Boeing (BA) Stock - What Keeps Me From Investing. Boeing just disclosed new problems with the 787 Dreamliner and they way its being handled by the airline and the FAA is extremely alarming, and reminds me about the 737 MAX scandal. The Boeing 737 MAX airliner was grounded for almost 2 years, a world record, after 346 people died in two 737 MAX crashes 6 months apart from each other in 2018 and 2019. Boeing began to develop the 737 MAX over a decade ago as a competitor to the highly popular Airbus A 320 and its variants, its basically a bus. A cheap short range commuter plane that is designed to perform multiple flights per day.
This is a thing margin category where every dollar counts. Boeing was feeling the pain from Airbus, as they came out with a new much more fuel efficient engine that made the A320 a cheaper plane to operate. Those engines were larger than the older generation engines, but since the 737 MAX was based on the older 737, it was much lower to the ground compared to the A320, since this plane was not designed for sleeves but rather mobile staircases for passengers to embark and disembark from the plane.
Boeing had no choice, they needed the new engines. This wasn’t a question of IF but rather HOW. The new and larger engines needed to be placed higher of the fuselage compared to existing engines, since the plane was simply too low.
Placing the engines higher significantly altered the aerodynamics of the 737 MAX and that required new pilot training, which would mean extra costs which was unacceptable. Thus, Boeing created a software fix to get around it, they called it the MCAS, which would cause the airplane’s nose to pitch down at times to counter the weight of the bigger engines sitting higher on the body of the plane. Only thing is, they never told the airlines, nor the pilots, this plane was marketed as completely plug and play plane, just take regular 737 pilots and they can fly this thing with no extra training. This was done to improve the competitive strength of the 737 MAX vs the more modern A 320.
Pilots flying the 737 MAX were given no information, training or materials relating to MCAS, despite the fact that the MCAS system could effectively takeover the plane at any time.
It only gotten worse from there, on October 29, 2018, Lion Air Flight 610 crashed after takeoff killing all 189 passengers and crew. Weird how that was not enough to stop this from getting any further. Five months later, on March 10, 2019, Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crashed shortly after takeoff, killing all 157 passengers and crew.
Three days later, Boeing’s 737 MAX was grounded.
So Yesterday Boeing discloses a new problem with the 787 Dreamliner, a plane that has been dogged with problems ever since its creation. According to Boeing, some of the planes' fuselage is not joined together properly.
Boeing was actually having a great month so far, they just delivered 45 jets last month and the orders for new jets, including the 737 MAX seemed to be picking up again. They needed it, they just lost $20 billion in the past 2 years alone and finally, they should be able to post profits for Q2 for the first time in a while, but yesterday’s news make it clear that Boeing’s quality and transparency issues have not been fully resolved.
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Hey this is tom and boeing just disclosed that they have more issues with the 787 dreamliner. That's not in itself a huge issue, because we kind of grown used to it from boeing, but the thing is the way this crisis is being handled. Reminds me, unfortunately, a lot about the 737 max fiasco, and that is alarming. Mike take a look at shares of boeing, it is under pressure, as the company is announcing that it has a new issue with the 787 dreamliner, and when you hear what are those issues they're having with the 787 dreamlander you're gon na blow a gasket? It's not faulty dvd screens, it's not clogged up toilets.

It's massive massive issues that has to do with the structural integrity of the plane. The way the fuselage is basically being held together now this is major news. The problem is that it seems that boeing and the faa are now saying well we're going to stop production and delivery of new planes and we'll figure this thing out, but existing planes can keep on flying no problem, you're, okie dokie. Everything is gucci now for me.

That sounds like a lot of nonsense, but i'm going to talk more about it in a second first. We have to go through the history lessons here, because boeing is showing systemic failures with dissimilar issues 617 days. That's how long the 737 max jets have been grounded 737 max actually was a plane that was developed by boeing for over a decade. It started developing in 2011 as a competitor to the buses, so the airbus a321 neo a320.

Essentially, it's a bus. It's supposed to be in the air all day, long flying multiple flights cheap to operate cheap to maintain its bus. Now. The whole thing is that airbus has been pretty much kicking boeing's butt in this category and this plane was supposed to be the solution, because finally, boeing actually got the newer engines that were being used for the airbus a320.

It's a much cheaper engine. The only issue is that it's a much bigger, physically bigger engine and the 737s could not handle it, because the way these 737s were historically designed, they were much older planes than the actual a320s and they were much lower to the ground for a purpose. Essentially, they didn't have sleeves back. Then they had these staircases, which were basically deployed by trucks, so the plane needed to be lowered to the ground.

It was just a design decision that actually was relevant back in the day when the 737s actually went into the service. Now, as the 737 went through, these various integrations and improvements and upgrades, it still remained the key design features and putting a huge ass engine on this plane was not possible because the engine will literally hit the ground. Now boeing was faced with an impossible decision. They either don't use these newer engines and they basically keep losing the battle to airbus, or they find a way to integrate this big ass engines into the old 737 and they decided on the latter.

There was no question of if but how and because it's a very thin margin category they basically had to make that this plane is going to be a plug and play plane. Essentially, the 737 pilots can just pretty much sit in this new plane and just fly. It without any additional training, because the plane was marketed as a complete competitor to the a320 and there was no additional training for a320. So essentially, it's either a cost to the airlines or to the manufacturer to train more pilots.
In any case, they couldn't afford it, and so the solution they found was a software fix called the mcas, a system that was wholly designed to just change the way the spherical plane works just to keep it level with the engines being much higher, but the cool Thing about it, is they never let the pilots or the airlines know about it, and this is quite alarming, because this system essentially could take over override the pilots and take over the plane, which it did twice once and then the second time killing 350 people within Six months now, the first crash should have been enough, but the second crash is really where they pretty much had to actually go disclose. What the hell just happened - and i find it kind of weird that nobody went to prison for this whole thing nobody's in jail, nobody's in prison and now life just moves on, but again we're in business here. So let's talk business now i want to be very clear here: we're talking about a company that literally told nothing to the pilots, about a system that can potentially override them and crash the plane which it did is now saying that the 787 has issues that basically Halt production and deliveries, but the existing planes can keep on flying without a problem. I don't find it very reassuring, given the history of this company, excuse me, and now, let's talk about what's going on with the 787 dreamliner, or rather a nightmare aligner.

At this point, it's a plane, that's been plagued with issues and here's another issue for you. They're actually now concerned about fuselage issues, and i want to be really clear here: it's not that they think that the plane is going to disintegrate in mid-air, but these are real safety concerns. I mean anything that has to do with the fuselage of the plane. Is a big deal even if the risk seems remote now, according to boeing themselves, i'm not making this up.

The 787 dreamliner has potentially issues with the fuselage not being joined together properly. Are you freaking kidding me? This is literally basically like saying well, this plane can fall apart, hey deal with it, i mean what the hell is going on here, but wait. It gets better because boeing, let us know that everything is a-ok. They working with the faa to solve this and fix this, and, in the meantime, you can keep on flying on the existing 787s without a problem, even though they're not going to be delivering any new planes in the near future.

What is going on is this: the upside down world from stranger things in which logic system does. This thing sounds right to you. Imagine this and airline comes out and says: well we have concerns about the fuselage structural integrity, but you can come flying, don't worry about it. What the hell are they talking about? Where is the faa? However, you have to give them credit for being consistent.
This is the same company that thought it was okay, not to tell pilots and airlines about a system that can override the steering and basically crash the plane. If you follow that logic, it's extremely consistent with what they're saying now a plane can literally fall apart in mid-air, and it's still okay to fly it because don't worry about it! It's going to be probably okay, what the hell! Now i don't know what about you, but i'm gon na be checking every flight i take from now on to check which plane exactly i'm getting on and you do the same or don't it's your decision, but i'm definitely gon na follow up on that issue. From now on - and you know what i feel bad for people who are employed by this company and put food on their table, because this company pays them salary. However, that cannot be an excuse to sweep these issues under the rug because they were about to.

They were having an amazing month, 45 deliveries. This month i mean they're about to actually turn the profit. For the first time. In two years, eight quarters 20 billion of accumulated loss now they're about to turn the profit.

The 737 max is on orders. Again, everything was looking great and now this now this is not a coincidence. This isn't murphy's law. This is just a manifestation of the bigger disease this company is facing, and i want to talk more about it and for that we have to go way back 25 years back the downfall of boeing.

In my opinion, and by the way, everything i say here is just my opinion might be. Inaccurate might be wrong, maybe just ramblings of a madman just do your own research and decide for yourself, but, in my opinion, the downfall of boeing, the whole 737 max thing. The 787 dreamliner this whole story started 25 years ago and we're just in the final act of our longer story. Now, what happened 25 years ago was peculiar and i'm being very gentle with this, because we had an amazing engineering focus company like boeing, with their standards of quality, basically merging with a company like mcdonald douglas now, mcdonnell douglas was known for probably the most unreliable plane In history, in my opinion, which is the dc-10 insanely unreliable and in fact the plane that killed the concorde, if you look back at history, it had a piece: a metal piece fall off the plane just before it took off, and then that piece actually punctured the Conquered wheels basically crashing the concrete in paris, so this plane, the dc-10, the mcdonald douglas flagship plane literally had bits and pieces falling off.
It now had poor culture. They were basically all about cutting costs. Economics share price, basically everything that boeing was not and when you have this merger, you kind of expect that the good company will teach the poor company the good culture, but instead the mcdonald douglas people took over and brought their shitty culture into boeing. Unfortunately, and the stuff they did are mind-blowing, let me tell you a little bit about it in the 25 years that followed that merger.

This company was basically now at mcdonnell, douglas 2.0 they're chasing profits, they're cutting costs, the execution now sucks. Unfortunately, in the past 25 years the fame engineering legacy of boeing has been tarnished for those 25 years. We've seen a lot of managerial decisions that led to what's going on right now, 20 years ago, this company decided brilliantly to take its management headquarters and rip it from the beating heart that is boring in seattle and put it in chicago. They could have put it in the ukraine for that purpose.

What the hell now this was done intentionally to separate between the management and the engineers in order not to get emotional in order to get business accounting and they succeeded, the company is more efficient than ever. The costs are cut as much as they've ever been. Everything looks great in the financials amazing. However, look at the results, the 737 max and now what's going on with the 787..

This is not a coincidence. This is a direct result of the engineering culture being abandoned. Systematically for over two decades in favor of this accounting numbers pushing now, listen, i'm a numbers guy, but there's one thing: i know if you don't have good engineering, the numbers are going to be temporary. You cannot have sustainable good numbers without a dedication to quality engineering, especially in the alien industry.

Come on the whole idea of where the 787 dreamliner came from. It's not a dreamliner for the passengers, it's a dreamline for the airlines. The only thing this plane does better than the 747 is it's cheaper. It has two less engines, it's smaller.

It can fit into smaller airports, and that is it so basically they're saying well, you can fly with two less engines over the atlantic. Ah, it's gon na be okay, pretty much! That's the whole thing here. It's just about cost. Saving this plane, in my opinion, is no better than the 747 in any capacity other than it's cheaper, to run now that in itself, shouldn't be a problem in the whole industry is basically around cost saving.

That's fine, however. However, the whole idea behind this plane goes against the whole culture of boeing. Boeing didn't make this plane like they made their other planes. This plane has been outsourced out.

The wazoo multiple parts of this plane is not even manufactured by boeing. This plane has been outsourced and basically contracted to manufacturers around the world to make it as cheap as possible as efficient as possible, and the only thing boeing is doing is basically assembling this plane, while it's being manufactured all around the world, which is something that, if You said to a boring engineer: about 25 years ago, you're gon na get laughed out of the building, but now that's the reality, but the numbers follow. You can't say that and say: well tom, that's the reality! That's how you make money. Look at the numbers, while boeing and airbus are pretty much neck and neck in the long haul business.
The short haul business where the real money is is where airbus is literally killing. Boeing a321 neo is selling five to one versus the 737. Max they've already lost that battle beyond the max beyond the 787 origins, the financials they don't lie. Boeing is getting shellacked by airbus and the a321 versus the 737 max and that's a direct result of basically saying well.

We care about economics, not about an engineer and that's coming from a guy who's, all about numbers, but you can't be 100 numbers and just put in the toilet, your entire origins, your entire backstory, your entire engineering heritage. That was a cataclysmic mistake by boeing's management and now 25 years later, they're paying the price, because it takes a lot of time for this to float up and now it is unfortunately, and that is why i'm staying away from the stock, because i see no future Until they rectify their culture, i think the way they're doing business the way they're building planes. They can have a good year here and there you might make good money day trading or swing trading, but it's a long term. 10 year investment.

I don't like where this company is headed, but again this is just my opinion. I've been wrong before i might be around again own research, as always a huge shout out to the channel members and the patrons i'm sorry for getting a little bit emotional on this video. I just love aviation so much those of you who are ogs on the channel. You know i love planes and this has been a pet peeve of mine and now that i see that it's actually materializing to bad business for boeing, i feel bad for the engineers.

I feel bad for people who dedicated their life for boeing now they have to see that happen and i honestly hope they'll find a way to do it. It's been a pleasure spending these few minutes with you. I hope you're having an amazing day i'll, see you tomorrow.

By Stock Chat

where the coffee is hot and so is the chat

36 thoughts on “Boeing (ba) stock – what keeps me from investing”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Josh Hartley says:

    Managed to pick up the stock at £80 in 2020, still holding.

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Caleb Crow says:

    If you want another Boeing horror story, look into Starliner. At least with that one, no human lives have been risked yet.

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Max Well says:

    FYI airlines are ordering the Max hands over fists because it is reliable and efficient. Some airlines such as Alaska and SW, went back to flying just Boeing MAX (737) after using or considering the Airbus 320.

    The story of the Max is too long for me to explain by typing.

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars EnergeticWaves says:

    Cost per available seat mile (CASM) is a common unit of measurement used to compare the efficiency of various airlines. It is . Generally, the lower the CASM, the more profitable and efficient the airline.

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Greg Culverwell says:

    Chasing profit is exactly why Boeing shareholders wanted the merger. MD was building lousy aircraft, but they knew how to wring money out of it. So take Boeing's reputation and combine it with the masters of penny pinching & you will have a money making machine – at least for long enough for the investors to realise a great profit.

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars EnergeticWaves says:

    china will soon be selling 320 style planes, so relax till then.

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars EnergeticWaves says:

    where is the corruption business or f a a paid to look the other way?

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars EnergeticWaves says:

    must be a good company, the top execs have made billions off it.

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars google user says:

    Airlines getting bailout from US govt have no option but to buy Boeing planes. Also Boeing is more of a political weapon America use worldwide. Any country that wants to improve relations or reduce trade deficit with US simply buy some Boeing airplanes

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Sudarsh Suresh Mallaya says:

    Honestly, I dont blame management, J blame board, they should go to jail. There is reason we have board of directors for such oversight

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mighty Tiny says:

    Tom, you posted a survey yesterday. I can't decide. I wish there was an option 4 "Tom doing what Tom likes":)

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Michael O'Farrell says:

    Tom you are 100% Correct, Living in Seattle we have watched this unfold since that day 25 yrs ago we watched Boeing move there offices to Chicago, the Company was slowly flushed down the toilet in exchange for stock price. We have watched our beloved Boeing slowly get there asses kicked by Airbus, I no longer feel safe flying Boeing aircraft, and have not for many years even before this latest problem. Many many people that work for Boeing Will tell you they won’t fly on Boeing planes.

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jonathan Mentink says:

    The great MBA (Master of Bullshit & Agony) outsourcing strategy fully at work at Boeing as similarly impacted incumbents the automotive battle for their lives against the newly emerging EV producers ….. that is “balance sheet and big management bonus’”over “brains Innovation and engineering”…. guess who is winning? Now I can’t wait to see them respond to the rapidly emerging prospect of electric aeroplanes! ✈️

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Joshep Hand says:

    McNerny broke the union, Douglas management destroyed Boeing

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars David Moshe says:

    No offense but I think you’re smoking…
    Airbus and Boeing both have in house designed parts as well as outsourced parts.
    As a matter of fact Boeing supplies airbus with parts as well.
    The difference really had to do with Airbus’s future outlook with regards to the a220. Boeing’s laid back attitude back fired on them as they made a bet on wide bodies being the future. In the same way Boeing made the Dreamliner so did Airbus with its A350 XWB…

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Engineer Blake says:

    Can you please let us know what you think of High Tide (HITI), recently posted 99% revenue growth, trying to become the Starbucks + Amazon of Cannabis. Looks like a gem.

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Enron Exec says:

    The new software written for the 737 Max was also outsourced to a company in India. The Quality Control for the Software was also outsourced to another company in India.

  18. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Paul Pedersen says:

    Typically, MBAs understand nothing about engineering, so they tend to see engineers as identical replacement parts. If that's the case, cheaper is better, is what they think. Big mistake.

  19. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Paul Pedersen says:

    Southwest Airlines would do well to reevaluate their Boeing-only strategy. In fact, they should have done that years ago. If they don't start buying Airbus, Boeing will drag them down.

  20. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Paul Pedersen says:

    This is what happens when beancounters take over an engineering company.

  21. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Edith says:

    We should all know by now that poor decisions are often rewarded when you’re the only game in town. What’s Boeing alternative in the US? Exactly. Morally I don’t support them, financially I know it’ll do well regardless.

    Oh and I will go out of my way to avoid flights that use Boeing.

  22. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Santiago Dunne says:

    Hello Tom, I followed your advice and did my own research.
    I will not comment on MD management.. but I will correct a few facts on the 737 issue. From what i read it affects all variants, it is not specific to MAX. The failure is a sensor that may fail open… i.e. may not trigger when it is supposed to. When triggered, this switch would send signal that oxigen masks need to be deployed. In the article it says that the FAA sent an AD (airworthines directive) to the operators, to do inspections within a given time frame, judged to be safe based on reliability analysis (Failure Rate & Consequece of the failure). The entire industry works this way. It is "Risk Management"… it will be impractical to design and operate an airplane with zero accidents/incidents. So Airframers and Operators follow processes approved by the Authorities to define and execute reaction times for different issues.. by the way ACs are mandatory.. if the time is exceeded, that specific airplane will have to be grounded. I saw that you have an interest on Aviation.. hope this helps and completes your view on this issue… cheers

  23. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Some One says:

    Intel was doing the same in an industry where cutting costs on engineering does have an even more immediate impact. AMD would be dead by now if they wouldn't have pushed what was basically the same performance with small improvements on efficiency for a decade. Their foundries have become an international embarrassment. Don't know if they will ever be able to catch back up at this point in time.

  24. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen says:

    Realistically, do you think the US government will allow Boeing to go bankrupt?
    Worst case scenario it will be broken into multiple companies, and the shares will stay in the market.

  25. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Hung Ly says:

    I think it would be fair to compare the percentage of parts outsourced for equivalent planes from Airbus and Boeing before we criticize Boeing too much for it.

  26. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars bombom becker says:

    Boeing killed my family in etheopia. Hope they crash and burn

  27. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Travel MOW says:

    Anytime a an engineering company puts 'shareholder value' as it's focus, this is the result, the 777x is another I am not getting on.

  28. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars alberto f. Neumann says:

    Is your opinion based upon airplane engineering degree or at least are you a pilot? Opinions like this from regular joes are the reason why Covid is still spreading with vaccines available: clowns with no certificatios make public their "opinions" and some other ignorants follow, because what sounds simple to understand biasly also sounds right. And buy the way…. bought more shares today!! He he he

  29. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars alberto f. Neumann says:

    Want to ask this genius one question: If you make pancakes for business and every person that gets sick for your pancakes makes you liable for billions, would it make sense to make ameba pancakes? Why do people listen to this clown?

  30. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Dany Chang says:

    CNBC looks so sad ,another fall down of American old megafactory

  31. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Rickshaw says:

    Mission critical software and firmware should rarely if ever be outsourced to contractors. It’s hard enough managing time zones, let alone ensuring high standards.

  32. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Steve Giboney says:

    Tom Nash, Boeing has subcontracted parts since their inception, you didn’t really think that they machined every part for their aircraft in house? You don’t know as much as you think you do.

  33. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Aya B says:

    Well… That's why they are partnering with our favorite peeps from Palantir! 😃

  34. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Phillip Lopez says:

    The explanation is simple . They moved the assembly to the southern united states . Enough said .

  35. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Emily Allan says:

    Boeing must hire engineers back and get rid of the non engineer execs. The company is being run into the ground, and all the public has to decide is to overthrow the execs and replace them. People should be arming the machinists union to the gills. It is a PUBLICLY OWNED company. Make them pay by bringing back the engineering. Its not just about the jobs. Its about national security.

  36. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Sed Money says:

    I worked in Boeing for many years and hate to say I told them so.
    1) I thing Douglas merge was a mistake it’s bad, greedy, numbers focused management culture speeds everywhere.
    2) I work a few years on weekends my free time to finalize work which was accepted/forced by management as completed, but I thought it’s not, we are risking a lot of people after all. And was constantly blamed by management for wasting my time on unnecessary improvements. Of course I left as soon as it was not possible for me to work on weekends and overnight because of family.
    3) Overall qualification of engineers was extremely low, especially after they move a lot of production out from Seattle to cut even more costs.
    Ehh.. I’m sad, but it seems this is how cleanup works on business landscape. Big, old greedy companies have to die to open space for new competition.

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