So when i blew up my account after that into the summer, it was i was going into my senior year and i really had to take time for myself to recoup and really just get a grasp of like my head. You know because everything was spinning out of control, so you made and lost 80k. Is that correct? Oh just about, i think i was down to like 14 000. man, then december 2019 uh.

I was at tcu in down fort worth. I drove over to the cobra brokerage office and gave them like the remainder of my account like check form like you can mail, it open me an account, then i start shorting again little. No luck! Massive volatility comes back next thing. I know there's so many people that just don't know the rules of trading and they're just getting dumped on every day and it was right back to business with the gap and crabs you're.

Listening to the steady trade podcast, the steady trade podcast. Welcome back to the steady trade podcast everyone - i am tim bowen back with my co-host steven johnson and we've got jack dan jack schwartz here today got a lot to talk about, jack's, been really crushing it lately and then he's got an interesting kind of approach to Trading a little bit more of a of a quant type idea, so a little bit different than than we've talked about most of uh. You know most of the stuff we talk about. A lot of the time is, you know, steven's, just blindly shorting any stock.

That's up more than 1.5 on the day and then i'm just looking to short or i'm just looking to buy when he covers his short and then and then and then sell higher. So you know that's been about 200 episodes of the steady trade podcast. So jack's got a little bit more of a sophisticated approach and and we're going to go over that today, so uh so welcome jack. Welcome stephen uh.

Let's get right into it! So let's do it uh, just also just just welcome jack. I think you've started out in 2016 if i'm right, yep back in february. I think i'm about a year behind you and stuff like that. So i'm just curious to know like how was your journey.

How are things progressing? How did you start out, and i also if i've done my research properly, did you blow up an 80 thousand dollar account somewhere along? Oh yeah? Oh yeah, uh, 2019 yeah. I just love to hear the story here. The struggle because, like i, blew up a bunch of accounts too and uh-huh just to get the truth, do you know what i mean? Yeah totally trading sucks sometimes and it's hard, but it's very rewarding in the end dude i know like sometimes trading is just. I can't even stand it.

It is like the worst thing in the world. It's a lot of fun has some great benefits, but it can really just twist your mind up and that's that's really actually, where i went wrong with my blowing up but kind of back to the beginning. It started in 2016. In february i had a 2 000 account and i was always very well risk managed uh.

I would make sure to only lose like 20 bucks a day or like 30 bucks on a trade. Something like that, and i can really attribute that to the longevity and like how i was able to stay in the game and keep right. I mean i guess, coming back for more punishment, it turned out, but i mean staying in the game. That's first and foremost, the number one thing you need to do when you're starting out um, i mean i pretty much bled that account down into 2017 january, i nailed my first big trade, which was dffn diffen at 4.2, held it overnight, and then i sold it Into like 13, i made like 800 bucks, it was like a 220 gain.

I still the picture somewhere and but like having something like that. That's kind of what taught me the potential saying: okay, i wasted nearly a year to finally hit a really good trade, which almost put me back in the game. But if, like that, that's that's the cool thing just right off the bat is, if you could, you know that's the point i do want to make and i'm the king of interruptions by the way, but but i want to focus on that point because to all Those out there listening, i mean the reason jack could do. That is because he took 20 losses for a year.

I mean, if you take, you know 500 losses you're done in two weeks and then here he says: one trade almost puts him in the black, but that only works. If you got the 20 losses, the 15, the 30 loss so go ahead. Oh yeah but uh seeing that potential and then i developed like a desire to just kind of replicate something like that cause i'm like okay, so it is possible to really make an insane amount of money because it was a 350 dollar position, 300 position and made Nearly 750 bucks on it but uh then i bled that account down and then i i wrote that account off. I'm like all right.

That's blown up. I got ta re-up get back after and keep working because i always believe that if there's a will there's a way i mean there's other people crushing it. Why can't i do it? I just got ta adapt and figure out where my biggest flaws are, and i will be honest. My whole background does get a little foggy just because i've bled so many times and i've just suppressed those memories, but uh, let's see enter college.

I was a senior in high school when i started training real quick. What got you started like like? What was you know? I'm gon na okay, i'm gon na open up. You know again because oh yeah, this is five. You know four or five years ago.

It's you know i like to think it's still. Not quite me, you know it's nothing like today. I mean i mean you stop any 18 year old on the street you're like hey, you got a robin hood account he's like yeah, you know, so i wake up. Every day for the market at nine o'clock eastern yeah, so i was actually like in the bathroom scrolling on instagram and i come across tim sykes's, uh post and i'm like.

Oh that's, sick. You just posted, like a supernova of. I think it was ford. F-O-R-D ticker yep and i'm like that's insane volatility, i'm like why don't more people do that and, like i said, if there's a will, there's a way, it's clearly possible for somebody to buy into those like parabolics and make money and then couple that with senioritis.

I didn't care about school, didn't want anything to do with it. I was on the lacrosse team and lacrosse is a spring sport. I stopped going to practices because i'm like okay lacrosse is a dead end, even if you make to the pros there's no money in that. So that's why i started trading.

I'm like i have free time. Let's use that free time for something trying to make something work. So that's how i uh kind of really just got started, and then so, where are we college? Yeah yep college is just grind season all the time and then we'll kind of fast forward, because that was more the same. You know just getting into a hot market where there's massive momentum in a sector and you make insane amounts of money like a thousand bucks here, 1500 there and like that's, really big for the account.

But then what happens after the market shifts? And it goes quiet, you start to bleed out again because you don't have like a proper risk management adjustment process, because there's one market where you can risk like two uh two are on a trade and then another you have to only risk one r yeah. So yeah and then sometimes i mean, like you know you look at even we're kind of in that chop, fest right now, but you look back to them. You look back to a month ago and i mean, like everything, came back too. It's like it's like i mean, especially as a newbie.

Even if you make bad decisions, you can make money during the times like that, oh yeah, this last week i mean nothing comes back and it's it's just yeah, and so you have to stick to those stops. Can i just jump in quickly with a totally random question that might ruin the floor and the interview, but just doing my job as a great co-host um. Something that took years for me to figure out is to only put size on the best opportunities and to just sit quietly for the rest of the time. I just want to get your opinion on that like is it a case of just waiting for an a plus and then size and big, because you see jackalope? Does that oh yeah? I see some other guys that do that.

Do you do that is that some hidden secrets uh so when i was really kept getting into the flow of like building my account? You know you're kind of in the boat with all these other robin hooders, where everybody's just pushing on every single opportunity, and it was working out both long and short said, but ever since uh, i guess after the game, stop crashed from 400 back in, like january February 2021 um, that's kind of when i began only waiting for just the perfect opportunities defined by my criteria and when those come around i will just i'll be able to dump size. Because i know it's so well and that's all i care about because you hit one of those opportunities and you really don't. I don't feel a need to trade anywhere else with big size. So the rest is possum time just passing time.

Waiting yeah training a bit yeah grinding a bit there, but the money comes from the odd trade, the big one yeah yeah kind of like in uh. You know when it rains it pours right right. That's usually how i see yeah. So you know market flips.

All your setups are there i'll, be there pushing every day if it's quiet, i will trade, maybe like a tenth of the size i like to trade and then i'll go work on my car or something yep. Yeah. Think that's something! You know that that stephen and i you know in the podcast and over and over again, you know we pushed that idea of you know and again you you've mentioned several things that that you know it's like staying in the game, because you know, and i'm assuming You'll agree, but it's like you know, you got to find that one or two setups that are your core setups, and i mean you can't do that in a week. You can't do that in a month and again, if you're, if you're too aggressive and you're too oversized back to, like you said number one thing is staying in the game: you'll never know what your best setups are.

If you're done in a month, i mean you just can't figure it out, i don't care how much data you track. I don't care how much time you sit in the computer. You can't do it so that that's, i think it is, is so important and people you know they just want to press too hard. They want to make too much too fast and so on and so forth.

So yeah - and i mean i get it like it's right - it's a very attractive idea. You know you just pick up trade. You make a ton of money, then it's like oh sayonara, real world, but it just can't work like that. If it worked like that, everybody would be retired right, so so how long did it take you to kind of find that you know the your your a plus setups your core setups, etc uh.

So you know i was always like studying just the short selling side. Even from the beginning, because that's usually like all the content, you see everywhere, and it wasn't even until like rolling wolf, where i actually discovered how to build a long account, and that was once i was already a couple years into trading. But i did that. I built my log account and then i flipped to a trade, zero broker account and then from there it was kind of just history.

It was march 2019. good, and i mean i just pushed everything. I really didn't have incredible risk management, but i was just pushing every single gap, because that was one of those cycles where every gap just flops - and it was incredible. So i built that from like five thousand six thousand dollar account into about eighty thousand.

What what year was this? Because i think i did the same thing: 2019. beautiful year - very, very easy strategy, short whatever literally eddie gab. It was just awesome yeah. That was a good idea.

If i got crops yet yeah and uh, then i got on to one like. I think it was like oblan or something it was like a gap into the dollar range. It became super overcrowded, then just written with algos, and i was just trying to like slam. The gap and crap it didn't work for a few times, but instead of just walking away, i just kept pushing i'm like.

Oh it'll fall, it'll fall and it wound up going to like the three dollars over the next couple days. But that's really where i took the big loss in my account and then from there my risk management just got sloppier and sloppier, as i went down that whole downward spiral with it. This this sounds more or less, where i am right now so downward spiral. What no i mean, i'm doing all right.

I've kept a lot of what i've made, but your story is the same as mine, just you're in the future you're like the future version. So i did the gap and craps a couple of them stopped working, oh yeah, and then it spiraled. So what happened? Next? Because it's like me talking to the future me so when i blew up my account after that into the summer it was. I was going into my senior year and i really just kind of said i just can't trade right now.

I was so sloppy with everything, so i really had to take time for myself to recoup and really just get a grasp of like my head. You know because everything was spinning out of control, i'm like okay, i'm going to graduate in a year and i just lost all the money i worked for. This is not a great situation, so you made and lost 80k. Is that correct, oh just about? I think i was down to like 14 000.

but, like i said i guess that's sort of that's so tough. It was terrible, it's so tough, terrible man and uh man. Then december 2019 uh. I was at tcu in down fort worth.

I drove over to the cobra brokerage office and gave them like the remainder of my account like check form like you can mail, it open me an account, then i start shorting again little. No luck! Massive volatility comes back next thing. I know there's so many people that just don't know the rules of trading and they're just getting dumped on every day, and it was right back to business with the gapping craps, where i built my account up to finally breaking the 100 000 area. Beautiful and then then i started diversifying with all the other strategies that i knew and i'm kind of just rotating between patterns.

Now, as cycles change, can you give some of those patterns? I mean i'm gon na guess that you've thrown the first red d in there because that's a standard one, especially on the multi-days. But can you give like some of the patterns just generally um? Okay, some of the patterns? You obviously have like the day one gap and fades um, but oftentimes those get so overcrowded. Now that it just doesn't work anymore. Maybe it doesn't work i'll, maybe take a morning panic on it.

Take like a few thousand, then yeah move on yeah. The best fades are going to be the ones that are just really chilling and then the volumes kind of uh down like for those. It's not really a pattern. For me, it's more of a just like the data that i have on it yeah i i could honestly trade it without even looking at the chart, just based on like the time of day and the volume push i'm like.

Well, that's it. You know again. I know i'm the i'm the old bastard here, but you know it's like i think back to you know. I tell this story all the time.

You know 2007. 2008, 2009, that first four or five years of my career, it was like. I could you could almost do like you said you could almost trade without a chart, because if you gave me a ticker and just showed me, the volume i'd short it and they'd all they'd all die at the end of the day, and they would all gap Down because if that thing wasn't building volume, it was over man and again it just ever. I mean again.

If there wasn't, you know, i always talk about that kind. You know you got that, like that u-shaped volume and if you're heading in the afternoon, i could you know i didn't at the time, but thinking back i could have traded with a volume chart and a ticker, because i already knew it was the big gainer of The day, okay, and if you just showed me the volume unless it was hitting like big volume candles, it was over, it would close on the low and it would gap down the next day every single time. Every time oh yeah tim didn't you uh. That was you with the midday v-wap hold, i think you're the one that exposed me that yeah nice.

That was also my like log strategy right, the heart of it. It was one i could always look for and like kind of figure out find a wrist unit. Beautiful awesome, you know it's it's a simple pattern, but that's you know, that's again what we're trying to do here, we're geared towards you know newer traders and you know, and that's to the listener out there i mean it's like you start with that. You start with these simple things, because you know again, i think so many people over complicate things.

You know you start with this simple as possible and then, like we've said or i've said three times stay in the game. Then you start to diversify. Meanwhile, and listen i'm as guilty as anybody back in 2007., you try everything man, it's like it's like you're. You know you you're, you know again.

I was shortened junk late day, faders. That would you know basically the opposite of the view apple. The view app fail. You know and there'd be there wouldn't be one.

So then i'm you know i'm short and freaking large caps and you know and doing all the freaking all this trade. You know my biggest my biggest loss career date was trading fat, fas or faz. I can't remember which one but the 3x etfs, because i'm like well, there's nothing to short. So then, and then i take the biggest loss of my career on a 3x etf that i don't even know what the it does.

I'm just like. I just wanted action. You know but but jack, i'm just curious like because this has happened to a lot of traders right. You found a patent.

You made a lot of money, it stopped working. What did you do great question great question? Okay, so yeah actually, like i said, with the gap and craps they start getting so overcrowded, like there'd, be 20 30 million shares a day and those were like that was like the low end of the yeah, like you see, 50 80, 100 million plus, and it's Like what the hell but uh i mean when you see that it's like all these algos they're, just looking to pretty much front run you yeah, i don't know it's terrible, so i mean you just stop doing it and then those would also be the stocks that Would do the moves like there's like sckt, where just spiked uh from four to thirty in the same day yeah? So then i started diving into these aspects of well. Why don't? I just wait for everybody to get ripped apart because you don't lose money by sitting on the sidelines. You've well said: yep can't lose money doing that.

So so, then, i would start cleaning up after everybody gets blown out, and that would be one example or even what was the one earlier this week, that traded like 100 200 million, i don't know ticker, i didn't record it, but i made like maybe like a Thousand bucks on it yesterday, like it, was a small trade. It was probably like 10 cent gain or 15 cent game, but uh so yeah. You just pick up the pieces from everybody else after it right yeah right, which is that's, i mean steven. You know.

That's! That's what you're trying to do right now right, i mean you're they're waiting. You know you're you're, trying to be patient you're waiting for that. You know looking for everybody to talk about blowing up, then you want to enter. I mean i mean sometimes, but i'm almost looking, i mean the market's just not what it was maybe a few months ago, but i'm thinking like if, if people, if shorts, are getting drawn down 40 to 50 percent, why am i waiting we're not gon na? Be long taking 40 to 50 percent, so i'm kind of looking the other way, honest yeah, and actually that's where, like my all, my long games come from now because i know when, like shorts, are really screwed, so just like smack the buy button yeah, you know, I think there's value in that again.

You know back to my bio, it's like it's like i i recognize i mean you know, and obviously this podcast isn't about me, but i've told that story a million times. It's like you know: 2014 2015. I'm just like this is not working anymore. I'm like ev.

I get stopped every time. I'm like this didn't used to happen and then that's where i started. You know tracking data. You know keeping an eye on these things and then then i flipped the switch in 2016 because i'm like man, i'm i'm done making five percent when i can make 50 60 100.

You know on these moves and again not guaranteed, but it's like it changed. It changed, oh yeah, so certainly did, but i mean just one thing i think i'd like shortening at 9 31 on a first green day. It's just not a thing anymore, like it's, just not a thing anymore. Unless the stock's, like 4 million free 500 000 in the first minute, then it's a thing, then you don't want to look at the chart but yeah like lmdx today.

I probably shorted that, like 9 32, maybe added a little bit to my position, but now i will add in that you know edsa and that i mean you know again. You know covid prs. It's like i mean listen to those out there. If you get.

If you hear this podcast soon, you know like like we're recording in october 2020, and you want a short stuff beg for a penny stock with a coveted pr, because i mean you know edsa yesterday destroyed lndx today destroyed. I mean i mean that's like your. I mean if you can find one that look for it, so oh yeah, but uh as far as like leading gappers go it's not even worth like trying to short. You always got to wait for somebody to get pushed out.

Otherwise, just don't even worry about it. Yeah, i know, and it's a tough lesson to learn right. It's a tough lesson to learn. You need you need to take some losses and then uh and eventually you learn - i mean, but the the one of the main takeaways i found and probably that you've found is don't get married.

Do a setup just accept that it doesn't work anymore, yeah, oh yeah. I mean so what were the setups that you kind of evolved into what was the first setup that you'd, like kind of learned, that that got you away from the garden craft or that other than the gut crap later uh yeah? So one of them was like overextended gap downs, but like it's not really uh, i don't know if it's not like an official over extended gap downs, but it's just like a massive massive exhaustion like people don't even want to trade, the ticker anymore, because they're so Sick by it and uh yeah, but like it'll gap down like 30 percent, but i mean you can really short into and it's gon na fall like another three four dollars and then you pick up the pieces there. Another one is like the super massive blowout low float moves. Those ones are some of the best for me, both on the long side and short side, because i i don't know why i see it the way i do.

I tell people about it real time, they're like you're, an idiot, you're, crazy and then like i'll, make money long and then i'll make the money short like at the top and i'm like it's experienced man again. You know it's like, and you know that. That's where you know i i respect, i mean it's again, you're you, how old are you again: uh 23. you're, 23 and you're freaking, four or five years in man? You you spent a fifth of your life lifetime yeah, you know in this and so it's like, and so when people are like, oh, i don't get it it's like, they probably haven't.

They probably don't have the seat time. You have yeah. I mean again. That's that's incredible.

You know like so that's what i attribute to like understanding, just like how the markets cyclical nature moves because, like um, even in college like every single day, there would maybe be like two hours or three hours throughout the day where i wasn't watching the market. But that's because i was walking the class and looking at it on my phone, you know so. So what is that level of obsession to you? Because a lot of people like will say that they work really hard and it's so easy right. It's so easy to be like oh, i work so hard, i'm so dedicated and yeah brains.

I always love when people are like. I always love like when people are like. You know, obviously, i'm a big reader. I i i that's one of my big habits, but people would be like man, i'm working so hard working so hard working so hard and i'm like well, hey here's like a book and they're like well.

I don't wan na. I don't wan na read a book. No but there's a there's, a good question. Listen, i'm not saying books are the path to success, but don't tell me you're working so hard and you can't take six hours to read a book.

It's like you, ain't doing, you're sitting there off on twitter all day. Long oh yeah, like even when i would work out at the gym, i'd always have like trading audio books on i'd. Just be, i don't know just be doing it all day, yep so yeah so kind of. Can i just ask like so when a lot of people say the grinding it's a term.

That means a lot. It means a lot of different things to a lot of different people so like what does actual grinding mean to you like, if you say, you're grinding, what does it mean? It means to me that you're exploring everything you're, not just exploring your strategy but you're, exploring the counterparts that would like break your strategy. For example, like uh, you got ta look at the losses in a certain setup that you like just as much as you look at like the good in it, and then even that you have to look at like other different angles. So you have to communicate with.

Like probably other traders or even scroll on twitter and see like other people's charts and like think what were they thinking here? You know because a lot of people they just want to sit and maybe watch like a couple, video lessons but, like you have to think. Why is someone saying what they're saying like what do they see and how many hours is that grinding? If you're grinding a dare how many hours you grinded, oh back, when i started or like nowadays, because nowadays it's not as much anymore but back when i started it was probably like i'd wake up around like 5 40 or 6 a.m, i'm in central time. So that's just like right when pre-market opens standardly and then i'd be studying all morning, then i trade for the morning probably study midday trade. Again, i pretty much wouldn't get to bed till around 12 or 1.

and by then i would just like have my laptop on the floor still looking at something i just fall asleep so in in essence, at the end of the day, you were you know in My opinion, you were spending as much time as you possibly could i mean ultimately yeah you had to pretend like you were going to class a little bit. You know. Oh yeah, you had to get to class, you know, but but at the end of the day you were spending as much time as you possibly could well. That was actually the summer of going into college.

Okay, so everybody was going out to grad parties, and i just kind of would hang back and do my thing and then in college it was, it was more or less the same thing. I guess i would even study on like friday and saturday nights nice. I like walk my chick-fil-a back to my dorm and after so now you know, you know something you've mentioned a few times is, you know, is data tracking is reviewing and that's something we really push, and you know everyone does that a little bit differently? So so you know when you're talking about tracking setups when you're talking about reviewing you know, give us a little insight into your your process there, because you know again, everybody's is a little different. So i like to stephen - and i you know we kind of like to expose people to different stuff, so yeah um, so i have two different forms of tracking one is like purely price action and then the other is going to be volume based tracking.

So, let's see where do i start with this, like for a certain setup like a day one gap, i would always take like pre-market volume i'll take the pre-market high, the you can kind of do pre-market low, but it gets a little kind of iffy when you're. Just reviewing it later in the day, but then you take the volume and then you take the open. Then you would get all the extremes. You know.

I would always do like the first minute second minute, high and low. Then i do like five minutes. It gets it goes on and on from the edge and you're doing like like, like a spreadsheet by hand. Oh, it's all spreadsheet: okay, okay, okay, i heard about like what is it called spakeet, apparently they're, really good yep every time, they're kind of one of the new ones, yeah yep supposed to be like an old boomer or something, because i can't figure out how to Use it it's so they offer help, but i just keep forgetting to email them um, but yeah.

Then, when i have like all this raw data, then you can kind of dive into the statistics in it. So it's like, if there's uh x, threshold of volume, like 15 million shares trading pre-market. What is the percentage probability of a 10 like bullish? Push? You know because then, when you have those like quantifiable numbers uh, then the pattern would show up real time and you could say: okay, i mean i could get the borrows and every eight out of ten times you'll get like a five to ten percent push over. Like the open, high or over the open price, and so then you can kind of like you just dive into uh statistics and and it works or just fades.

I know exactly what you're saying and there's a lot like say: 95 percent of traders fail right and it's all the lose the losing traders and it's funny because it's i bet you if you set it like all of the 95 percent of the vast majority, say All right, what's your setup and i'll, tell you a second say all right: do you have like at least 200 samples of data yeah? I know where you're going with the 200 samples. What are your findings when you've interpreted that data, and i bet you they can't get through all of those questions? I bet you the cons, and so it's not like rocket science. It's just you've got to take the steps right and oh yeah and then and the frustrating thing is like say, for example, for me and maybe for you, i like attract like 500 gap. Crops worked super well made some good money and then it stopped.

And now now you're at the point, all right, then now do it next track. The next set up for the next. Do you know what i mean and that's just the game? Oh yeah yeah, it really is really is and then overextending gap down is probably my favorite. I actually never tracked uh data on it.

Well, actually, okay, i checked a little bit, but then i just understood how the pattern moves and all the possibilities in the pattern. So even if i wanted to track data, i guess i wouldn't have every single possible like uh example. Just because the over extended gap, downs have been so much different than two years ago. In my opinion, you know because then you would just get these crazy grinds up.

That would even push green and it would be down like 25 percent and then just go all the way up. So i haven't been able to track like that variation of the setup. Yeah, i mean for me with the overextended gap, downs and i'm not even the i o level, but it's it's just a case of accepting its backside and shortening cutting shortening cutting cutting and just figuring out that the top's going to come because the trade is backside. Well - and i think you know that that that goes back to that staying in the game, because you know again, we i mean i'm assuming you guys will agree, i mean when you're new.

You never want to. Let go it's like i mean it's like it's that whole ego thing. You know you don't want to be wrong, but i mean if you can evolve and you can grow to the point where it doesn't bother you to lose 100 lose 100 and lose 100. You know three times on the way up and then you nail the back and you make it grand.

You know you're up 700 on the day, but you know the problem with it. With with the newer traders. Is they don't want to take that 100 and take that you know and then and then worst case scenario they're adding to a loser? You know and then and then, instead of losing 300 they're losing three grand because again they haven't been around enough and they and they don't know that. Okay, if i take these paper cuts, you know and and worst case scenario.

I take three paper cuts and the thing does: an essay ckt goes to 30 well, at least i lost 100 lost 100. I wasn't adding into that yeah. You know and again that that's where it just goes back to. I think you know again.

If you can back to the beginning of your story, nobody wants to sit there and lose 20 bucks, but i think that's the key. You know it's it's or or what listen? Maybe maybe you got ta? Maybe you start with a 20 grand account you're losing 200 or whatever, but nobody wants to do that and that's why nobody's here, five years later, 23 years old, you know oh yeah, oh yeah. Definitely that's actually kind of funny. That's the situation right now, because i'm in a trade at the moment - and it's just it's just grinding up - i'm like it's just like hx dude, i'm in hx right now and it's great i got - i had an order ready at 11 as a multi-millionaire who can Give advice like if it breaks 11 i'll, take it man i'll.

Take it i'll. Tell you oh i'll risk 500 bucks at 11. um, i'm holding hx, because i'm like this should roll over. It should be backside.

It's like it's just parabolic of its eyes. The day before all the shorts got squeezed out, you know it is, but the volume you know it's just so low. You know, but it's high in comparison to the and stephen. That's why stephen? I know you you.

You did well this morning that that and that's what i said i mean the volume i mean at 9 15. It was trading like a million shares. I mean you heard me, i'm like man yeah, if that was trading 10 million at 9, 15. 80.

Oh yeah we'd have a different scenario right now: oh yeah, i mean right now in my eyes, it's just at the moment where i like cut myself off from taking any ads on the bounce and then it's either. You know you let it squeeze me out or it flops back and then i can just get back to business. You know from the from a big picture perspective i feel like every damn degenerate is staring at bitcoin right now too. You know it's like i mean if i had to pick a reason why hx is low volume, it's just because everybody's sitting there watching bitcoin today and no, you know, nobody's watching this thing, but uh, but uh jack.

How are you on it because, like i mean i'm knowing your numbers, but i was up thirteen hundred bucks on it feeling good and then, like i, give i'm half me profits back at this point and i'm like do i really want to give full gains back If i'm coffee profits back right now, but how are you doing on it? Uh such a headache of a trade honestly um, i had a great short sell in the morning and then i oh uh, no, no after the open, i showed it like 2000 pre-market. I think it's like the ten fives. Then i got like the rest of my size around like ten four and then i was cutting into like the eleven push up into like like five, because you know i did cut it. I slapped it.

I slept way harder right back down, but i'm like oh that's game but uh, but like the thing about that, wasn't why i cut it was because it's so illiquid the hot level was actually 11.68, but the way that they pushed it into the last. Second of the previous candle, it moved it to 11.85. So, like i was still under the impression. The haunt level was 11.68, which i mean, there's really not much of a difference.

I guess i wouldn't have changed me like holding it, but you know, and then the illiquidity i had a good bit of size and that's that's not a hole that i want to be in now now a couple couple more questions. One thing i got like um, you know it sounds like pretty early on. You know. You know, based on what you told us, you know like.

You really seem to have like good like introspection and stuff like like. Like you know, you were wrecking, you know, you know again, you were willing to take 20 losses and stuff. Do you attribute that to anything you know any like training or like parental? You know i mean because again you know i like to pick on. I mean listen most 18 19 year olds.

I mean they ain't, taking 20 losses and they aren't looking at it long term. I mean they they're, like you know what you know i want to. I want to go to a party tonight. I want 500 bucks in my account.

You know um just curious if anything in your background kind of led to that um. Okay, give me the rundown on the question i actually had to google introspection. I was like that's a good word. You you seemed very self-aware like like, like you, you had in my opinion, talking with you, it really sounded like you, you know, you understood your psychology, you understood what you were doing again when i was 18.

You know i was basically brain dead. You know i probably probably when i was 18 to 19. If you gave me like an iq test, i would they'd probably be like this guy's a petrol okay. You know terrible decisions, terrible the decisions i made at that age.

Anyway, you know you, you seem level-headed like you had it together again, any any opinion on. Maybe what led to that or anything here um, i didn't have it together. I i knew one thing tim sykes screaming car losses quickly. I had that going, i mean i was just as much of a degenerate as i should have been.

That's why i kept bleeding my account down because i always wanted to trade, but i figured or i realized like when when i was like in a play. It would really just start working for me. I never had to really use patience of being kind of underwater um. Unlike roland wolfe, i mean he knows his like risks so well, and he knows how to like, like charts form that he could be underwater.

But if it's within his risk he's just gon na keep holding and then suddenly, he would just start up trending again he'd be selling into new highs. I'm like i was like who are you but uh yeah? I was really just cutting losses quickly because that's one thing that i knew i could do right, yeah and again it seems so simple and again you know psycho people. People will give him crap about that because they'll be like that's all you ever say, but i'm telling you man again him and i've been friends for 15 years and again it's like you just hear this recurring theme there's a reason. He says that over and over again you know based on just what i just said, i mean so many people take crazy losses and they're just done they're done in a month.

You know or done in three months and if you could follow that now, as we talk you got ta do the work you got ta put in the time. But again, if you're blown up i mean listen. I i mean it's like 99 quit when there's nothing in their account, so if you can just at least keep something in your account where you've got something to trade with, then you know a year later, two years later things start clicking and then you know you Stayed in the game, so oh yeah, and even when i was just making like small wins, where i make like 50 to 100 bucks a day. I would just tell myself i'm like okay, one day that could be like 10 times that, like 20 times, that i'm like wow, 2 000 bucks a day, 1000 bucks a day, that's crazy, so wow! So you know again another recurring theme that that i've noticed especially lately um.

I don't know if i noticed this as much in the past, but a lot of the people. I've been talking to um, whether it be in the steady trade team or like roland or, like you, i keep seeing this recurring of of like people with athletic backgrounds. Um, you know, i think it's probably just a lot of discipline is, is what is what that is, but do you have you noticed that? Do you think you know you mentioned the lacrosse team? Do you do you think you had that that play into your trading at all or not? You know i was um, so i was actually always super big in the basketball uh. Then, when i made it to high school, i was like i'm going to switch it up one because i was going to school with like an all-star national basketball team, so i'm like i just got to give up on that dream.

I was also one i'm like. Okay, let's pick new sports football and lacrosse and man i was so bad at them. I was so bad at them. I never even knew the rules of football in high school and i was there on the front line or yeah just the line offensive tackle and then lacrosse.

I was uncoordinated okay, so i was really not super athletic loved to play and i love to hang out with, like the guys, because i mean the stuff we would talk about was just hilarious, but that was nothing more than just like the team. Jester justice. Okay, fair enough fair enough yeah. I was much more into weightlifting and stuff nice.

I see roland's filling out now as well. I've seen a couple of these pictures. He looks like he's broken up and stuff like that, since oh yeah he's ready for the winner he's not big in the gym, i can see it but um it like. I know it's a basic question, but it's an important one.

It's like for the people in the first year, the first two years other than cutting losses quickly. How can they get to the next level? How can they get to your level um? That's when you have to record what you're doing and like the trades you're taking you know, i even had like a separate psychology spreadsheet for each trade that i took, but, on top of like what the actual trade spreadsheet was, it was all about like the profit And loss uh your entry or exit and stuff like that, then i was just analyzing it with like different boxes. Throughout of it, then i would go on to the psychology. Was i having fomo? Was i revenge trading? All of that, because you really have to understand yourself, you want to make it because the market, sometimes it's going to feel like it's just targeting you, you know every single stock you buy it, maybe flops every time.

You short, it pushes you out, and it's all about maintaining that, like kind of higher perspective that we're really nothing much unless we're slinging like five 10 million dollar positions, we're probably not the main target in these scenarios. Oh, that's a great push, yeah yeah that that's getting your eleventh target that reminds me. That was my profits on the day that reminds me of 2015. Oh, you know again shorting stocks, i mean it's just like i got to the point where i'm like.

I thought. I'm like i'm like bigfoot, is like targeting me at this point. So yeah there's a liquid push. You know yeah it's a sad day.

I think i even said that. Like 10 15 minutes after the open on hx, i was like you know: i'm taking a loss right into like the high here, just because it's a liquid, if they wanted to really just toy it and push it, they can do it and it looks like they're Kind of doing that now sorry about that - i don't know if you guys can hear that that was my. That was my roomba. It's it's stuck on my cord over there.

So sorry about that. Oh no worries good old roomba! I got a litter, robot self-cleaning cat litter box, okay, crazy now now what does it do with the it does it just like put it like? You got a little cartridge, empty kind of like a roomba or what so yeah. I don't need to pull it out. It's already in a bag just tie it up and throw it kind of reminds me of what i that's, what i'm doing steven when he comes over.

So what is in the box so um. So so again, i uh hx is very intriguing here, yeah, it's popping off all right there. We go we're all any last-minute questions for for dan here, just just how does it feel to be a multi-millionaire? That's that's it, and what do you plan on doing with the money um? Well, i kind of did everything i wanted to do with the money i bought by the way, audi r8 and then about a nice watch, and you know that's kind of just all the plans. Now it's more or less just travel.

I want to go to like different cities for like a month or two at a time and just try them out nice. Those are really the big plans from here on out now. What did you graduate college, then? No, i'm actually uh still in school. Oh i'm doing a graduate program.

What's your major? What's your degree, uh quantitative finance, oh beautiful jesus yeah! It's something a lot of it is that's awful high falutin for us penny stock morons i mean it doesn't even really us penny stock, guys struggle with the addition and subtraction. You know, what's the one with the two lines and the one with the one line you know it's like that. That's the extent of penny stock, guys, oh yeah. I was at the blackjack table in vegas over the weekend and she would put down the cards and i'd be like.

I lost my money and then she'd give me money, i'm like. Oh, i just miss added it. I'm like man, you could have been taking so much money from me all night. Well, hey um! Thanks a lot jack and uh! Absolutely thanks for having me on yeah yeah! Now now one last question you know so so back to you know that that yo, your major, i mean again, do you and listen, i'm not telling anybody out there.

You need to get a quantitative finance degree, but but do you think that has has helped trading shitty penny stocks? You know uh the cool aspect of it is that it finally got me to pushed over the edge to finally learn how to program. So now i'm actually doing some pretty cool uh programming, with like data that i'm exporting from my trading software. Oh yeah, it's some pretty advanced stuff with the volume. That's what i'm saying.

I could okay, honestly not even look at the chart now what like what language you're like? What are you doing that in i'm just using python, i figured that's the only one. You know yeah, perfect, yeah yeah know a little bit of r, but it's more for regressions, but like everything else in this program, it's more like stochastic, calculus and then putting some brownie emotion in it, which that's interesting stuff. But it's mainly going to be used for like derivatives and like much more advanced derivatives like stuff. I've.

Never even heard of like quanto puts - and i don't know so so so, where are you at profits? Wise uh? I don't know i i kind of stopped counting. It's probably close to three million or maybe over it, so so do do. Do the old man a favor, okay, i know i know i'm like i'm like the i'm like the dad of of penny stocks around here. So so do the old man a favor.

You you're 23, you made 3 million in penny stocks, stick with penny stocks, young man, i'm telling you and again i haven't seen it man, i've seen it because people and they branch out and they start doing all this wild stuff and options and futures and i've Seen a lot of bad stuff happen so make the old man happy 3 million at 23, roughly stick with penny stocks and milk that thing for the next 80 years. I could definitely do that and i'll die a happy man so i'll do that i'll keep the derivatives to a minimum there. You go, definitely keep it there. I like that even steven take us out so, oh and and uh it's been a fantastic interview.

It's it's an absolute uh privilege and an honor to have you on it's amazing such a feat of what you've done at such a young age. It's inspiring and uh, and just thank you so much for coming on, and i hope this chat again in a year or two and see absolutely i've been looking forward to that. Thank you guys for having me this is so much fun. I hope you guys enjoyed that video thanks so much for watching and being part of the stocks trade community - we wouldn't be here without you guys make sure you hit that like button and subscribe to the channel.

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