. Her opinions yeah her face.

Yeah um, like that's just for simplistic initial turn like that's how i would define like what i'm looking at when i think about personal branding. What's a brand? Well, it's not that easy to say when you go straight into it. It's already my favorite show ever yes, okay, what is it no, but that's valuable? What what you're saying is totally valuable - and i see like i you know i realize like we - we we're living in times where we, where we are redefining words right. So, like you know, that's an understatement.

Right yeah sure is like facebook is redefining friends. I disagree with you. I just feel like saying yeah, no good. No, i i say that a lot so like i guess it it sure it does.

It depends on your definition of brand but like when you're old school branding like where i come from. It's got a singular definition and you don't like redefine it. It's like luxury like if you start redefining luxury yeah. Well, then it may not be luxury anymore.

Yeah like if you redefine luxury, to mean a three bedroom. Two bathroom fix me upper, but it costs two million dollars in oakland. California is a luxury yeah. Unless luxury is a price point, well, not really luxury, something else.

Yeah uh, it's a state of quality, it's something! It is something else. Yes, so what you're to me? What you're talking about is super important, but that's like reputation so glenda yeah, like what is she known for the things that she's known for, is not unique to her, which he's known for is shared by other agents at that caliber, probably throughout the marketplace. But i would argue that if any brand like starbucks is not uniquely known for coffee, so as pete's so is, but starbucks isn't known for coffee, what are they known for? The starbucks brand is known for being the third place. That's what the brand is about that starbucks was where you went to work when you didn't want to work in the office of work at home.

It became the third place. It's where you would take meetings if you weren't meeting in in uh in your office or so sure, like that's what they built the brand on being the third place, so they found this distinguishing characteristic or quality about itself that only it can own um. Well, it's kind of an aligning story around which they build the business so that, like the things you're talking about, are fundamental they're they're, like a rung on the ladder but they're, not the brand the brand has to like transcend the service you provide. That's all to me reputation, but it has to get to another place where, like that's that's what anchors in my head as like, she's the agent who is always on time or she is the agent that does this as opposed to the agent that sells the highest.

Like quality real estate, because there's others in that so like brand has to be unique to you that you own it completely, and i've used this example before but like in the hotel industry. All hotels are buildings with rooms and beds and bathrooms right. But when you think about what the w owns um, which is style and vibe uh - well, you know like marriott, doesn't own style and vibe marriott owns conference center business, hotel business, hotel business, hotel yeah so like they're treats they're anchoring themselves in these categories, like car Brands do that too volvo owned safety and hondo owns reliability and bmw, owns precision, engineering or ultimate driving and mercedes owns prestige and luxury. Like those those are things that to me, like i look for when you say, can an agent build a brand, it's like yeah.

If you want to figure out what you can own, what category you can completely own and domineer and then build connectivity around, then you get to branding a couple of thoughts. Yeah um you're wrong. I disagree. I agree.

I disagree. Yes uh. I think those things are true, i mean i i get it to me so, like i would say, what's a brand um a brand is the common story or the narrative around which a whole group of people who are building that brand can kind of anchor their Beliefs, their principles, their values, of how this thing this business is to function. What it's all about? Um we talk about.

Starbucks, we talk about marriott, we talk about the w and so forth. I could argue um, they don't own their own classes. They compete in their classes, and so i think it's intrinsically part of a brand that is going to compete with other brands that are in the same vertical in the same columns of that vertical as they are um. I don't think starbucks uniquely owns the third place.

That might be the narrative that they anchored around to say that and to brand themselves to that. But that's like saying: nike owns all tennis shoes, for instance they don't, but they can say things that are defining statements of belief in terms of how they represent and build their business. I would look at let's go back to. I don't mean to make this podcast about glenda, but to me she's just so.

She is iconic as an agent in what way, what makes her iconic well that's what i was going to get to. So we can talk about like luxury agents. We can talk about uh agents who are defined by a certain aspect of their service potentially. But what i find to be so interesting is um.

I think real estate is and always has been a relationship. Business notwithstanding. I don't think people are hired based upon only their relationship, it's the relationship and tandem with some level of competence and expertise and other variables that a consumer would put into the equation of making a selection. Glinda is one of a kind like oh she's, glenda.

That's like saying: oh that's, ellen degeneres, that's like saying that's madonna yeah. There is a certain quality that is attributed to the individual themselves and that's why, when i say like your brand, is your voice your mind, your heart, your face? In essence, what i'm saying is - and this i'm sure there might be a point of disagreement, but this is for the spirit of the conversation that we can say: okay, there's an aligning story around which a brand is built, but when i look at a personal brand That person is the aligning story and it is through the videos they make through their marketing through their content that the consumer starts to figure out who they are. As a person like there's only one tom ferry, there's only one mark david, said um. I would look at like mark just for example, i would say mark reminds me a lot of seth godin.

There are certain aspects about the way you talk about marketing and branding that are just similar to me, but there's only one mark davidson. So i come to know him through that certain lens, if that makes just just kind of getting the conversation, kicked along. That's where my thinking's at so really are we talking about, if you think, for the agent that's listening right now, i believe fundamentally they're, like i just want to be a recognizable and b. I want to be on the consideration set primarily for the people.

That already know me like me and trust me and then for the people that could get to know me like me, and trust me whether they're watching my content or reading a blog or listening to a podcast, or they saw just a just sold card, and they Just like my smiling eyes, so whether it's brand or reputation or just pick me, i think it's all kind of the same yeah for the vast majority of people we're listening to or that that are listening right now is that is that fair? I would agree. It's like blending the two yeah because you're right, like building the nike swoosh, is hard yeah and expensive yeah and requires way more talent than the average person listing. This myself included right to actually go out and implement that, and yet most agents are lost in a sea of sameness right now right, i see the example all the time of like walk down the potato chip aisle and it's the same thing as going to realtor.com And trying to select an agent all right. So on that note, and i wonder if we can reach agreement here, because it's so competitive if you're trying to build and and win on your face on on facial recognition.

Sure it's just not enough because, like our personas, our faces change over time yeah, but like the one thing, but not always on our pictures. But i head to my bed voice, mind heart and face yeah, but all those things change over time, but brands they build. The foundational elements that build brand are supposed to stay intact for a long time so, like while things change and team members can change um. If, if the core foundation of a brand, which is not the five things that you said, that, i can't remember, say it fast, it comes out easier yeah, but to me they're built more around purpose and promise and vision and mission and execution of those things.

Because those are are like structurally, like they're built so deep into the earth uh of your brand like they're, unmovable and um, then then, when you have those things uh and you're, you had said something also about it's: it's what all the team members bring into uh. Well, i i think i said it's the aligning story or narrative around which people anchor themselves to as sort of that central point of everybody agrees that the brand is okay. So i agree completely with that. It's not about your personal belief, because we have this in our company.

You can bring a lot of own personal things, 2000 watt, but once you join, you have to adopt the thousand-watt belief system right and if you can't execute that belief system or you wake up one morning, you don't feel like it. So you you can do that as a personal. In my mind, a personal brand - you can be this today and that tomorrow, when you're a brand brand and maybe what we're all talking about here is really just brand, not take the word personal out yeah. You know because, like once, once you track toward building that it actually becomes a lot easier because you could take yourself out of it and you're building awareness and recognition around a thing right um.

I would add this to that. Like that point of view, if you're a new agent or a solo agent or you're early on in your business, i suspect i know it would be very difficult to be very definitive about. My principles are x, y and z. My mission statement is this: i think that'd be quite a workshop to go through when you're inexperienced, and so i would offer encouragement to a new agent um.

If you took the route of start making videos start being an expert start serving your customers start being known your community through that process, you will start to find what are the core values that define how i do business. What does make me unique - and i think it'd be an iterative process of getting to a point where maybe you do hit a certain level of status in your personal business, where you say: okay, it's time for a sit-down? What is the anchor for this brand around? Which everybody builds? Does that make sense it does, but i think you got to do it completely the other way. No! No! No! This is great, but here's why i love his mind. I'm gon na go to the restroom i'll, see you guys later.

No no, but here's! Why? Because i think everybody you most people grow up um and are taught like family beliefs like this is what you believe as a family. If you're gon na go out into the world and be a fairy, you need to represent these beliefs. Yeah so by the time you're ready to be an agent, i think you can sit down and jot down a handful of things that you hold dear. I agree with that.

Let's so, let's start with that, because this is good, because my question is: where does someone start? I don't so. This is perfect because i wouldn't i would not submit that you should start with no principles or no ideals. Yeah - and i didn't i didn't yes take that but like you were getting to like execution first and i think you need to take a moment, i would call it discovery, but my discovery is like first discover like what do you? What do you? What means everything to you? What is your belief system? What is your world view whatever like? What do you see out in the world that you have a feeling about or a position about, because that then becomes the content that you create? Okay, so like, rather than just going out and because here's what most agents do they they respond to the that trigger of go, create content. Yes, so what they do, is they copy? What other people have done and so like? That's how they start by they're? Not they don't have an original thought they're doing what they've seen successful by other agents.

Could i comment on that? Yes, i don't mean, i don't want to block your train of thought. I find like i mean if you look at like social studies, just for instance, um kids learn through imitation. Specifically, they learn through imitation of kids, who are slightly above, where they are just slightly above. If they're too far gone, they have a difficult time grasping what they're doing, but if they're the next level and then the next level, it's something to chase.

There's a built-in learning mechanism there and i've also realized cause. Like i teach a lot of hey here are the top five videos to make, and i give those types of lists and then, two months later, when i go to make my next presentation, i have a whole new set of samples here than now. The top five videos to make, because it's impossible for somebody to truly rip off and duplicate verbatim when they make a copy. What somebody else is doing.

I have always found that they do something differently. They they add that yeah to the equation. Yes, but they're not clear what that them is yet that's the discovery. So this is your so so how does somebody figure out like it? It's like my mentor mike vance, said to me when i was like okay, what is mother teresa jack walsh? What are the what like steve, what do they have in common he's, like they all answer the five fundamental questions and they live by him and i was like and then he gives me the five questions and then i spend the next year trying to answer them.

Trying to answer them in the most tom fairy real way possible, and it wasn't until a year late and then, a year later, i left my dad's company. You hit me like people like what i'm like it's, because i got so clear on who i am what i stand for. What what do i value right beyond just having company mission and value like what do i value and what is the order of that and then what is the dent i'm gon na make on the universe like like and that's just like, but those five questions yeah. Those are fundamental to me right so so what are the questions? I really need to like the person listening right now: they're they're 15 years in the business they're 15 days in the business and they're like yeah, like what do, i really believe is important about home ownership.

Or, what's my personal story like, why did you get into? Why did you get into real estate because i was watching million dollar listing and i i want to be ryan, sir? Okay, so you know what that's great and go and make as much money as you can and don't worry about, building a brand yeah. But if you got into real estate because you believe in something yup write, it down write down that book. Just write that belief down and then think about what are five things you can do to uh like disseminate that belief through whatever you create. So i think those lists you're creating are great.

Here are five things you should do just imbue them with, because the only thing that we have that we can really truly call unique to us are our belief system. So my belief system is me and like how i so i use this early on. I probably none of nobody. Listening remembers this, but when i start a thousand watt, i i still have it hanging in my office.

It's a little tear out note sheet of like a hand, wrote 10 beliefs, and one of them was to be really really candid. In my compliments of real estate, but also the things that i find wrong with critiques yeah and and if you look back at our early, my early writing hourly writing. As a group me and brian, like we were challenging so much right, but in 2009 we created this video, i'm not a lead. Remember seeing that yes - and we really called out like this whole mindset of like lead, which is still to everybody's still generating leads today.

Right but the reality was like this was uh sound bites from real people who want real estate to start viewing them as people not leads right. Yes, um boy that that when i, when we put that i had like 30 000 views and within a month um and it resonated, but what it did was it positioned us now we're the guys who are like calling out mm-hmm we're the guys who are standing Up and going that's that's the year by the way he commented on one of my blogs and everyone thought he was tearing into me, but he was like well, i don't understand fairy what about this and this well. That was based on my belief system to just try and call out good and or not good, in real estate. Yes, so, but you were amazing and how you responded to that and it came from a good place and we became good friends.

So i think, as long as you jot down some, because if you can't jot anything down well then you're going to just execute you know, tactics without substance yeah. Well, it's strategy versus tactics, macro versus micro yeah. So all right! So where does someone start? I think they have to acknowledge where they are in their business in their career. So the first thing i have to do like i can't map a destination until i map where i am today, so i think the questions you ask like.

Why did i get into real estate? Do i have any wildly ambitious goals with real estate, because maybe they don't and maybe they're in a period of i call it discovery, you might call it seeking or something along those lines, but maybe it's okay. To give yourself permission to say, i am going to use what other agents are doing and try to make it my own until i can find my sea legs so to speak, and then, through that process, i'll put a calendar event a year from today to reevaluate What have i learned? What do i believe, how am i moving forward? Can i comment on that because i'm in a room surrounded by musical influences? Yes, so i don't know who said this, but it was said that a good musician or good songwriter borrows from other songwriters. It was bob dylan bob, a great songwriter steals some other songwriters yeah, i'm pretty sure it was deadly, so like uh, it might be dylan. Oh there's there's he talked about ideas in the air that he would steward the idea.

All all the everything that's been created has been created, there's nothing new under the sun. So it's it's your spin on it. So like to your point, and i'm agreeing with you like, if you want to be nice, he said that, are we noted? Okay uh, it's two to nothing, no dude! I just so. You know.

I watch your videos. I follow you like i'm into what you're saying um and i think like if personal brand is a goal that you need to set for your customers. That's great. I would say that like.

If you you need to get there, then maybe there's another level between personal brand and then brand brand yeah. So, like that's, i think you've you can't get to here without getting to what you're talking about, and i think a lot of agents when they're down here. This intimidates them because there's really. No, i understand that yeah it's hard as hell to build a brand.

So is there an argument for or against like when i reflect back on my early days of like my 2007 youtube channel versus my 2009 youtube channel? I was, it was abt, it was just always be testing yeah, throw throw out. There see what resonates see. What doesn't and that you know you you i i don't think i really so this is kind of crazy. I don't think we really refined it till this year, like where i actually went narrow and nichey and didn't didn't care about how many views i got on a particular show, but i was more committed to meeting the needs of the individual.

That is wanting that information. Does that make sense yeah? How does that play into building a brand, creating a reputation right? The building blocks of all that we're discussing here? I think that um, if you're in, if you're, still in the process of throwing things out there, to see what sticks. That means that you're searching for something, so i would say that you're not you're, not at the brand level, yet because a brand has a sort of a manifesto that it's working from it knows exactly what it is and i want to. I want to be clear: like 2007, then we figured it out 2009, but i think i refined it this year.

I think you refined it sooner. Okay, i remember talking to you. So maybe it was seven years ago because i remember exactly where i was. I was crossing the street from my building.

I was in my car sitting in front of my mother-in-law and you would call me to ask me what the tom ferry brand represents. I remember remember that conversation um and i wrote down systems for success. Yeah like to me it all everything that i have been observing all plowed down to like that one thing that you teach people systems. If you follow these systems, you will be successful.

That way, that's what you were known for yeah and i think in the last couple of years, you've really uh. Maybe it's all the contributing factors and the people that are all working towards this one thing or creating content that all points right back to that and um. So, like that's clear to me, i now know where you fit in my mind: you're, not just a coach yeah like tom ferry, the coach yeah, that's a personal brand, but you're more than that today, so being like, i don't know glenda. So i can't comment on her because she may be the madonna real estate and really have a brand brand um.

But a lot of agents are just like so and so uh the agent who owns a neighborhood or so, and so the agent that sells high-end. But it's not enough. That's like a utility, that's that's the feature. I would ask a question.

I would argue, that's a good start. It's a great start. I mean because i yeah, i think, there's an elasticity to branding so like it can have large scale brands. But i think it scales down too, i mean even if it's down to a micro area, but i don't want to.

I don't want to block your train of thought. No, i think i was i was nearing the the train was near. The train was that the final stop so, but i want to go back and so so you know: here's bob dylan yeah david bowie, you know and then over here i got lou reed iggy pop and bowie, like so jimmy um, darth vader, my dog um dog, Vader you look at all these, these iconic individuals and there's there's so many iconic individuals in the real estate space. I would argue that dave lineage is an iconic figure in real estate, right, whatever you hallucinate, you know what i mean like, and you know you can look at gary keller.

There's no argument. Barbara corcoran there's so many people that have done this, but every one of them did a little r d, a little rip off and duplicate. Oh yeah, a little. Let me put my spin on this.

Let me put my flavor color of lipstick. I'm an amalgam of like every great mentor that i've grown through right, but you know like what i've learned to do is apply my own bingo, my own thing to it. So so i think it'd be interesting for the person listening right now to to just write down either your first or last name and then put method behind it right like we. We we will debate now and then, like should a team call themselves, the hooby doobie team, or should they just be the davison team right? You know the fairy team right like using your last name, people like no.

I think you need to have it if you want to be saleable, i'm like i don't know. Barbara corker did okay with corcoran group yeah. That was just her last name. Ladies and gentlemen, like it all worked out, barbara said she didn't call it.

The barbara cochran group, i know i know corporate that's what i'm saying like. If you had your last name method right back to this point, is i think you you should list out like everything that you do, that you believe is unique or special in your local marketplace and have that like this is the that i do. This is what i stand for. This is how i serve my clients.

This is my process, because if we look at consumers today, yes, you look fantastic and, yes, you've sold some houses, but do you have a plan to help me buy a house and most agents? Don't have a plan right, i mean i'm gon na put you in the mls and i'm gon na show you that's already sold you with me, like so having a method having, i think it's it goes to the question i want to start with, which is. We talked about like where does somebody start and then i started thinking like what are the building blocks? So what are the building blocks? How do what are the? What are the essential things? I've got to have in place quote-unquote to have a combination of the two things that we are that we both own, which is your five things that i can't remember face before yeah um, your face voice, your voice, mind and heart sounds cute, i'm gon na. Can i reinterpret those yes to come up with a new list yeah? That is a perfect combination. Yeah, let's do it.

So to me face is not your physical face. The face is the identity that you present to the world. Could i i want to add to you that if i could yeah, please we're we're building something, so i think it depends on who the person is um. There are some people who want their face to be recognized and that's fine, but like i'm actually thinking about companies like uh keeping current matters, keeping current matters is trying to be more of a brand.

That is not one person in particular correct. Necessarily, how do you move away from steve harney right and develop? Well, they moved away from harney because it's really dangerous like david is and then you got bill who's the ceo and who most people have no idea who he is and and that's by design right. That's by his design, clayton from housing, wire same thing, right, yeah, great, ceo, huge, you know, sort of you know inman housing wire, but no face yeah, but i would agree: identity, identity, so identity is not logo. It's an all-encompassing behavior! It's actions! It's like your participation in the world to me.

That's face yeah um. I think agents always interpret it as like. That's my physical face yeah and maybe there's something to that, but there's more to that like the face has to. If i see your face, i need to think of something like what does that face trigger for me yeah.

So i think it's about behavior and action and, like your participation as a entity in the world voice, is um what we call in brand building tone and voice. So that is like it's. That's your lexicon. It's the words you use, so it it means.

If you want to be a brand, that's bananas! Okay! What's on the other side of that, let's go go! This was just at a virtual event. It says lexicon surprisingly, yes, but like building out a vocabulary of terms that you use yeah um, because my language, my my like we know like every community, every culture right every tribe, there's a language of words that they use that you're, like oh i'm in the Tom ferry ecosystem, so in other words you can't say that, like you know, people mean everything to me, but then at the other side of the table, you're talking about lead generation, because that's not people yeah, there's that right. So, like it's being very conscious of like how you phrase things how you write copy, you know what your grammar is. What your flow is, how you sound like in the world yeah um.

So that's that's what i would call voice. My voice is misspelling. Almost everything. Sorry mark, if you're out there listening, you might achieve copyright.

No i'm like i'm a little sloppy with my spelling yeah. So what's what's mind so mind is like that's the i think that, like that's, that gets into world view, that's your soul, heart and soul. The things that you talk about, but like heart and soul, has to be based on something you know important like what do you believe in um and, like i don't know if i've ever talked about the grateful dead on your show before, but like out of all The bands ever the grateful dead had a brand that was bigger than bigger than any other brand uh, except for maybe the beatles, because it was based on a belief system that they had about music and jerry used to always say like once once we play it, It belongs to the world right, so he allowed taping yeah and the grateful dead even provided um sections of their of their audience, where tapers were allowed to go and set up their microphones and tape, their shows and distribute their shows because he believed the music belonged To the people yeah, so they activated so like, but that was based on a world view and that that mindset played into how they acted in the world, so they're all tied together. This was me deciding i'm gon na, give all my content away for free, yeah right back in like 2007, 8 9 10 and getting phone calls from competitors saying what are you doing, you're destroying the industry and i was like or i'm helping it yeah yeah, i'm Trying to reach more i'm evolving it i'm yeah, i'm not waiting for somebody to come to one of my seminars.

I want to put it out there and to that point, so i would also say that, along with that idea of mind to me, someone encapsulates your competence, your expertise, the actual thing you're doing is your knowledge, your ability to transfer skills right, especially in this day And age of buying a house yeah right, so i love that so this is also strategy tactics. That's the secret sauce on some level, um heart heart! I wonder: if that belongs, i i think we were conflating them a little bit. Yeah yeah yeah. So, to me, mind is more the like look.

I asked the question of a lot of agents lately. What do you sell and it's kind of a loaded question and what we've arrived at is in a very simple sentence. You sell your expertise and the means by which you convey that expertise, um, ultimately, you're a service based business you're, a transaction facilitator, a broker. We can find lots of words to describe it.

But, to me mind is how are you going to help me? Do the thing i'm trying to do, the consumer asks buy, sell, invest whatever it is. How you can help me do that. It's with your mind, which could include experience, but it also includes confidence. Yeah yeah agreed yeah so that that all feels like three three to nothing, three to nothing, just blank.

We agree repeatedly with you mark all right so so i don't like that. I like to be disagree with. I disagree that you disagree with that. Well, good because - and i also disagree with the disagreement - okay, what is heart then so heart is the passion.

That's like how it's the passion that you put so i'll. Tell you a story um. I won't name names, i'm trying to buy a house um and it's very do you need a good real estate agent? Well, i i thought i had a good one yeah, you didn't talk very quickly by the way and then i realized i didn't, and then i went to a second that house that you were talking about. I didn't work out yeah, i know um, and so when i went down there like i reevaluated my situation, uh met the person and realized like they were really just a really good agent.

That sells a lot of real estate. Um long story short by accident by a complete quirk of the universe, i met somebody who was already planning her exit out of real estate. But when hearing my situation, she said i'm going to help you and i promise you. I am going to find you a house.

This is in an insane market where homes are uh like many markets where it's just like, whatever you bid you're going to get outbid yeah um. So she made me this promise straight up. I promise she goes. I promise you that i will find you, your house and i'm gon na find it for you before a certain date um.

Unlike the other two agents she was driving around, she was whatever she had a plan: here's how yeah and here's how well long story short we're closing uh before the date uh, which is this friday. This coming friday, she fulfilled that promise and i think, like this is a really important branding to be able to make a promise, because people like certainty, people like guarantees, some of the great all the great brands in some way, shape or form whether it's like fedex. It promises to get the package overnight. You absolutely need it, but you count on that.

So, if you could make a promise, which is very hard for real estate agents and brokerages to do, is to make a a promise with absolute certainty that they can back. But if you can get there and deliver that like this is a woman who really she is so uh understated works for a tiny, tiny little brokerage that is on no one's radar was already planning to get out of the business because she kind of doesn't need To be in it, given her financials and her family's financial situation, she went to work and worked harder because of some belief system that she had some some heart heart and mind, and she made a promise she kept to it and so like she now lives. In my world, not as a great agent but as somebody who i can depend on somebody who says what they mean so there's a lot of talk about like creating a brand promise right and it's the hardest thing to do it's. I was just going to say that thank you because it's like what i don't need to see is another business card that says trustworthy.

That doesn't mean anything or or you know, promise is kept. Like i actually said when i would get those cards, i would say: if you really want to kill it, you should put on here we're number two. We try harder like avis, i thought ava said like we're, not number one, but we will work our face off to help you and and like. I think that that's always worked against them not to break.

I know i know, but i would show up at the ava's desk and i would ask a question: we can't help you and i would always you try harder to try harder, but but you, but my point is like having that sort of uh so catchy stupid. Word right that doesn't, that means a million things to a million people and something to you and it's not clear when you say integrity, honesty, values, those are trustworthy. You know, i don't believe in value. Yes, i disagree with you.

I think you believe in values. You don't believe in marketing values or having that as the center stage of like. Well, i think you should have values. Yes, i think what your agent did that was fascinating is she said i promise and that she had a very specific promise.

That was that was contextual to the market. How are you gon na right um? How are you gon na do that? How are you - because this is empty words? There was a there's, a two-sided question that i heard once that i just always love and i think it's useful when you're trying to ask like what is contextually. What is the promise i'm going to make and it's uh? What are you writing values? Okay, you're good um, it's what's the problem, my customer. Has they don't want? What's the result they want that they don't have, and i call it x marks the spot, because the answer is the same, but it goes from a positive or a negative spin and i think what your agent did is more or less she realized.

What's the problem facing mark, the problem is that the market is so darn competitive, no matter what he bids on he's going to lose out, and so he needs an agent who's willing to go the extra mile beyond what any other agent would do to get him. A house and she fulfilled that promise and i'll tell you what she did because, like most people, you look in the price range you could afford. So the price range i could afford uh is not a real price range. No it's because, because all these things, this is an auction right, auction right.

So what she did was she found a home for me that had uh many of the things that were really important like space land and views yep, but she found something that was, i wouldn't call it a tear down, but it was in need of a lot Of work um, but she has a crew yeah. She has a plan, she has a plan. So she came to me and said this house has: all of the all it needs is just to have the whole inside redone, but i could end up with more than what i wanted for less based on. So it wasn't like she just manufactured something out of thin air like she just just approached it differently: okay, so here's the i'm i'm being the listener.

Right now tell me if this is your question in the comments. How do i scale that? How do i, how do i turn that into something? Because if you just start saying to every presentation, i promise i'm gon na get you a home like that's, not what we're talking about. No, you can't start from a promise. Promise is the very last thing right.

You start from a core belief system, okay, so we got that part down. So what are some of the building? What are the key assets? So i wrote this down because i wanted, because i said it and i want to tackle this you're like i'm, not answering your question fairly. Let's go to this one. Most people have core belief, core values, yeah and when i said i don't believe in values, i don't believe that you can execute values.

I think values all sound, good integrity, honesty sophistication, but they don't mean anything right. So when somebody says well, honesty is my core value, i always say what does honesty mean. Give me an example of what being honest is and whatever they say, go. That's a belief.

Write that down yeah because, like um values, are just most real estate. Companies all share the same value system, but you don't really see them executed properly in the world, so i think, having beliefs and creating those it always. It is like the main foundation yeah. So you do the we believe that we we believe.

We believe that every client matters you know we believe that, but that that's not as strong. You know. We believe we believe we believe exactly right and it's those things you now look at those things and go. How do i activate those beliefs so yeah like i? I would go so because i'm a brand agency, i would look at beliefs.

I would also look at something i call attributes. You mentioned those things earlier. You didn't call them attributes. You just refer to those as things yeah um, but you actually create a list and we typically create a list of three to five, really strong, clear attributes.

That sum up the persona of the group of the brand um. We then look at those attributes um. They have to be tied to the beliefs. So if you believe in certain things, your attributes needs to express that, and then we consider two things: does your name like bill smith, articulate that in any way shape or form or could it because sometimes you get so here's an example uh we had a call From a team back when we weren't doing teams and they wanted to hire us to say we don't really work with teams, that's our thing.

We don't work with teams they're hard to do yeah, so you can't convince me to do it um i got. She convinced me, but here was the thing they were called uh the michael silva. No, the michael williams, team, yeah um michael silva, was the uh sort of the rainmaker of the team uh, but he went with michael williams as a brand name. My reality around that is i'm talking to the three women that run, that company he's just out there just figure and i'm like.

I don't see how you can build brand around michael, a a guy's name when it's three power, women running it like you're, going to need a different name, yeah and she said then give us one and that to me was like i can work with that person. They're now open yeah, um, and so what we built for them was a brand name, they're based out of houston, and we call them happen. Houston uh, because they're they're kind of like they build houses as well as cell they're. Making things happen so like that name embodied like the character and the soul, so i think, like all those things should tie together the one last piece that i want to add to this.

Is you really need to understand who your customer is like? Who is your primary customer if you're willing to work with anybody, then you're gon na probably yeah alter yourself and your beliefs uh to make it work for everybody? But if you're really clear who your primary customer is and radiate your thing, you will pick up more of those primaries right. Uh and you'll deliver a better service to them and you also attract people that want to be that. Do you want me you do that. I don't you do that.

I know that like but a lot of people, so if you're listening right now. First of all, i'd love comments about this um, because this is a great debate amongst agents and teams and brokerages like well. No, i want to attract everybody, and my response is well. Then you kind of have to live with what it is.

You attract yeah right, but if you're like my ideal client is abc, it's a millennial, buyer who's, 27 years old who's got a fico score of 710. Who you know wants to get a deal because her parents put her hands on us and when we bought a house we got a deal, but you know needs to understand today's market, like you're super deep you're, like that's my avatar. Now, how do we serve that person? What are her problems? What are her challenges, and how do we build a system around that? Then you know what you attract: a ton of those people and people that kind of identify like that that the 55 year old, that's like i want to be 27 year again right, so i'm gon na dress. That way, and look that way, that's my experience, but i'm curious for the person watching.

What's your what's your take, should we try and attract everybody, or should you have a little more narrow niche? I think the more the more narrow your niche is and the more you continually repeat what you're great at with the people who regard that greatness, the better, the greater you get at what you're great at right. If you keep doing this and that for the oh, then you're never perfecting yourself yeah. So, like i'd like to say - and i can say this - that because of the way in which we onboard people we have great, every client is great. We don't have a problem.

Client, because we're attracting like-minded because we're all like kind of beating the same drum and there's a word that we haven't used, which i bet you can talk, a lot about, which is community yeah um, if you're a really good brand. If you're a brand you'll build a community, you'll have community, not just customers and not just clients, but you're cr. You both have built fantastic communities, i'm trying to build a community yeah around us. We have i'd, say people that respect us and like us, but i don't know that i've created a community um now back to doing turn on again we're gon na we're.

I'm not officially announcing it on your show, but i'm not unofficially saying that we're not gon na do it. You didn't hear it here. First, you didn't, i didn't say anything.