All right, everybody, what's going on, welcome to tui talk, show episode number seven. I've got a real special guest today he is actually one of my first trading friends that i ever um really got close with and he's uh he's, crushing it right now and i'm really excited to have him on as a guest. He had one of his biggest trades of all time, uh just a couple days ago and we're gon na go over that go over kind of who he is. You know his journey as a trader, how we met and um you know just some other general trading stuff.

Maybe he's got some pretty cool uh views on the overall market too. I know so maybe we can talk a little bit about that and if you guys do have any questions for them. This is live so be sure to ask it in the chat and we'll be going over all that. But without further ado, i want to introduce my good friend, jordan o'guin.

Take it away. Um tell us a little bit about yourself who you are, how we met and kind of how you're doing i'd love to love to hear it hold on. But before you do, let's, okay now you're good good to go good to go uh, so i started trading in 2019. Um had some really good teachers.

I knew dominic master matteo from high school and we were uh. We worked a landscaping job together and um. He was my foreman and then he ended up moving on to bigger and better things aka day trading, and i was still doing the landscaping thing and then every other day his brother would be like. Oh dominic made this amount of money or that amount of money day trading, yadda, yadda and uh.

I would just be like wow like blown away he's like tripling my paycheck in a day, and so that kind of sparked my interest and long story short ended up. Dropping out of uh school to just see what i could do and it wasn't really going anywhere. So i reached out to dom and asked him if i could come, you know, watch and see what he's doing and how he's doing it and back then it was all about otc and so that kind of kick-started the journey um jack kellogg was there at that Point - and so i just kind of before i even got my footing. I was just surrounded by these like awesome teachers, and i was just way out of my league and uh learned the otc and then the otc kind of died.

So i kind of had to move on to listed stocks and kind of took some of those otc principles and adapted them to list it and found somewhat of a long strategy with first green day and buying breakouts and yada yada and two years later now. We're here no that's uh yeah, that's i mean it's a fantastic story. It's very similar kind of to the way you know i first got started when i first started training i was. I was also in college and um.

I mean much like jordan and i both dropped out and fortunately fortunately we uh, i think it ended i'd, say it ended up working out for us right, yeah so far, and so a little back story. You know when i kind of first got into trading. You know matt monaco and i had our podcast beyond the pdt and uh one of the earlier people. I want to say that we interviewed was dom master matteo and we kept in contact with them, and you know we came became friends with them.

You know even outside the market and got to meet a lot of you know. Dom's friends and jay. Bones was one of them and uh. I know jay bones and i were in like a very similar spot trading right.

You know: j-bones got started 2019. I got started uh. Well, i guess it depends on what you classified started. You know or started um.

I you know everyone. I don't know, maybe not everyone uh, but back back, then the market wasn't nearly as hot as it was like. 20. 20.

20, 21 - and it was much more cyclical like j-bone, said right uh and by the way j-bones is uh. Jordan, that's that's his uh. If you check down to the twitter, that's his twitter name um his nickname, but it was. It was much more cyclical and right so when otcs right, oh, they were popping off um.

I want to say that was during the bitcoin run is when they really started and they went into beginning of 2018 um shmp stuff, like that. Having these crazy multi-day multi-week moves, but then, when those died, you know there a lot of times. There were a few weeks where there was just nothing, and i was looking back through some charts of gappers from 2018 in the small cap sector, our sector. But you know what i mean: small caps that you just gap up 50.

They would literally within 15 or 20 minutes, be underneath previous day's lows like giving back all their gains, and so there wasn't a ton of long opportunity and a big part of that right was just a lot less volume. Every day i mean now we have commission free trading, we have day trading, everyone wants to get into it, it's kind of all the hype these days, but it wasn't the same back then, and so, where i was going with, that is, you know i got technically Started end of 2017, but you know by by the time mid 2018 came around, otcs were kind of dead, small caps were kind of dead, and i i had school going on. I was working and i just kind of took off a few a few months really, and so then i really started picking it back up heavy uh end of 2018 early 2019 and still struggled quite a bit. I'm sure jay bones.

If you wan na i'd love to kind of hear your your journey, you know your first year right because i know it's really tough. A lot of traders get into this they're, seeing these huge p l's on twitter they're like all right. I want to make all this money too and before you know it they're they're down, because they thought it'd be a lot easier to make money. They don't have those risk management practices so like during your first year.

You know before 2020 and then we'll get into 2020 and 2021 as well. But what was your experience like as as a trader as a beginner trader uh? So 2019 was like the tail end of one of the hottest markets ever fall and winter of 2018 was absolute insanity for the otc, and i remember i started february 11th or 13th 2019 and my first day in the office, uh, dom and jack were looking at A stock called vyst and it was like a two or three cent stock. Can i interrupt you real, quick, it's important to note uh for those of you that don't know you guys all know jack kellogg dom they used to live together. I don't know if, like that, that was you know, i'm sure that's you know.

Some people know it, but if you guys are maybe new or didn't know they used to live together and so j-bones you would go there and be with both of them. Correct yep, uh jack was living with um um. He moved out from connecticut, for i think, like a year or so, and this was when he had like 120 grand to his name, but my first day in the office. They had that ticker up on the screen and from how they described a breakout.

To me, everything made sense, and so i ended up getting in with like 50 risk or something like that, and my first day i made like 500 or something, and so i was like got the worst impression you possibly can get. I mean it was good to make the money but to walk in and just have something fall on your lap. It gives you an impression that ends up hurting you in the long run, because uh after that trade, i spent six months pretty much giving away my entire account, because i was just uh. You know thinking that every every chart that had the same shape as voist was just bound to work when that wasn't the case, there's a lot more to it.

Obviously, and so i had to quit in september of 2019 and uh got a job cooking thai food, and so i at that point i was just like okay well, this is my life now so um just gon na see. If i can get a raise and maybe make like 40 grand a year eventually or something but uh, so i did that from september to april of 2020 and then in april of 2020, that was, after the market crashed and lockdowns, and we obviously got that, like Quantitative easing from the federal reserve and basically all of that inflation was just getting priced in in the matter of like a month, so every single stock was just flying up and so april is really when i started to look back at the charts and be like You know - maybe maybe otc isn't the answer, but maybe listed stocks, maybe there's something to it that i can find an edge on and make something happen. So i started trading again in april just applying some of those otc principles to some of the listed runners. I was seeing and was able to get to a point where i was confident that, like i could try it again.

I had saved up some money from working um. I was ready to give it another shot, so then by may 15th, i think i quit that job and decided to go full time again and go back to their office and um. You know just give everything a shot and uh since since may of 2020. I've been green every month since then, so i'm super fortunate about that, but yeah.

I never really looked back from that point and just been very blessed now. I have to ask during that time where you you took off to start working and whatnot. I don't even know if i i really know this, because i think you and i started talking - was it before it couldn't have been before uh. You got really back into it.

I think it was like may of 2020 like right after you got back in um. During that time, where you took took off, you know some time from trading. Were you looking at any charts ever? Were you just completely completely out of tune with the market? I'd say i was like 99 sure that i wasn't gon na trade again um, i would look at. I would still keep up with my buddies and kind of watch the trades they were making and admire it and whatnot, but i didn't really have it in my head that i wanted to go back, so it was just kind of like a outsider perspective.

I wasn't studying, wasn't trading um, i was just working out like six days a week to keep myself distracted. Just working and working out was about it but yeah. So i'm definitely curious to hear this too um, and i guess i know the answer because again you and i traded together for like every day we just we just get on phone calls with each other um. But when you got back into it, you were still using pretty small size right i mean you, didn't you didn't drastically, increase your size or anything you just kind of kept it relatively uh common reserved.

Is there a reason for that, or was it just didn't? Have enough money to use big size at the time or was were you trying to get back into it with small size? I, when i came back, i put like four thousand dollars, maybe thirty five hundred dollars into an account, and so obviously pdt was a big issue and uh. I was trying to find someone that would invest in me to get me above pdt but um. My parents weren't having any of it, so i went to my grandparents and they were like well, you know. Look you have to.

You have to show us something first, before we're going to give you this money, so i had 4 000 and then those first few months. I turned that into like 8, 500 or 9k, or something like that, and so by july july or august of 2020. I had grown the account enough to where you know i explained to my grandparents. Like you know my money's just gon na sit on top of your money and i'm obviously not gon na use.

Your money to trade with but being above pdt would be night and day difference. Obviously, anyone who's ever day traded knows that. So i finally convinced the grandparents to give me the money and yeah. I think it was july, but after that, that's when it really it just kick-started everything, because when i had that money being able to trade more makes, you want to study more and then being able to study more.

You start to see more, and you know you you just kind of compound on yourself at that point. No, absolutely and um it's it's interesting, because i've i've heard so many different stories from like people who you know a lot of people or maybe not a lot. But people grew their accounts out of pdt. Some people saved that money outside from working while they were trading, which is you know what i did um and then you know other people.

I've see i've seen people literally take out like credit card loans right like they've, taken cash advances on their credit cards um. Was that, like more stressful to you, knowing that you know you have someone else's money in your account. I know it was different because you're like i'm, not using your money, you know, but was that did that like have some kind of motivating factor like if i, if anything happens like what happened, were you ever worried about like a full-size loss ever wiping out the Account, well i mean back. Then the the patterns were just so different.

There were clean risk levels, i was never. I was just never irresponsible with the money i was risking. It went from 50 risk to 100 risk and you could you could confidently risk a single spot on the chart versus now, where you kind of have to risk uh. You know a whole range basically and then you know you're expecting the stock to come back to that range and test it and you're, seeing how it reacts to it.

But back then you could find one price and risk it. So i was usually pretty confident. I wasn't gon na lose a lot and uh. I was never really scared with the money, because i was, i was just never even tempted to use it.

I was just so thankful that someone was willing to invest in me, so i was never even gon na think about like betraying them like that, so so no, i wasn't. I wasn't too worried absolutely, and that's one thing too, to note is like one of one of the the most important things. I'd say that you know i learned from dom when i was like when we were talking together. All the time like you me and dom, and all of them risk management is huge right like that and that's unfortunate.

Obviously, we know that right, that's something we emphasize all the time and a lot of people emphasize. Although i see a lot of people on twitter too, who are like, oh it doesn't matter like just just hold, buy the dip buy the dip, buy the dip keep buying. But like one thing that that like really really stuck with me um and you know it probably comes back from the just i'm sure if you, if you guys, know tim sykes or see him on twitter, he always sees cut losses quickly, but dom like made sure I stuck to that and i'm sure he did with you too, like you don't risk management is key. It's king! It's how you become a profitable trader, um, and so i know i know you had fantastic risk management really from the start, which is something a lot of brand new traders.

It's a it's a hard thing to grasp and i'd love to know. If, like, obviously, that's, probably a big part of why you're at why you are where you're at now, but i mean you've, never had a truly massive loss. Have you no uh biggest loss was recently and we can talk about that in a little while. But that's like the one stat that i'm pretty proud of, because uh i've kept my biggest win about three times as big as my biggest loss over these few years, and i'm just way more willing to.

You know let go of some potential profits than than let something slip by and turn into a bigger loss. Just out you know, holding and hoping that whole thing, but i've just i've always been okay with cutting losses. Where i just i know, other traders who, like physically can't bring themselves to cut losses, sometimes because they're so convicted, and i think an important thing is you. You really have to learn to let go when you're wrong and when the chart tells you that you're wrong.

So um, i never really thought about it along the way. Um, it's just kind of it. Just kind of ended up happening that way where you know, i'm just i'm fine with letting go of something and potentially missing out if it means staying safe. You know live to fight another day.

That sort of thing no absolutely and i we already have some questions up coming in chat, um and one of them, and i'm gon na kind of build this uh like a multi-question here, but someone is curious. Uh earlier you talked about the first green day strategy that you really first got started off with, but i'm also curious for these. You know for anyone listening the patterns that were working best for you, uh in you know, 2020 and obviously now right there they're not working, i mean they're, but some of the stuff. We were trading in 2020.

It doesn't even happen anymore, like you, don't even see those setups right. I know you know exactly what i'm thinking of too, but let's start off with the first green day. Um, because we can kind of get into this, will show kind of how the market does change over time and how you and i have adapted, because i i for one can say the first screen day pattern. It still happens, but not nearly as cleanly as it used to uh in the listed land, but so first a little bit about the first green day pattern that got you started and then let's chat about some patterns that we used to trade too.

So, just sort of define a first green day. Yeah i mean so you know earlier you mentioned that one of the first strategies you got started with right was i i i'm saying that right, like one of the first patterns that you kind of got consistent with or started, uh understanding is the first green day Right yeah, i always had uh. I always had a better time finding an entry when there was already data on the chart. You know, like some people specialize in breakouts, which is basically an idea in your head, that you know the current technicals show that the stock is going to do this this and this.

But my strength was looking at the charts that had already had that multi-day run and then looking for that support after the multi-day run comes to an end and uh. You know you have all that data to go off of now versus relying on just the conviction of you know the breakout happening, so i always found it easier. The first green day was always easier for me because i had so much data to go off of, and i could you know you can visibly see the support you can see where the risk reward makes the most sense um. It's it's less of an idea.

Trade and more of you know i i i kind of know what to expect based on what the multi-day run did where it's supported afterwards and what it's doing now. You know what i mean right. No, that's, i think that's one of the biggest benefits of trading. A first green day pattern is, you know the range that the stock has already had.

You have you know how it moves right. Everyone um, we always talk or maybe not. We always talk about something i've always been. A big fan of in trading is like know how a stock behaves if you've traded this stock multiple times before you kind of have an idea of how it should behave with certain patterns with.

Does it double top a lot? Does it fake break out a lot? Spfm, you - and i were just talking about before this call like it was such a choppy choppy move that i was. I had trouble playing it um and i wanted to trade it today, but unfortunately they dropped that offering um but, like you could see a stocks move for multiple days at a time - and you don't know this for a fact, but you can expect that it'll continue To move like that, maybe on a first green day, maybe on a breakout attempt - and so i think, that's a huge benefit of trading a first green day pattern is you've already gotten to see all that data you've gotten to see what kind of range it has You know if it's down in just a couple days, you know 70 80 percent off highs. You can expect a decent bounce to resistance levels right. You know where generally bags are trapped from if they're long right, um or you know, if you had a lot a lot, a lot of liquidation.

You know it's probably gon na have a tougher time bouncing because people who are buying that dip just kept getting dipped on that was a huge um. Oh man, i i want to say it was snpw. I had a really tough time bouncing right because it was just straight liquidation, straight liquidation, um and i already know people are probably going to ask this question, but you know how how one? How do you define a first screen day? What do you personally look for and two like? Are you you know you're, not really? Sometimes i guess you do. You can scan for a first green day, but more often than not, i'd have to imagine you're looking at a strong stock, keeping that on your watch list for your first screen day, but would like to hear your thoughts on that so a year ago, two years Ago a first screen day would be defined as a multi-day run.

You want to see the stock go. I mean i, i don't really like to give strict percentages of. You know the minimum that it needs to run up, but you basically just want to see a multi-day breakout and uh you're, looking for at least two to three red days with some consolidation and then after two to three red days. Usually you know some shorts are ready to cover some dip.

Buyers are ready to come back in and uh that i always found the tightest risk reward in the first green day, because you're you're looking for that breaking point where the stock is gon na break away from the support that it just formed and potentially retest the Breakout even or somewhere in between, but for some traders i know that trading within that range is not good enough for them like they. They want way more r r than that, but i think that if you're good enough at finding that breaking point you can you can find amazing risk reward within that uh within that range, from the from the bottom of the first green day to the top of The breakout it doesn't have to re-break out you know you can find six seven eight to one trades on a first screen day um and it just always came easier to me like i said, because you have so much data to work with right. No, i couldn't agree more, and obviously you know that i i'd like to see if you feel this way too, i haven't traded a really great first green day. In months i haven't, i haven't seen one that isn't really choppy a lot of fake outs.

I don't know: do you wan na, have you had any first really solid, first green day trades lately yeah, i had one decent first green day this week, um i was looking at my eyes - have been glued to the weed stacks because, obviously of all the legislation Going on - and i can i can pull the chart for you if you want sure yeah all right. What do you want to type in here? So what do you? What do you want to do? First, you want to talk about flgc, or do you want to talk about till ray? Let's talk about, let's start off with till right here, i'm going to switch that over to this all right. So, what's yeah you can go on, i would just do like a 20 day, 15 minute yeah, so yeah, obviously after it topped out near nine um, my eyes were glued to it for all the reasons that i stated, i'm just looking for it to bottom and See where that key support is gon na form - and i knew we have so much potential here because of all the legislation that might be coming up with, like the federal legalization bill and whatnot. So i had a couple early stabs on it this week, monday and tuesday and uh.

It just wasn't ready, but i kept the losses, small and then wednesday. Would that have been the fifth here, so, okay, so tuesday um tilray was basing around like 690s and uh. Then it got like a random huge candle. You see there where uh, just millions of volume come in and it turns out that chuck schumer said that uh.

You know it's looking good for the legalization bill to move forward to the senate vote and whatnot. So i saw the spike pretty early. I bought 10 000 shares at 707, which is like i i would have wanted it closer to seven, but i didn't really want to be too picky so um. I was psyched because within 10 seconds i was up like 3 500 or something like that and uh.

I was like holy crap like this. This could actually be a first green day in the afternoon. You know, but then in typical tillery fashion. It sold right back to lowe's and i was just like what does this mean like hot, like how is it selling off that hard on the news? You know blah blah blah, but uh.

I knew they had earnings the next day and if it were at highs, i wouldn't have necessarily trusted earnings, because it would have more than likely turned into a like big sell-off event. But since it had they had four or five red days in a row. At that point, and so i was like okay well, the odds are clearly in the favor of the longs at this point of earnings are tomorrow and so um. I was really struggling on what i should do at the end of the day i was like.

Do i really want to swing like a 71 000 position and then uh? I sat there until 8 pm thinking like what do i do? What do i do? What should i do and uh i almost sold half at 7 59, but decided to just keep it and then the next morning there was just a wave of press releases. They got like a whole foods deal which whole foods was obviously owned by amazon um. They were supposed to have earnings at 8, 30 eastern. It came out at like 7 45 or something and so um all this stuff.

It had so much going for it. It held seven pre-market um. Everything was basically going in my favor, and so i was feeling pretty good and then uh by the time. Those like secondary brokers, like robin hood and whatever open up at 8, am there was just like a giant buying candle and i was like okay well, pretty much got ta.

Just stick to my guns. On this one i have. I was risking the day prior lows, which was like 691 or something so risking like sixteen hundred dollars and uh. By the time it opened, it was at, like 790s, had a quick drop to 750 supported there and then, when it rebroke the highs and got to eight.

I was like this is almost three times my biggest trade ever so probably take off. Like 85 percent of my shares, which is exactly what i did, i sold 8 500 at like 802, 803 and then just held 1500. I was like well if this holds seven again or like 750 again, then you know i could. I could look for it to.

Maybe move to 850 and uh didn't end up happening, actually got distracted. The next morning, uh didn't set a stop, which was supposed to be at 691, ended up selling at like 660's for like a 800 loss, but i i mean i was psyched at that point. I'd still cleared like 73 or 7 400, so that's beautiful, that's beautiful, so yeah that that is like a for me. That's like a picture-perfect first green day.

I would have liked for it to hold higher on that spike the day before that senate spike. But you know it held seven, which was all that mattered and dominic was there to like reassure me of that he's, like you know, all that matters is that i held seven, so just be patient, yadda yadda and it worked out and um that was this month. That's been my only like halfway decent trade, and it was my best trade ever so that was the month maker. You know what's funny about that is so yeah you're gambling on earnings quote unquote, but in the same breath like you said it was sold off for what three or four days whatever.

However long it was, it's almost like unless they got crushed on earnings right. It's a catalyst, i see a lot of earnings, losers, gap up, um and, like you mentioned right, like most of the time a big earnings winner comes out and you have a big gap up. It still turns into a sell the news, event um and so like. I i actually i like that idea right where you're going for that first green day, you're going knowing they have a catalyst and unless they really blow it um more or less, it is going to if nothing else, um just stabilize.

But you know if it's good earrings, like you said they had a bunch of other pr's coming out too um. So you you had the first green day with the catalyst i mean it's a fantastic trade. Now i know before that and it's still in the weed sector am i right uh we got some flgc. Do you want to pull up that chart uh sure yeah i mean i.

This is not how i would recommend anyone to trade, but i just this was when tilray had gone from like five to nine, and i was like okay well, i've seen this before you know i studied studied the 2018 pop move or postdocs move. I studied the. I got i got to trade, the 2021 pot stocks move, so i know that sympathies typically work well in this sector, and so i was like what is what's the cheapest sympathy i can find with the lowest float, because all these big weed names have such huge Floats now, and so i found i, i remembered flgc, because that was like a pretty good runner from back in the day, and so i don't remember where it was on the chart at this point, but um i bought in the low twos just hoping that tilray Was gon na hold up and consolidate and uh it that just that? Just never really happened? I mean every time till ray would make a move. Flgc would move like one-tenth as much relative to the price and by the time that um tilray was looking to sell off again i had like 25 000 flgc from like 198 or something and uh it was basically just one candle broke.

My risk um took like a 3 000 loss on that that was actually my biggest loss ever so, not my not my brightest moment, but that was just me, hoping that the sympathies were going to work and not really waiting for them to prove themselves, and so I paid the price, you know right now, yeah and that's that's one thing. That's like the probably the hardest part of sympathies right is one especially when it's in a sector. That's that's, run many times before run a couple times before. Even you know that there are certain stocks that follow along the sector.

Leaders and the hardest part about sympathies is like not all of them run. Right i mean i uh, i remember during the ev run there were. It was one of the hardest things for me. I love, i love sympathy trades.

I do um, but one of the hardest things was like. You would get these random perks that showed interest and then just complete sell-off like nothing like there's just didn't, respect, support and that's probably the hardest part is like when it comes to trading sympathies, in my opinion, is f by the time you found ones that are Strong they almost most of the time they don't provide a great entry right because they're a sympathy they're, not a leader they're, not a lot of them, aren't going to run as far as the leader does um, and so by the time they start consolidating and really Setting up again, i i find they're very tough to trade and it's like you almost have to be a little early on them um. But you know, like you said you had your stop and you accept the loss. You know, that's the that's the most important part um.

What was i mean? Did you did you? Were you accepting that loss before you got into it or was this something? Where did it turn into a bigger loss than it meant to be? Oh yeah, it turned into a way bigger loss than i meant to be, because i just had that stupid mentality of you know. I have to be right here, and you know this has happened twice before, so it has to happen again where, whereas, if i just was patient and gave it a little bit more time, let tillery really set up if it was going to for, like a multi-day Breakout, it would have been a much better option, but i was just like just fomo to the max like i don't want to miss it this time. I've been struggling these past couple of months, because so many so many factors are different in the market. So like i need to get in now and like my original risk was gon na be like a thousand dollars and then it just kept dipping.

I kept adding ended up with, like 20, like i said, like 25 000 shares, and by the time i take by the time uh cutting was like necessary. I was just like holy crap like i never accounted for a loss, this big on on something. That's not even a pattern, it was just you know, hoping the sympathy was going to work, so yeah original risk was going to be like a thousand ended up being like three like i said now, this was something that we talked about with my guest last week. My friend ron, and he something similar happened to him where he took a way bigger loss than you know he anticipated, and what do you do right like? This is now your biggest loss of all time.

This was just a couple a week or two ago, um like what do you do now right like how? How do you, i guess, actually, your biggest win came after your biggest loss. Am i correct, or was it yeah, but you know so now, though, right like moving forward, do you have any new rules set in place? Do you have any? What do you do to adapt to that to adjust to making sure that kind of loss? I should say: unplanned loss doesn't happen again, my most like relevant trades, whether it's good or bad, long or short. They always get printed out and put up on a wall or written down somewhere and uh. You know you just have to you: have to do something with with your mistakes to make sure they don't happen again, like you know, like printing it out or writing about it and uh, just making sure it doesn't happen again, but um there's there's nothing out there.

Convincing me that sympathy plays a good idea right now, no matter what the sector is, you know we just haven't seen anything to to prove otherwise, so i'm just uh, i i'm not too worried about it. I was up a lot that day, so that was, it was good. I actually ended up green that day, so i was thankful for that um. I'm sure i would have took it a bit more personally if i ended up read that day.

So maybe i didn't learn my lesson all the way but, like i said, i'm not in any rush to to get to slap happy with sympathy plays again because it's just you know the nothing has has proven itself this year to to be a quality sympathy play Except you know, except for the oil stocks that we saw, that was about it, but i managed to screw those up too. So, oh you and me both you and me both well. It's funny, though, like i think that's one of the problems too, because sympathies right come from a hot sector. Oil and gas has been the really only truly hot sector.

I feel like we've seen in months we've had you know: we've had some random pops, but for no like in different sectors, but for no real reason right, no global catalyst and obviously oil and gas did um. That's that's one thing i miss because you know and we'll get back a little bit here - we're gon na backtrack into 2020 and kind of adapting in the market and whatnot. But during 2020 and 2021 i mean it was every if when one sector died, another started, it was crazy. I mean there was just there was no stopping it, and but you know to that then they'd have sim.

Since there was sector momentum, you would have sympathies coming off that and what was wild is those hot sectors created like sympathy sectors right i mean when ev started running then battery plays started, running and then solar started running i mean it was. It was just. It was weird, it was something i don't know when the next time we'll see is, but you know i want to backtrack a little because i said we'd talk about this a little bit earlier. Um we've both adapted uh.

Quite a lot grown a lot over the past. You know two years as traders. What are wha, i mean: do you ever consciously think about how you are going to adapt to a market? I think it was probably a little different. We were forced to adapt because, even though the patterns we weren't trading, i mean we would we were trading basically like what what were we trading.

We were uh like bot. We were trading stocks. That low was bouncing them to v-wap half the time right i mean what was, but that pattern doesn't happen anymore. The only reason that ever happened is because, like everything would run um so now these days it was just no go ahead and finish.

I'm sorry. No! No, no you're good um, like are you conscious of adapting these days like and how so have you adapted over the past two years? Well, part of it was just kind of doing some research doing some thinking. Why did they run so crazy back then? And i think it's just because one of the first places that inflation is priced in is the stock market, and so, after all of the quantitative easing that we saw with trillions and trillions of dollars being printed, you know that that that inflated stocks, just as much As it did all other assets - and it just happened to be that the stock market was one of the first places to experience that inflation so um - i i feel, like you know, from what i've read and just my experience that that was the main reason. So many stocks were flying and all these sectors were going crazy was because stocks were just inflating and uh as far as adapting now um, i'm really just taking it one day at a time because i've i've thought this was.

I thought the market was topped out. Four or five times now and the federal reserve federal reserve always finds a way to prove everyone wrong and so right now i i think it's just about being patient and waiting for something to prove itself um as far as being strictly long right now, there's not Really much to adapt to i'm just i'm a hardcore scalper right now, aside from the tilray trade which, still in terms of percentage, wasn't even a crazy percentage, i just got lucky and i had a lot of size which i'm fortunate for, but you know it wasn't. Some crazy 100 move and so uh, i'm just trying to focus on those solid 15 to 20 moves that i can size in confidently on and um just limiting trading overall, because uh you know over trading is that over trading is just a terrible habit right now. I i know some people who over trade - and it's just you know it's not going well for them well, yeah we used to.

I mean i remember like even back when i was trading really small size, but i was trading with a cash account. You used to be not only, it wasn't only acceptable to over trade, but like it worked to overtrade, because you would, you would take a loss and within five minutes you would find five other trades and i'd get into all of them, and four of them would Be winners, and these days like i mean how much have you dialed back your trading um, and this is probably good for a lot of people to hear right, because i think it's very it's probably one of the easiest things to do as a trader is to See a setup you like that, looks good and take it um. How do i guess like how how one, how much have you dialed back to trading in two? How do you i'd love to hear how you stopped yourself from over trading? Well, i mean i didn't really stop myself. The market just kind of eventually beat me down enough to where i had no other choice, but, like i got, i just got like a really bad impression in 2020 and 2021 that you know like this is always how the market's going to be here.

Even if it's like half this volatile or a quarter of this volatile i'll find a way to make money, and so i got comfortable trading midday because you could scout midday all day, long and and and do well, and so that was the first habit. I had to break was from 11 to 2. I try to just not even look at charts or you know, especially not trade, and sometimes i do slip up, but i keep the losses small, but i think that's that's. The biggest thing is if, if you're a long, biased trader, you really need to find what you find what works in the morning and then get out of there until the afternoon, because that's one of the first things we learn is that midday trading can be dangerous.

So you know, that's that's one thing you really have to focus on is just that's where that's where we're trading the majority of it will take place, is midday so have you ever considered going short ever learning to short more in depth, because i know you said You know you and i both are primarily long. Biased traders like has there ever been a temptation to go short. I'd say like one out of 20. Trades is probably short, but i i'm not really i'm not so convicted on it that i'm willing to like open a cobra account, or something like that.

So it has to be something easy to borrow on e-trade something overly obvious um, preferably some big cap. That's going parabolic into resistance, or something like that, and it's always small size but um it for the most part it just shorts. Just don't make a ton of sense to me. So i see certain people on twitter that i've been following for a while and they're.

Like 100 short bias and they completely crush it, and i want to reach out and ask them, you know like how do you, how do you get started here in yada yada but uh? I don't know i've been sort of lazy about it and i just don't really think that my brain is wired to look at charts from a short perspective. I've just always been more long, biased, no 100 um question. You know that i that i i will start wrapping this up here. You know we're getting to that 45 minute mark um.

So a couple things i do want to ask, but one if you had to do this all over again right, i mean you essentially took out the last three years: you're starting in this market. After hearing how crazy uh, you know 2020 and 2021 was we're talking about it all the time right now, how would you do it? How would you go about it like? What would what do you think, knowing what you know now right again, assuming you have all this knowledge still, what would what would you do? How would you do it if i had to if i'm starting over in 2020? No, no, no, like you're, you're you're! I guess you're starting from scratch today. Right like today is your first day trading um, and you saw all this all this craziness. What what would you um? I guess, how would you do it you know, would you be, would you still want to be over pdt in this market right? Would you, i guess, essentially almost like just some uh to newer traders right now who are just getting started that are hearing all this and we're talking about this market craziness, but they didn't really get to experience it.

What do you think, like the best steps to take, are that you would do yourself if you were starting today um, because we did learn a lot of unfortunately good and bad lessons from a hot market. I mean you were just talking about. You know i i for one thought: the market was always going to be this volatile from now on or that volatile. But it's not and we've adapted and we've changed.

Maybe some setups you would focus on you know, would you be over pdt? Would you be? What would you focus on maybe journaling? You know things that worked um that have helped you get to where you are today, if that makes any sense, so i think that you should always want to be over pdt, because when you're under pdt you're forced to not over trade, so you know you can't Learn to not over trade, because you're forced to not over trade, but when you're above pdt, you actually have to develop that discipline to not over trade so and when things do get hot, you obviously have the ability to trade in and out as much as you Want so, i definitely think if you can get over pdt do that learn what it feels like learn, learn that you have to be disciplined learn how to not over trade, even when you have the ability to, because that's how you're going to develop those good habits. Can i interrupt you real, quick right there? I just want to add to that real quick too. So you know for that's a great point and that's something that, like i think about a lot, is you know the pdt rule really sucks, because it's gon na force you to miss a plus, plays, if you're out of day trades. What i did when i was under pd2 was, i actually used a cash account and you can look more into that.

I'm not going to get too far into it, but if you don't have the ability to get over pdt a cash account is going to teach you one cash management, but it's also going to allow you to freely trade smaller size. But you know the same same concept if you can't get over it keep going. I just wanted to put that out there, because i know they're going to be some people that are like man. I really want to be over pdt, but i can't be another option.

If you don't want to do a cash account, um is a little bit off topic, but you can obviously open up multiple margin accounts on a pdt um and then, if you have parents that don't have a td or e-trade account, yet you can. You can put one in their name and you can get up to nine or maybe maybe even 12 day trades per week while being under pdt or you can do it. You said with having the cash account, but then obviously you have to wait for the cash to settle and whatnot. So there's there's there's ways around pdt, but as far as setups that work today, i don't know how much advice i have on that, because some some of the trades i take with like looking for you, know, uh intraday trend breaks and trying to find that tight Risk reward at that breaking point from you know the stock finding support and then moving back up to retest um.

It sounds like a first screen day, but sometimes it's not sometimes it's in the middle of a red day, uh a lot of a lot of that stuff can't really be taught. It can only be learned and discovered so yeah get as much screen time as you possibly can, and no one has the right to complain about their trading until they put in a full year of screen time, showing up every single day staring at the charts all Day long um, but i i don't know how much advice i have right now as far as what setups to take, i just think that, no matter what the market conditions are like, you should be here studying learning, because you know then, when this happens again in The future you'll be you'll, be able to recognize it more easily, but i think the name of the game right now is um, not necessarily scout, but pay yourself take small moves. Um, look for three or four to one risk reward you don't have to hit home runs just stay alive and uh wait for something to prove itself. We haven't had any crazy day, one runners in a couple of months.

We might not have them ever again, but you know that's that's what we do. We show up and we wait for the markets to prove themselves and then we size in where we see appropriate and we just do our best so right now my best advice is just stay. Patient, no couldn't agree more with that and hey guys. While we wrap this up here, if you have any questions for jordan drop it in the chat, so i might get a couple questions for jordan to answer.

If you have any um and when you're out there be sure to hit the like button um, but i i want to like really like kind of restate or like double down on what you said like, let's reiterate thank you. I want college to drop out to another. At least one of us is good with words um. No, it's uh patience is the name of the game, but i think a lot of people who are newer almost translate that to well.

I don't need to be in front of the screen today. Yeah, you do yeah, you do and if, if you can't be there during the work day, if you work - and i know a lot of people, do that's what after hours you're for that's and i'm not saying go watch after hours moves, i'm saying go back and Look through the charts, i mean one of the best things i think you can do if you're trying to learn right is literally just you said you put your you put up your best and you print out your best and worst trades, and you hang them up. Start hanging up charts of things like what are the common patterns? You know separate the trades break them down. Is this a breakout trade? Is this a bounce trade? It's the multi-day breakout uh? Is this an all-time high, breakout whatever it is? How are these similar patterns acting intraday and that's what you're gon na then you're gon na start, developing okay, you're gon na start, seeing very similar repeated patterns right like um, for example.

I know intraday right, one of our favorite one of mine. I know jordan u2. We like to trade, those intraday trend, breaks, it's not that they don't break trend anymore. It's that these days, the follow through through that trend break is a lot less existent than it used to be, and that's where you're gon na see these cyclical changes right.

First, green days still happen, but like a tilray for example right, you didn't really have the opportunity to get in right out of the gate. You swung it um, and that was how that first screen day worked. They just change uh in terms of their effectiveness. So i think that's fantastic um yeah, i don't know anything else you want to enter.

Actually i have a question. I'm gon na start asking this to every guest i have on now, because it's um something it's from one of my favorite podcasts uh. How i built this with guy roz, have you ever listened that jordan? That's another good podcast! It's not like trading related, it's just business related, but one thing he always asks. Every guest at the end of the episode is how much of where you are today.

Um is based on skill and how much is based on luck and think a little outside the box. Like luck, meaning you know, i know you, you went to you knew dom through school, and that was a big part of how you got in here. But if you had to really break it down, how much of it is skill and how much of it is luck, it's a toughy, isn't it i mean i could say as much as 99 was luck because if i didn't know dom or have the ability to Meet jack, i highly doubt that that i'd be here today because, like i'm, not gon na say that they held my hand but being able to have those real life examples of the process working and they're. You know they're right in front of you in an office and they're, letting you watch them for free like something that certain people would pay thousands of dollars for like that was a unbelievable edge, and i like can't, i can't even describe how thankful i am for That because yeah i i mean so i i don't want to say 99 luck, because you know after they prove to me that it can be done.

I was the one that put in all the hours, i'm the one who hasn't taken a vacation in two and a half years, and you know i'm the one that applied what i learned from them and put it into new listed patterns. You know took the otc principles adapted them to listed patterns, even even before, like someone like dom kind of dived into listed, i was already kind of trying to apply those principles to to listed socks, and so you know that's that's a really tough question because, like I said without them i absolutely would not be here, but you know i i've put in a lot of work, so i know let's say: 60 percent luck. 40. Let's say 70 percent luck! 30 skill! No, i think that, and that's just the thing is i mean any anyone right the way i always see it is anyone who can be fortunate enough to get into this at all.

There's a luck factor right like you, whether you've saved money up or just there's the luck of just finding out that this is a thing right i mean some people will never know. I'd argue probably more do now than than before, but a lot of this stuff.