Foreign. Hey welcome back to the Podcast! Thank you so much for listening today! If you have not subscribed on your most favorite platform, please do so today. And hey, at the end of this, make sure you leave a comment so you know me. I Like to keep my pulse on what's happening in the real estate world, the tech world, the mortgage World pretty much business is my favorite hobby and one of the things I get to do is I get to talk to people that have their finger on the pulse I have a lot of conversations I talk with a lot of people I ask a lot of questions but one of my favorite peeps is the guy I've got on the show today and I think this is the second or third time we've done this.

He and his partnership they write What's called the annual T3 Trends report the the company's t360 right? One of the guys that's helping is Jack Miller the CEO Stefan Swan pool has been on the show many times and other one of my heroes any chance you and I get to get I don't want to say her finger more more on the pulse to actually see around the corner to know what's coming today I was on the phone with the CEO and he's like what's happening next what do I need to be aware of and I was able to Rattle off three or four things directly from the trends report. To say this is the stuff I'm paying attention to. These are the things that as owners of companies, as agents, as team leaders, as loan officers, as tech companies we've got to pay attention to. So we know almost the the Zeitgeist of all things real estate.

So to help us do that I've got Jack Miller on the podcast Jack What's up Man happy Tuesday It's great to be here with you again I Really appreciate the opportunity to bring bring some knowledge to all your followers. So uh it's great. Thank you Ma'am One thousand percent So it's funny I was going back through last year's uh Trend report. So so for the people that have never maybe listened to you before or don't have uh context for you guys are give them just a little taste of how much time and energy you guys go through to then articulate and I think this is the 18th year in a row you've done the Trends report like what does that mean? Do you guys just sit in a room for one day, smoke some weed and say what's going on in real estate I Wish it were so easy.

Uh, and it is. It is definitely not So Yeah, this is our 18th year to write a Trends report about the real estate industry and just for context, you know we're about a 40 person company. Uh, we have about almost 30 of our people are in. Consulting working with Brokers teams.

A lot of your, a lot of your top teams have worked with us before doing all kinds of things and once a year we get our group together and spend a day brainstorming what we think is happening in the real estate industry, where we think the market is going and we come up with usually about 20 trends that we think are impacting the industry. Yes, and then we turn it over to our research team to go do research. and then they spend about a thousand hours doing research on what's happening in the industry for many different perspectives from the consumer perspective. Regulatory Financial Uh publicly traded markets? Uh, actual practice? What are people doing in the practice of real estate? Multiple Listing system Association Governance kind of all areas of real estate and then we distill it down usually to nine or ten.

Trends and these if we write about it. Tom These are things that we think industry leaders, uh, top performers should pay attention to. It should be on their executive agenda in some form and it may directly impact how you plan to handle your you know, the coming year or two. Our Trends report is really intended to cover what we think is happening right now and is going to happen over the unfold over the next two to three years.

It's usually about a two to three year window on what we see impacting the the housing market, the industry. the Residential Brokerage Practice 100 so thank you for that and for the for my friend listening. If you haven't followed Jack or his team I certainly encourage you to do so. Um, this this book.

It's interesting for me like I I find myself going through it and again I Think about it like like I'm a subscriber to the Zeitgeist right? So I want to know culturally what's happening in the world, what's hot? what's not? You know what's coming next. It makes me a better dad. It makes me a better business person. It certainly makes me a better you know, just human being to have a sense of what's going on.

So Jack I've got all these questions sort of related to a bunch of the trends you guys are talking about and I'm going to kind of bounce between last year Trends because I think there's some things that are still unfolding. Um, but I want to hit you out of the gate with probably the one thing that I've I've sort of shared with people in a a pretty direct way of saying hey, look, the industry is changing. Commissions are an issue. So one of the things you you guys talked about and I want to I'm taking off my glasses.

It's funny to have to take off my glasses now to read uh, right here Trend Number One Evaluating real estate's compensation structure and its future. So everybody I know is looking at if you're a team leader commission, compression, Consumers agents Brokers The joke is, there's a reason why they call Brokers broker. It's because of the commission models that are out there. So what is the future of real estate commissions and tell me, can we also unpack what we think is going to happen with the class action lawsuit? Yeah, those are great.

Those are great questions Tom and and I've got I've got a few of them. We've written a lot about the commission compression in the industry over the over the past you know, decades. So because it's been a it's been a constant topic and we've written about ways that Brokers and and teams are attempting to cope with that. whether it's offering additional Services through uh, you know, joint ventures where they get into mortgage or title or other areas of the business that capitalize on that same deal flow that's coming through the real estate uh, real estate brokerage side or whether they've done things like developed more of their own business via lead generation programs.

A lot of Brokers have done that or attempted to do it uh, in order to re-margin their business and say look, well, invest in generating business and then we're going to charge a referral fee into our Network So we've written about it a lot. the the big picture here and if you look at on in our Trends report this year we published the the average commission rate over uh, really since 2007 and it's not a pretty picture, it's it's in Decline Uh, there's been pressure. Yeah, there's been consistent downward pressure. uh, on commissions.

You know we're down well well below 4.9 percent. Now for the total Commission on a transaction based on public filings of very large companies that do a lot of transactions And so we think that's going to continue. Which means, uh, brokerages and teams that want to maximize their business are going to need to look for other ways to capitalize on the deal flow that's coming through their organization. Whether that is with you know, Msas or joint ventures, or having some kind of co-shared ownership in other, uh, other Affiliated businesses, or starting up new lines of business to make the brokerage entity not the only thing that they've got going, or the real estate transactional.

it's T not the only thing they've got going, so that's that's kind of. That's been going on for a while now and it's not a news flash to anybody that has been reading uh, you know a profit and loss in this industry for more than a few years, right on the other side. Yes, a really important question about these compensation related lawsuits of which they're they're five of them. One of them's been certified as a class action.

Uh, they. They make a variety of claims, but from a practitioner's perspective what it all comes down to is the sharing of the commission to with the buyer's agent is being challenged in a variety of ways. and there's some you know I can talk a little bit about that and then I can talk to you a little bit about outcomes where we think that this is going to land. so Jack I've been I've been basically saying to clients for the last two years whether I'm you know, live on stage at a summit in a small meeting in a podcast, whatever it may be I basically say look if the class action lawsuit goes through and we have this sort of true bifurcation of commission where I'm going to list my house now for two and a half to three percent whatever rate.

uh, the listing agent chooses to get or charge the seller right and now on the buy side. I'm literally telling agents if your buyer presentation isn't Rock Solid if you can't articulate the hours and time and work you spend to go out and represent them and then be able to say and for this Mr Buyer: Mrs Byer you're going to pay me two and a half percent, two percent, three percent. So I I've been saying this and I I sort of get the you know, like the the x's on the eyes when I say it like do you really think that's gonna happen fairy and I say I think it's going to be one of three things it's gonna happen and if it does, let's be prepared. Get your buyer presentation right, get your value right, or you will be disrupted by Jack I Don't want this to happen, but you know you and I spend a lot of time in this industry I Think it's fair to say a bunch of companies will pop up that essentially say for 500 we'll write your offer and and the entire let's just call it in the U.S 125 billion dollars in commissions.

Half of it gets Arbitrage down to pennies for people that essentially go LegalZoom versus hiring an attorney. So where am I wrong? Yeah, So so you've gotta. You've got it right. You've got it right.

You're You're inoculating people in the best way possible which is articulation and value proposition and negotiating your value and payment on the front end. By the way, people are missing out on commissions due to them right now because they don't do this because they're all they're being offered two percent. They do a ton of work, they fight through multiple offer situations and they're not getting they're They're really not getting the amount of money they should receive based on the level of service they've delivered, right? So that's happening today. So I haven't I even tell people? Look, you know, even if even if nothing happens, this is going to prevent you from being in an environment where you're not getting fully compensated for the amount of time.

And if you do the hours that some buyers agents spend on transactions and realize what they're making per hour, it puts some fight in them. and I'd encourage. That's a good exercise. that's a good exercise but we there's a span of things that are going to happen all the way from nut this is the Nothing Burger nothing's gonna happen By the way, I don't think that's what is going to happen to some level of disclosure is required on the very beginning.

At the first you know serious contact with Uh with a a buyer or sell or Prospect You have to say this is how the buyer's agency Works Here's how I get paid all the way to it has to be included in an exclusive agency agreement which must be signed every time in order for you to get paid which there are some. There are some places where it works that way. There's many states that have already implemented this and I think it's really smart that they're doing that. Sorry to interrupt.

Yeah, no. I I agree. So so what it is. Even if even if it doesn't matter where we land on this Factor we land anywhere on that Spectrum People are going to be better if they're articulating their value and they're negotiating for it and say look, here's what I am requesting to be paid for the services I provide and if I'm not paid by the seller then the buyer needs to make it up to me.

You, you need to pay me for the rest of my services and I I think that's that. That's the big picture here. but but we do. We do think that just our awareness of what's going on with the lawsuits and what we write about in the chapter, it seems likely something's going to happen like something will come out of this in some way, shape or form.

that is going to change how we how we do the compensation at least from a disclosure perspective, right could go all the way. You know the hard part for me is having spent enough time traveling and doing workshops around the world, having clients in you know, 29 countries For all my friends in Europe they're like Welcome to our world all my friends in Australia New Zealand they're like you know South Africa walk into our world and then I say so like this one of my one of my dear friends I think is a client of you guys as well. his name is Michael Pollsler They have about 30 000 agents throughout Europe and you know every nook and cranny and so Michael and I would do these these workshops back in like 2012 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 where we were saying cooperation is the next great Trend Now for my person listening, if you're in like North America you're like what do you mean Well what if I told you that if you were trying to buy a place in district one of Vienna and you and your your spouse were moving there, you would call and you'd say hi, you know, hi I'd like to look at this place at One Two Three Four banana Street and they would say uh, that's not my listing, click and they would hang up on you. Now you think I'm kidding.

but because there was no buyer representation in place, the only thing they wanted to do was sell their own listings. and if you can imagine with no Mls's and no ease of access of information, no no, all the things that we sometimes hate Zillow Realtor Redfin Etc The consumer experience was horrible. So Jack My concern is we're going to go back to 1954 if this gets enacted. I Think the consumer gets royally screwed in the process.

not by the great agents, but by the in the US. The 1.5 million agents take the three or four hundred thousand that are exceptional. Everybody else, there's some legitimate. there's some legitimacy to that perspective.

Tom I Will say on the MLS side of the picture which we wrote a whole chapter about. yeah, some things are having the MLS environment. Uh, the Mls's are working really hard. a lot of the large Regional Mls's and some of the ones that are part of these networks.

To make sure that we have that data that drives so much of the consumer experience, there are going to be some challenges in buyer agency. If if there are changes, there are going to be some challenges there. That's that is absolutely factual. But I Don't think we're going to roll back to 1954.

I Still think we're gonna. We're probably gonna keep some of the benefits that the MLS provides with regard to data, but it will mean that the agents that are participating in transactions will need to be much better negotiating their their commission or they're just going to be out. They're just going to be the the days of I'll drive around and show you some houses don't worry about I get paid. Those days are are coming to an end.

They really are and we will literally see hundreds of discount brokers. think think Uber for buying a house. Literally Okay, I'll pay you. you know, 175 right? at my offer.

So for my client, if you're listening right now, jump inside a loom, watch a coach Alicia Essig she is batting a thousand on meeting with a buyer, walking them through the contract, explaining all the legal, explaining how she gets paid. They sign a buyer brokerage agreement and then her team or her go out and sell them a home. It was one of the most. Jack one of the most popular trainings.

Uh, I mean I think this was done in like January of 2022 right? and still today it's one of the highest ranked shows we've got inside of our you know internal training you mentioned MLS Uh, there was so much Rumble uh at Inman right? Specifically, just a couple weeks ago, I was pinging multiple CEOs of large tech companies not to be named saying all right So Andy is buying everything but your your Trend Number two is the future of Mls's and my response is is co-star The future of the MLS So there there's definitely a lot of reasons to watch Co-star for certain. It is. Um, they bring a lot of uh resources to the table. A lot of capital.

Uh, they're a big operator, they know how to do things well. uh and we wrote about some of this risk in last year's report when we said no, yeah, yeah, massive consolidation trends that are happening with with large tech companies that are buying components. It's a stretch with the structure of MLS for somebody to come into a takeover because it's not buying one thing, it's buying a lot of things and they're controlled by Boards and you have governance problems. You have all kinds of stuff, so it's more likely that you see them offer some kind of alternative or or do some kind of other maneuver.

But you know I I There's still a lot in the MLS category that's happening by Mls's that are trying to prevent that or just trying to provide. You're really just trying to provide better Services They're members and that that's where that's what we're why we rode about Is that that we do have some fairly well-resourced large Mls's and some networks of really strong Mls's right, they're banding together and saying, we're gonna, We're gonna do a a much better job of providing our listings, both to tech companies and also to the buyers and sellers that interact with agents. And I think you and I both agree. There are some MLS leaders that are on the Forefront of innovation.

They understand who their consumer is, the real estate agent, right, that they've got to provide great tools and great resources. And just for the person listening right now, wherever you're watching, make a comment, tell us if you love your MLS or you don't love your MLS and you got to be careful when you make your comments. But just you know. heads up.

But you know I need that feedback. Um, because Jack I You know we. We see some of these Mls's that are smaller that are still sort of mom and pop operators. I Think they're very, um, disruptible if that's even a word.

Whether it's Andy at Co-star Zillow Redfin To a certain extent, the next new thing that comes out. So what is the future of MLS What? Like when you guys were writing this, give us like one or two insights. What can we expect from you know what you were saying I Think everybody. A few years ago, the big talk was about regionalization that we were going to have Regional consolidations.

You know big Mls's like Bright and Serum less and stellar and you know Imred were just going to roll everybody up around them and what's happened Now that some of that has happened, some of that's accurate. Some of those little Mls's you're talking about they're attached to a local Association have just said you know what, It's way better if we just give our give our membership services over to a bigger entity who will do it in a cost-effective way for us and really up our service level. So that's happened. But the other thing that's happened that is novel and interesting is a lot of these Mls's are now working with each other across large Geographic boundaries to provide shared services to let people search up and down.

There's movement right now to allow you know MLS searching up and down the entire East Coast all the way from Florida all the way up to New York that an agent if you're serving a client in in New York or Pennsylvania or Baltimore you can do searches in Florida for them and then have a really quality you know, customer experience and a great referral to an agent in Florida to complete the transaction. So there's some. There's some movement of foot that is beyond just you know. a big big MLS uh rolling up a small MLS that's right next door so so that's part of it.

And in in our chapter we write a lot about those the specifics of how that's happening. So again you know it's the uh Buckminster Fuller Do you know that name? Yeah, create the geodesic dome. So so my mentor God bless him Mike Vance worked with worked for them what he was running. you know part of Disney He hired Bucky to create the geodesic dome at Orlando in 1938 Jack Buckminster Fuller Coined the phrase 1938 people He said ephemeralization, Ephemeralization ephemeralization.

He said with the advancements of Technology we will get more from more and less from less and I was like that's interesting He said until eventually we get everything from nothing Now when I heard that from Mike Vance he said ephemeralization is how do you get a lot out of a little or more for less without eventually spending another dime. What? I Keep seeing with the Mlsis is just a level of efficiency, making an agent anywhere in the world more proficient with their clients with their experience. Do you think that that Trend continues where like I joking They say when I'm in New York I'm like how many of your clients have recently moved to Southern New York and they all look at me and I go, you know southern New York Florida Miami Fort Lauderdale and they all laugh. Do you? do you think this sort of ease of experience is going to drive more multiple? Um, you know multiple licensed stated agents like I'm licensed in Florida and New York Or do you think it's just ease of access for experience and then get them to a good referral partner? the future doesn't show up everywhere all at once at once.

Tom As you know you know, no, they're gonna be. They're gonna be where where you have sophisticated operators that are putting a lot of effort into making transactions easier, making the tools better. All of that and so I think it's I Think your viewers, it's going to be a non-uniform experience. Some people are going to be in certain parts and they're going to say I love my MLS and they found this great stuff and other people can say I'm out in the middle of nowhere and our MLS is kind of old right? and and it's it's okay.

That's just the nature of this business. I Think we all see it coming. It's just coming at the rate that it comes. Given the the size of this industry, the geography, the number of markets, you know, we saw seven percent.

We just did the stats on this we saw between 2020 and now we saw a seven percent reduction in the number of Mls's nationally. We saw a 3.8 reduction in the number of local associations. and so it's happening. But at seven percent over a two or three year period, it takes a while.

But it is happening. It is happening all right. Let's let's switch gears. The song that's going through my mind is it's the end of the world as we know it and I want to skip right I think I mean the first time I've ever sang on my podcast.

Um, by the way, pretty good. Pretty good. Make a comment if you want me to sing more or less on my podcast. Um, but the reason why I bring that up and that specific song is Trend Number four I'm I'm switching and bypassing number three.

uh inside the Nations no no I went to the wrong one number five. excuse me open door silicon Valley's big bet and I literally wrote down is I buying dead but I want to go deeper is I buying dead is Raising capital for prop Tech and real estate gonna be dead for a while I also wanna I wanna just put it out there I think you're hearing it first on my podcast I started saying March of last year Jack with all my top teams all the you know friends of yours and mine I said don't be shocked when Redfin sells. Don't be shocked when Compass gets bought by somebody. Don't be shocked when Realtor.com gets acquired by somebody.

Don't be shocked that Berkshire Hathaway buys everybody Now everyone. of course when I say that goes, what's the inside baseball fairy? What do you know about Redfin What do you know about Compass What do you I go no no no no I've just been in the industry for 33 years. I'm never shocked when the cards get shuffled and the ease of access to Capital goes away that companies that were once Rising Stars so they get Acquired and just become another asset on somebody's shelf. So let's start with eye buying.

Yeah, so so I buy it's It's interesting by buying Brought some legitimate uh, improvements in consumer experience into our industry and then led to power buying and a lot of this kind of integrated real estate mortgage process. right? and just just the fact, Just the fact that the open door consumers I think for the first time ever on at scale were able to register on an app, send over information you know being an optimized be legitimized and I can go look at a house and I don't have to call anybody I can just go and unlock the door myself and go in Now we can. There's again lots of debate we can make about that, but these companies made a lot of investments in changing consumer experience and in in actually innovating inside the mortgage financing process when it was linked up to real estate. So I think we think those changes are things we can learn from and things that are probably they're not going to go.

Poof. Nothing goes completely away. There's going to be some good parts are going to be kept on right and you know Open Door may be out of the business of eye buying, but they might be in the business of power buying and some of these other companies as well where they provide these uh, integrated uh, Real Estate Services products that really optimize the way that people work. So I I think we're gonna.

We wrote this report, we finished, we literally finished typing all the words in late September and then you know we put it into the design and get it all done and then we hear like oh well, you know Eric Wu is now no longer the CEO of Open Door's been demoted and they're repositioning which is predictable which we knew is a risk. But this chapter if you want to know about all the Innovation because they were by far the most Innovative company in this category. If you want to look at the Innovation and see what did they do to the consumer experience, that's what this chapter is about. And there's pieces of this that have already been picked up by a number of companies that are going to continue to keep it and that remain opportunities, right? That will remain opportunities for the industry to improve the consumer experience and the integrated Lending experience as well which is has been challenging historically for many, many years.

And let's just talk about that. You know I'm A, you know Spirit of transparency I'm an investor and a friend of mine started a company called Tomo Network. It's a digital First Mortgage Company It does no refi's it is purchase only and it's agent partnering only and and I asked them why in the world this like we could have rolled up nightclubs. We could have done something fun.

why did you take on the mortgage industry and he said think about the last time you did a mortgage and I said yes It kind of reminded me of going to the DMV and he said and that's exactly why it needs to be done. That's where my my hat goes off to. Whether it's Zillow or open door or so many of the others that were doing this eye buying experiment right. I Think there there is this.

Silver Lining that the consumer deserves a better quality experience. The consumer deserves a better quality experience. Pin, you know and end of story ephemeralization. It's always happening.

So what about capital? A lot of these companies we're seeing. You know, we're seeing all the major companies out there and some of these companies that are publicly traded that aren't hitting their earnings and man they are cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting. What do you think is going to happen? I'm just let's just the ones that are in the headlines. Re Max Compass exp Real just shaved all their real estate commissions for their agents that were out recruiting.

Ouch! But I know Sharon the president of the company. He's a finance guy. He's like if we're bleeding we're gonna make Cuts So what do you think happens? It's it's just that. I think I think this is an industry that loves to have.

uh, he loves to have people to tear down, right? Of course we love a bad guy. We love a bad guy. We go well Zillow is a bad guy I know open door. Maybe open door's a bad guy like who's that guy and it's these new companies bringing in Innovation a lot of times but you know they're They're driven by some very smart, ambitious, dedicated people and they're gonna do what they need to do.

And I think as as much as different. uh you know different companies would like to say hey, they're they're Wall Street funded their Wall Street back their private Equity well so was Amazon so was Facebook so were some of the greatest companies in the world. So so I think it's a little I think it's a little premature to dance on anybody's grave and I think that the the lesson that we learned is well, what are they doing about it and if they're making cuts and they're trimming things up and they're improving their profit margins, guess what? they're doing What everybody should be doing right now, they're doing exactly Bingo It's the same thing we've done with every CEO and every team that we talked to. Here's the Smart Cuts Just don't cut into your growth because that's where you get into trouble and everyone all my friends know Jack like I am like you guys I'm Switzerland I Work with everybody but all you got to do is just open up Inman Which is you know, sometimes comedy because it's just you know who's sleeping with who in real estate right? But all those companies as their earnings come out, you're going to see these adjustments I think you said the right thing.

All the great companies, all of them out there. every great brand we know, run by smart people trying to do the right things in an environment where in some cases like in Southern California if transaction count is off by 40 or 45 percent, you know you're already a real estate broker. You don't want to become a really, really, really broke ER So you got to make adjustments. So so let's let's switch gears.

Let's talk about um, looking down my list here. Oh yeah, Trend Seven 2023 Real Estate Brokerage Talent Playbook What were you guys trying to get across there to? Maybe maybe give the The Listener What was the what was the aim here? What do you see is the trend? Yeah, the trend here is you know the talent landscape has changed over the last four or five years and some of that is acceleration of Trends from the pandemic with uh, just the way the market works now and and how you know how hiring works now. The other is um, companies and especially teams. A lot of the big teams that you work with are understanding that they need to specialize and have specific people in different roles within their organization in order for them to continue to grow and be really successful.

And so in this chapter we kind of summarize like these are all the changes we're seeing in the talent marketplace with really with respect to management Executives staff uh, all the kind of key roles that we think are important for brokerage companies for big real estate teams. Uh, you know for any anybody that's an operator, whether it's a franchise or just any kind of big company. So we went through and said these are the trends that are impacting now and that was really the goal for the chapter. Part of it was Kelly White who runs our talent practice and does a lot of our placement and recruiting for for clients for many of your clients as well.

Uh, she's like I'm having the same conversations I'm trying to keep trying to get everybody up to speed on what's going on in the market right now and so that's that's why I said, you know what? Let's do a Trends chapter on this because it feels like that that Talent Market has has shifted in the last five years. It's so interesting. Jack You? You know that? I You know Constantly we're surveying our top teams, our Elite clients, our management, clients, and I'm always asking like what is the hottest role you're trying to fill right now? what is the biggest need you have And it seems like every year depending upon the you know the group you're talking to, it could be operational excellence I Need the integrator who can sort of put everything together for me to allow me to go be the Visionary or to go out and you know go be the best listing agent on the team as an example. Then it was recruiters for a long time.

Then it was oh my. God I need marketing. Then it was I Don't just need marketing I need social I need digital I need to be able to do unbelievable Google ads and Facebook ads to try and generate more low-cost leads with no Arbitrage I mean so it's always changing. What do you think is the hottest for a broker right now for a team lead? What is your team saying is the hottest role that needs to be filled right now? So we're filling.

We're filling a lot of roles, but I'll tell you the ones that keep coming up. Yeah, are people that wear a title? something along the lines of the Chief Growth Officer or a Director of Growth And it's really it's A it's a level above. Now for a while it was recruiters and it's still. Recruiters are always nice, always always.

but now it's it's a level up from that where we're finding people that are saying Hey I want an executive that's thinking about growth from a more broad-based perspective and it's in charge of my growth programs which is recruiting, increasing production and merger, acquisition right, and ancillary services for the companies that are decided to get into that. But they're really looking at and saying I'm going to put in in charge of somebody who's in who's going to drive our Top Line performance in a variety of ways strategically as opposed to tactically I Mean tactically You just hire a recruiter and say go recruit or you hire a coach and you say go coach my agents to you know, be more productive but this is. we're seeing people wanting to manage that and have a structure and a plan for us I Think that's and it's one of the positions we wrote. There's a little job description in our report for that and we've said this is one of the one of the hottest positions.

Recruiters are still very important. Uh. Operations People like Chief Operations Director of Operations people that drive efficiency. The other Trend this is a long trend line that we're on.

The other trend line is uh, more transactions per agent. Like that is the trend line, the most productive companies and the way that people are getting there is with good operation support and good operations people. They say Look, we can process thousands of transactions very efficiently because we have an Ops Team in place that can do it right and so that so we see those roles being the ones that continue to be sought after and and hired by many of our clients. You guys wrote about this trend a long time ago and I think it probably needs to be maybe resocialized and it's something that 2012 I was talking to Stefan about it.

And then we launched our team stuff in like 2014 and what I saw was the realization that a lot of team leaders had. The Epiphany sales people should work with clients and do nothing else. That's it. they should just hi, let's go look at a house.

hi thanks for having me over. Let's talk about getting your home in the market and a really good salesperson. They should just go on three four appointments a day. They should not be involved in the paperwork.

They should not be involved in the transaction. They should not be involved in which way the photo should be taken to launch a listing and and we've seen that. Certainly, you're talking about operational excellence. We've seen that Trend really shine like I'm thinking about um Teresa one of our clients a Re Max team leader down in Savannah Georgia Her per person productivity is like 40 transactions per agent.

That's right, it's unbelie and they make great money. They sell a ton of houses. She's a beautiful operator. Big shout out to Teresa but she gets it.

Sales people should sell houses and nothing else. Jack I Should have done this right out of the gate. Write this down everybody really fast. T The number three Trends T3trends.com forward slash Tom Ferry T3trends.com forward slash Tom Ferry If you have not bought the trends book, if you want the Zeitgeist for all things real estate to go deep on this: I Highly recommend it I buy every year I Get it from my coaches.

It's just one of those things that when you have it, you just have a little extra Edge over I Don't know 95 of the people inside your Marketplace and if you're looking for a degree of separation, hard to argue against this level of intelligence. So T3trends.com forward slash Tom Ferry I'm sure Jack there's a bananas special promotion something very good. Yeah, we have a special Tom Ferry price in there and I appreciate you sharing the link to that. Um, definitely there's a you can get a digital only yeah.

and if you want to add a print copy which I I Highly recommend adding in print copy because you can do what I do to it. which is even though we wrote it I still mark it up I still highlight it I go through I work off of this I've got highlighted versions of our Trends reports when I'm Consulting with our clients over here so 100 I'm gonna hit you with one last one. Uh, so you have inside here Trend Number Four uh, inside the nation's largest most profitable mortgage or excuse me brokerage company I Know who but who and why as Home Services of America And and you're Hold on? Hold On You mean some would argue the most boring Real Estate Company Warren Buffett Owned is also the most profitable. Surprise surprise Yes, surprise surprise.

So so it is. It is. So we have been talking to: Home Services for years. we've obviously known we know.

Gino We've known the management team for years, but they're you know. Hold On Hold On! Jack I Gotta just say for the people listening: Geno is a personal client of mine I Cold called him 33 years ago and invited him to come to one of my dad's Superstar Retreats and I think he gave me Jack a credit card and signed up just to get me off the phone and we've been friends for 33 years so I knew I knew who it was and I love seeing him ranked as the number one most influential. But there's there is so much to unpack in the way that they operate his four disciplines of execution. So so just I I interrupted I Apologize Unpack.

Why? Why? Why are they so wildly successful Or just profitable? So Real Estate? I Think people get confused in this industry Sometimes when they come in and they think this is a game of ideas, they go. This is a game of ideas, I'm going to have the next big idea now. Ideas are important, ideas are good. Innovation Innovation is good.

We need ideas, but this is an industry that's really one with execution like it is an execution because it's a transactive industry. It's a high volume. It's a consumer facing like there's a lot of trans. 4 million, five million, six million transactions in the industry.

So that is a game that you win via execution. And if you're looking for a profitability standpoint, it's all about how efficient you are and how well you execute. and that's something that Home Services has done very well and we wanted to give them some recognition and credit for that and actually spend some time. So we were able to spend some time with their management team.

We interviewed a lot of their internal leaders and said how do you get done the things you get and first of all tell us all the things that Home Services does because a lot of people don't know about the company either aware of it and then how do you get these things done And that's really what we wrote about it in the chapter is is how they look at their products and services collectively and how they work to be as efficient as possible and bring those services to the consumer in a united front which I think is something that you know we talked about. We started this conversation with talking about commissions and commission challenges and declining declining overall profitability of brokerage, right? And you know, and this is, this is what they've done. They've accepted that and they've just executed uh, on that relentlessly, which is has gotten them to the position they're in today. And I think you know for the listener, that's an important distinction it's not about you know, in this case, we're You know, I'm not.

We're not dogging Jack and I any of the other brands. We're acknowledging that they just focus on recruit quality agents and get them to produce and then make sure they use mortgage title and Closing Services as much as possible because that's the cycle of pro productivity, efficiency, and profitability in any real estate business today. So big shout out to Gino who I Love! All right Jack! So you know we've gone through a bunch. There's a lot of Trends here I Think everyone should just go to T3trends.com forward slash Tom Ferry You should get a copy digital or print whatever they want to do.

but let's do some. uh, let's do some. I'm gonna ask you some what's hot? What's not great? Are you with me? All right? Zillow Hot or Not um Zillow I think lukewarm. I think lukewarm.

Okay, I don't think I don't think cold but I don't think hot either I think right now. Okay, all right, Realtor.com Hot or Not Well, apparently hot enough to cause the Murdoch's to decide to, uh, unload them and co-star to be excited to take them to the dance. So so I think I think Culture.com is hot right now. from that perspective.

Uh, we'll we'll see what happens under new ownership. If that actually happens, you know we've seen some improved performance out of them over the years. They did a very nice acquisition with OP City but you know it's not optimized yet. It has some work that needs to be done to it for sure.

I I Agree. Okay inside. AKA KV Core acquiring Boom Town Hot or Not Oh Super hot. Super hot.

Yeah, Oh I got a super hot out of you? Yeah, that's a big that's a big deal. So so um Boomtown those of you that have been in the industry for a while Boomtown has been kind of a a really Mainstay lead generation product is much for the CRM product and the lead generation itself. As for kind of the culture of the company, they have very strong events. People really like being part of that.

Boom Town You know Collective uh that they've created so really strong company culture and inside Real estate has had, you know. Capital uh Vision Uh, a desire to scale on some of the biggest Enterprises and an acquisitive mentality. They've acquired a lot of different things and so I think you put those two things together I Think we're gonna get something. That's that's very different out of it because they they inside real estate filled in something they they had some duplicate functionality.

not the same company, not the same uh you know devotion that I think a lot of Boomtown users have had over the years. Yeah, I agree I I agree 100 and yes I am an investor in uh Boomtown So I'm super excited for Greer and I now have gotten to know Joe the CEO and I think the two of them together I think everybody all their clients are gonna win which means all of Re Max all of exp right? Like all these huge you know, uh, home services and of course everybody was already with Boomtown So it's gonna be fun to watch. um Jack Proptech right now I'm gonna make a statement and I want your your opinion I Was sitting at dinner a couple nights ago with a bunch of investors and they're like what do you think fairy is it over for a while and I said no I said hundreds of thousands of really smart people. they might have been B-minus players, they might have been C plus players at Google and all these other companies are all getting laid off right now and they're all gonna have a chip on their shoulder and they're going to want to innovate.

I I am convinced. Just like in Seven, Eight Nine Ten, we saw some of the greatest Innovation that impacted all of us in housing. I Think we're going through it again right now Jack What are your thoughts? So I I think you're right I think you're right the the uh the prop Tech Revolution is not over and the reason is there are so many other markets that have been you know thoroughly gone after by technology companies right? and where it's very clear like oh yeah, video streaming services on delivery services of many different flavors. There's lots of things that Tech has been applied to.

Real Estate remains still an untamed industry in many respects. Like we've had a lot of work done to it. Yeah, but what we just did is the people in Proptech learned a lot. They just learned a lot and they're going to go back and rethink and re-engineer and come back because the opportunity is still there.

As you know, real estate is. it's the biggest Market we have. It's an enormous market and so there's a ton of opportunity for them still in this market so they're not going to give up. Need it by neither of the banks, neither mortgage companies neither Finance financial institutions I think we like to.

We like to be angry when they you know come into our industry and then we like to cheer when they get shut down or they have a problem or they get bought up. but their their move. They continue to move into our industry with Innovation and bringing Innovation and I think I think we should roll with it and it's we're not done and I would agree with you I think we're going to see I think we're gonna see more of it. uh by some very smart, dedicated, talented people that want to make the home buying transaction easier for everybody in the U.S Five percent of the GDP is all things real estate transactions and 17 is all things housing everything associated with a home that is a enormous addressable market.

So of course they're going to continue to go after it. I Know you guys are seeing a lot of deals. I probably had 10 really good pitches already this year on companies that I'm like I want to buy this entire company or pass right and you know, usually predicated on the same stuff you know. is there a big enough addressable? Market Are they solving a really good problem? Do they have a great management team? You know? Are they going to be well capitalized and and my big one and I know you.

You get this is do you care about the real estate agent? If you care about the real estate agent, you have me as an ally. If you in any way, shape or form think you're going to disrupt real estate agents or disrupt they. you know if they call it like well, you know just the average Joe We want to disrupt them I'm like meeting's over. Thanks Thanks Every agent matters.

You know what I mean Of course we want the most successful ones to sell more and do better, but I'm super bullish. I Think this is this is going to be a year where we're going to see some really cool companies, harder to get financing, harder to get. You know that to get that early seed money, capital, and maybe a series A that is worthwhile. But if you're listening this and you're one of those people, hold out.

stay true to your dream, roll up your sleeves, it works 75 hours a day and get the job done. And then call. Jack and I How about that? Yeah? Agree. Agree.

Closing closing thoughts: Closing thoughts: So this is going to be a year that you know we're seeing in the market. We're we're really gonna. You're gonna put your shoulders in this year. So we think it's why we write the trends report.

Every year we write it to give people that. Advantage By the way, there's a couple of really good chapters on the benefits of home ownership. Let's really do a deep dive on that, right? Helpful Right now. If people are sitting on the sidelines, there's another chapter on just where the home, uh, industry Trends are right now.

Who's moving where what other regions and sectors and kind of big picture kind of how things are moving around so you know we're We're always bullish on long with real estate. This is going to be a year where people really have to put their shoulder into it and and get to work because that's where we are. That's just where we are and I know your clients are that way. We're that way.

you know we've been. This is not our first time to see a year where there's a lot less transactions, but make use of the ones. You get to grow your market share and capitalize on the opportunity that a that a slower Market presents to you, right? So I would just say to everybody. if you look at the trends over the last 20 years, this is actually just a normal market, right? You call it, you know? 4 million, 4.2 million, you know, home sold residential not including new construction.

which probably told us that 5 million total houses two sides of each transaction. Lots of opportunity. But the argument I'm making for everybody Jack is twofold. First, whoever is marketing and having consistent conversations, meaningful conversations, and scheduling appointments.

They are winning right now. Which I will end with this point Jack I'd say to people all the time you want to know what's working right now. People ask me all the time Tom Ferry What's working right now Jack Ask me what's working right now, What's working right now Tom You know what's working right now working. That is what's working right now.

All my friends know they're giggling right now. but You know what? I'm saying. It's getting over your feelings and making the phone calls. It's getting over your feelings and sending the email.

It's getting over your feelings and setting the text. It's getting over your feelings and shooting the video. It's getting over your feelings because no one cares how you feel. starting with your bank account.

Get out there and do the work. Make sure you get over to T3trends.com Forward slash: Tom Ferry Jack As always thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you I Hope to see you in Austin soon I'm gonna be down there in March so we'll see you soon my friend. Thanks so much! Great all right Thank you my friend for watching. We'll see you guys soon Foreign.