Hey welcome back to the podcast uh have, i said, thank you recently for taking the time to listen to my podcast to push us into the top 100 on itunes. It means the world to me. I have a request if you're listening to this and you haven't subscribed. This will be, i think, maybe the second time.

I've actually said to somebody on my podcast. Will you please subscribe? I don't care where you listen, itunes, wherever it's all good by me. I'm just really just grateful that you're willing to do it, so hey today is going to be a really cool show. I i've been kind of nerding out on this person for a while.

It is something that has always been in my heart. It's always something that i have always understood that if you, if you really thoughtfully, think about the people, you love you respect or the people you want to do business with there is this strategy that you could send them something thoughtful, send them something meaningful and, as I say that i know you might be saying: oh, is this like just another law of reciprocity place or a you know, i'm giving to receiving you know? Maybe maybe you could interpret it that way the times in my life, when i look back and, for example, got the relationship with the ceo of cola banker. We were tweeting back and forth. We were talking about music.

I had asked him what his top five or six records were. I quickly went out to one of my artist buddies and said: could you take these nine albums put them into a giant frame and i want to ship it to him and i just shipped it to him as a complete random thought and of course you know, Two days later, my phone's ringing fairy: this is the single greatest gift anyone's ever. Given me, i have 5 000 records. I have each one of those records, but i never thought about actually putting it into a box and a frame like this.

Thank you. So much budge husky at the time ceo now, ceo of another company down in florida, my intent wasn't like. How can i get budge as a client? My intent was. We both have appreciation for music.

We were tweeting about it and i thought you know. That's just a cool thing to do like and i got a friend who does that work so voila now. All of that is just a lead up to the extraordinary john rouland, who is the world's leading authority. Listen to this, my friends on maximizing customer loyalty holy maximizing customer loyalty.

I am in right through radical generosity, he's been featured in forbes fast company new york times he's been blowing up all over the place. I have listened to his audio book three times now and i'm just super excited that he's joining us. So john welcome to the podcast. Oh man, that man i'm floating you got me.

You know that story. Uh is wow, you're, a giftologist man. What can i say, like i mean we could just drop the mic right there and be, like you know, go take action well we're gon na dig deep, but before i do this is the first time i've ever said to one of my clients who really gets This, who also has read the book multiple times and really built part of her her entire marketing campaign, john around this uh glenda baker, who was on a podcast with us a couple weeks ago, which many of you saw we're talking about listing strategies. So, what's up gb welcome to another podcast.

Thank you so much tom i am so excited to be here. I literally am just i'm like fangirling all over the place with both of you. I love it. I love it.

So so look, i know all the listeners out there, john, whether they've read your book. If you haven't read the book, get the audio, i listen to it like 1.75 speed and i just listen to it over and over and over and over and every time i do. I pull away new nuggets and truthfully john, i also say to myself: omg i'm doing some stuff wrong with my gifting strategy. Right, like the the conversation around uh, you know hey if you send alcohol as a gift, there's a pretty good chance, like some people don't drink.

I was like rut ro. I made that mistake, but i'm getting ahead of myself, john for the people that have never listened to. You haven't seen you on a podcast or a youtube video or maybe at a live performance. Um.

Could you back up - and maybe just explain like give us your back story? Who are you and then let's talk about cutco, because i know that was a big part of you know where you cut your chops and teeth on uh on your entrepreneurial ship, but give us your background like who? Are you where you from? What's the story? Yeah yeah, so the short version is i'm an ohio farm boy. I grew up milking goats, one of six kids on 47 acres about on a town of 417 people. My mom is one of 13 kids. I got 67 first cousins, so i grew up lower middle income like i was definitely not the kid with the uh, the british knights, if you remember those or the jordans, i was the kid with like the spauldings or like the miters.

So i grew up. You know basically wanting to go achieve something because i you know when you grow up with nothing, you want to go out and do something, and so my mom was into health and wellness. I thought i'd go be a doctor or a chiropractor because she was into like the holistic thing 40 years ago before it was cool and hip and whole foods right um. So i went to go to uh to undergrad and my life changed because of a mentor.

One of my i was dating a girl, her dad was an attorney and he was a rainmaker and uh when you're poor. You notice when people are generous - and i was like paul - would do like these crazy things like he'd, find a deal on noodles and everybody at church. The next sunday would walk away with like 20 cases, and i'm like i get your supplies, i'm like paul. That was like 40 g's.

Are you nuts, and it wasn't tactical for him. It wasn't like i'm gon na do this. Now i better get referrals or i better get deals, it's just who he was at a heart level right and because of that, like he owned the real estate. That became the walmart.

He owned all these things and because he was just this kind-hearted, generous person and so uh to pay for med squad of desperation. I went and sold cutco the knife company and my mom literally said john i've owned cutco for 40 years. It's awesome, but none of our friends can afford this you're never going to not even sell one set yeah and i'm like mom. That's not the pep talk.

I'm looking for here, like thanks coach, put me in yeah yeah exactly, but i pitched paul because i you know he he liked nice things and i thought maybe he'll have mercy on me. He buys a set for his three unmarried daughters and himself, and he comes to me and says john. This is this like classic paul he's like. I want to help.

You hit your goals, but i don't know what else i can buy from you. So i come back at him a week later, i'm pitching him for the second time in a week. You know these knives, that's a weird conversation. You're pitching your girlfriend's dad knives once really weird twice is like beyond awkward, so i'm sweating and he changed my life forever because i said paul, all your clients are men they're into hunting fishing outdoors they're like ceos of companies and uh.

Would you consider buying these hundred dollar pocket knives and uh? He got this little twinkle in his eyes, probably 60. At the time he's like john. I don't want to buy a pocket now this guy were repairing knives. It was 20 years ago and uh, i'm like you, want to buy a bunch of dudes like ceos of bill million and billion dollar companies like a kitchen tool.

That's weird! Why and he changed my life forever. He said john, the reason i have more referrals access deal flow. Everything is because i take care of the family first and everything else seems to take care of itself. So for me, it's this lightning bolt moment right and i i realized it really wasn't about the knife, the stupid knife.

To this day, we still do millions of dollars in cutco, but the knife is a delivery vehicle for an emotion and paul understood. It wasn't about reciprocity, it was about showing up for people, and so i started to learn from paul these. What i now call giftology, but it all started from this country attorney literally you know 20 years ago, and so by the time i was a senior in college, we were the number one out of about 2 million reps cutco's worked with. We became their number one distributor in the history of the company by applying what i now call githology.

I love it man, so so succinct, but also so many nuggets, so so glenda. What do you think of when you hear this? I mean you know you and i both i you maybe did the book. I did the audio. What are you thinking right now, so i think that john really exemplifies kind of my philosophy, and that is to gift to impact not to impress yeah, and i think that that's really where the key.

I think that that when you're gifting to someone and like he talks about you, know making the family reaching out to the family reaching people emotionally people do business with people they're familiar with with people. They know like and trust, and i think that when you give to impact that it builds that rapport it moves, you from service provider into relationship and in relationship is where conversion happens. I agree i agree. John.

Does that sound like what you're talking about yeah? I mean at the end of the day, like i sell, we own a gifting agency and wrote a book called giftology, and i i tell people my opening volley when i'm on stage is nobody cares about gifts. Nobody nobody wakes up at 4, am to do their miracle morning, like man. If i just had a gifting strategy, my business would 100x right, but we'd all say whether you're a solopreneur, whether you're an author speaker, trainer, widget manufacturer real estate, everything rises and falls on relationships. Yes, relationship with your clients, your suppliers, relationships with your spouse, your kids, your mentors, your advisors, your investors, even like i remember we spoke at google and somebody raised their hand.

Like john, does this work in technology - and i laughed i was like: are there human beings here? Yes, and they laughed kind of nervously, said yeah like 60 000 of them like then it works, god's wired, us a certain way and we get so like. Oh, i got to do the right widget, the right gift, the right, it's not about the stupid promotional products like that's, not a gift! No, but when you show up for somebody whether that's tangibly, whether that's with a handwritten note, whether that's with the video, whether that's a referral like those are all love like one of my mentors, is gary chapman from the five love languages. Yes and people are like what, if their love language, isn't gifts, i'm like we all want love now, if you can take and combine a bunch of them and that's what i've been talking to gary about is writing the book, the five love languages for business, because I feel like, if you give somebody a gift: that's the delivery vehicle, that's a tangible, but what, if you hand, wrote the note and then you hand delivered it in person and that, like there's ways that you can multiply the impact and because people's expectations and business Are so low because everybody does swag and trinkets and tchotchkes and gift cards and stupid stuff and then wonders why they don't get referrals they're doing transactional things versus pouring into the relationship just because so when you say relationship and impact versus like impressing people like glenda, You get it like you're living it like, but very so many people say john. I did giftology and it didn't work and i'm like did you follow the recipe and they're like well? Maybe i did gift algae-ish and i'm like imagine, you're baking bread.

You can bake it a hundred thousand times, but if you don't put yeast in, i don't care how many times you do it. It's not gon na work, you're, not gon na get bread, and so people cut corners and they do things the wrong way and then they wonder why it doesn't work like there's a set psychology to this. This isn't just random ad hoc stuff. So so do us a favor and just you know i had uh near l on my uh, my podcast, i don't know i think, right before the pandemic or write it right as his uh indistractible book was coming out and i literally just said to him near: Do me a favor, i mean he's a pal mike you're, brilliant.

Just do your speech right now and he, like literally, did like 30 minutes of the entire book. I'm not asking you to do that. But what is the strategy give us give us the like, if someone's, never read the book and they're, not in a position to buy a book who knows but they're listening to this, it's free on itunes and they're. Like okay, tell me: what is the strategy? What are the tactics talk to us yeah so before you buy the book, go download our entire playbook our blueprint, our strategy on building a relationship plan giftology system is free and it wa.

It's like what we took 20 years to develop. It's like a color by numbers. It's like step, one most people step. One is what gift do i want to give they focus on the what that's the seventh step? Yeah, i don't care what you're giving if you don't understand the who the who is more important than the what like so so, understanding who your key relationships are and what do they care about? Well, most of them care about the inner circle.

What's the inner circle? What's the people around them that they love could be their assistant could be their spouse could be their kids their pets, their team. Most people like we just got on vaynerchuck's, show to be interviewed. Guess who i didn't gift? I didn't gift gary. I didn't take care of gary gary gets stuff.

All the time he's got a whole shelf. You know four football fields wide of all the crap that people send him. It's cool you want to get on gary's radar. Who do you take care of you? Take care of the people around him, his team, his marketing teams, other people, gary didn't invite me on his team, invited me on right, so so many people and it took six years by the way i never asked to be on the show.

Most people don't understand the idea of playing the long game. When i, when i lay out a relationship plan people like john, you know how long till i get results, so i'm like, if you don't commit to three years of doing this, don't come on board githology. Don't hire our agency or don't even go. Do it because the worst thing you can do like people say they played the long game, but they played in days not decades yeah.

If you're gon na play this game, it's a decades game and that's what i saw on paul my original mentor - i was like he's. 60 he's been doing this for 40 years. The reason he gets some referrals or something that he did 21 years ago and i saw it because he he just consistently showed up for people. So when i was 20, i'm now 40., i turned 40 last year during the pandemic was supposed to be in.

You know doing march madness in vegas with buddies, relaxing watching and that that kind of got blown to smithereens, but i was like i got 40 years to get there. I'm gon na i'm gon na make deposits relational deposits with people and so understanding the who understanding that it's a long game like in and part of that long game is timing matters. I tell people all the time. Like most people do gifts at transactional times.

You give me a referral. Here's your bottle of wine, you say you're in the relationship business, but the only times you give gifts are unexpected obligatory times you get a deal done, the closing gift. Those are it's like it's like only taking care of your spouse, your wife like, if i only show up for my wife on valentine's day birthday and christmas, i don't earn brownie points. Those are table stakes right and, if you do a closing gift as a realtor as a mortgage broker, that's cool, but you want to really blow somebody away start sending like one of the builders that we've worked with for 16 years.

They do this fun bask or whatever else we don't even do it for them. They do it on their own. They build custom homes. We send them a like a 800 knife set on month, six.

Why? Because they think they got the transaction done. They moved in or whatever else and all of a sudden, this love bomb shows up six months later or 12 months later. They're, like i thought the builder forgot about me and they're still loving on me, so people think like oh, like i have to do this to get a referral. No, like you need to consistently show up for people in month, 12 and then year, three in the year five and year, ten, because there's compounding interest where somebody sees you showing up over and over again and vaynerchuk, talked about it with his book.

Jab jab jab right hook, really that's give give give give some more and then you earn the right to maybe ask most people give then ask, and so when they're following this playbook of like who and timing and and how did you know like what amount should You be reinvesting, like that's another thing like most people, think john you're, just like woo-woo like you just spend money on gifts, i'm like no, i'm reinvesting a percentage of net profit. Everything we do in business should have metrics, but when you're playing the long game, i'm i'm saying you should be reinvesting 5 to 15 percent of net profits back into people to keep them to grow them and eventually, over time you inspire them. You don't bribe them. You inspire them to go, be your sales force.

I one of my clients, i my opening story in the book is cameron harold. The seven thousand dollar brooks brothers story yeah, so we do seven thousand dollars brooks brothers. It's like i i you know like. I found out he loved brooks brothers.

We bought the whole store and put it in his room in ritz carlton. Most people would stop there and then ask for the referral. I didn't ask for anything other than his time. I wanted him to mentor me and so for the next 10 years i continued to send him.

I sent him every knife cut. Co made. I probably sent 15 000 worth of knives leather goods, wine tools, you name it. I ran out of things to give them and people like john why'd, you do that.

Why would you spend 25 grand on one person over and over again like? Why didn't you stop there and i said well if i wanted to get cameron as a sales rep for me, if i offered him 2 million a year, he wouldn't take the job. I invest 25 grand over a decade in every client that he has. He sends my way not because he's being paid to, but because i loved on him no strings attached and over time he realized. I want to be in this guy's corner.

I, like john. I trust john. I want john to win and that's where people don't understand. This is not a give to get.

This is a go and love on people, and you know based upon your faith-based ban or whatever else. We know that if we do that the way the world's wired, it will come back to us in different ways, whether that's because of faith or because of just how the world's wired, but it might take a decade, and it might not even be that person. It might be their brother, and so we we get too tied up and do it better show up on my balance sheet within three months and they ruin it. So when we say commit to three years, that's a minimum most people, they follow the shiny object.

They do the thing and then they're on to the next thing, and they don't realize that really what they communicated was. I was just doing a tactic i'm going to show up as as daddy warbucks, and then i'm going to go back six months later to be in ebenezer scrooge. It doesn't work, it doesn't work, it actually you're spending money to harm your relationships. When you do it that way, so i want to, i want to interject, i almost like for all my friends out there listening i've been on youtube since 2007, giving everything i do away for free and never asking people to sign up for an event hire us As a coach, it's so when you're saying this, there's a lot of different ways that you can give my friends you can give in your wisdom, you can give in your mentorship.

You can give in helping their kids get into college right. Like writing a letter to your you know your alum like there's, i don't want you to just think monetarily right is that john, i mean glenda. Actually, i'm gon na go to glendale glenda like what are you? What are you thinking right now, i'm just what what's? What's on your mind, you're sitting here with like the king of giftology, what are you thinking about so well? John talks, a lot about a lot about, surprise and delight and planned random yeah. He also talks a lot about knowing the person that you're gifting and i think that i think that those are three things that that people don't think about.

I think they think that oh i'm going to give this i'm going to get that and they look at it as an expense, not an investment, and i think that you miss the vote when you gift what you like, not what they like. I think that you miss the boat when it is quick pro quo, like i'm going to give it to you, you're, going to give it back to me um, but i think that the most important thing is moving from, especially in real estate. Moving from being a service provider to end relationship and for me, that's my whole goal, and i think that you do that in life events. And i think that that's during the times that you have the opportunity to complement, congratulate or console someone and showing up for them, then is what moves you into that relationship with them, and i think the gifting within a relationship automatically is that moves you from the Days to decades i mean it's just and you love it and you enjoy it and you don't feel like you're having to do it and they don't feel an obligation to give something back.

They do it naturally and move from a passive referral to a passionate referral. John, it sounds like she's read your book. What do you think, but this is this - is her love language? This is how she operates. Like a you know, a giftology bureau of people to go out, and i mean you're already, like evangelizing you're, advocating you're doing it.

Everything you're talking about is, i mean the surprise in the light matters, people think. Well, it doesn't matter like i'm just going to give gifts at you know like these times birthday christmas. Whatever else like, we all like, i don't care if you're a billionaire like i've, seen billionaires cry of receiving the right gift and it's not because they can't afford it. It's because we all like most surprises in life aren't good ones it's like, but when somebody takes the time to think of you and not just like people like john well, i sent the birthday card.

It's a thought that counts. I'm, like that's a bs. That's an excuse to give a laying gift or lame whatever like it's, the thoughtful thought like we can tell when somebody has thought about us and and what we need or like or our kids or our pets, or whatever also the personalization and the surprise element. When you mix all of that together, like you're right, it takes it from just being this like passive thing to where somebody we can all tell when somebody.

If you hey who's your realtor, that's a different thing too. I need to go. I want this person to win, i'm gon na go, find and bring up conversations, sometimes even awkwardly and go send business and tim ferriss has talked about this. Like the difference of like having a hundred true fans, a hundred raving fans is more powerful than a million followers.

You know on instagram. Why? Because you have a hundred people that are going out there and, like i call it active loyalty like passive loyalty, is where people sit on their hands as an employer as a client, they're kind of just along for the ride. Somebody asked them something: yeah they'll refer business. You get somebody who's, an actively loyal relationship.

It's like what you do for your kids: you're, actively loyal for your kids you'll run through walls to make sure they get into the school that they need to that they get under the team, you're actively loyal for your family and when you can get that, i Mean that's. You know you talked about like you know that i brought up the cameron thing i didn't get into the math equation. 25 grand has produced seven figures. The return on relationship is 50x people say well john.

I do facebook ads. I get a 2 or 3x return. I'm like that's cool. That's awesome.

Show me where you can get a 50x return on relationship. You can't there's no other marketing thing on the planet. That's that's better than inspiring your warm relationships to go, be actively loyal to be passionately referring your business they're, just not because human beings, the word of mouth, even in 2021. We still trust people, if anything because of all the digital noise, the centers of influence and people out there that are sending you know, opportunities are even more like people like, oh referrals, are going away because of digital.

Whatever else, i'm, like that's hilarious, like we're, we're so overwhelmed with so much stuff, even more so now we're reaching out to people wanting and realizing like like the human to human connection, especially during, like we realized in 2020, with how like people are craving that intimacy. In that relationship, because we missed it, we realized we took it for granted, and so i think, even more so in 2021 and beyond, like the the human to human, like connection is, is so powerful and and we've we've forgotten that and and most people don't have A strategy there's no mba course at mit teaching you how to do this, and so most people are sheep and they look around say. Well, they do they do starbucks gift cards. I guess that's a good idea and we just follow and we don't realize, like i had somebody who's, a big financial guy reach out text me he's like dude, we got ta, we refer business to this realtor and my boss who's the referral person.

He got a a ten dollar gift card to the coffee shop that he actually owns. That was his thank you gift for sending a million dollar referral. Yeah like are you i mean it's. They spent money to annoy and piss off one of their most valuable relationships.

I mean that's just a horrible investment yeah yeah, so so i want to talk about mistakes to avoid, but i want to share just a something something that i have done, that i found to be super effective is if everybody right now listening grab your phone go On instagram, look at all the photos that you have that you love the memories, and i started doing this like four or five years ago, where i would just. I would go to someone that i that i love. I appreciate like what do you get for the person that you know that has everything right like that, that typical scenario, you know what you do, i would just go to their instagram page, find the photo of them with their daughter, then, with their grandson, walking on The beach this magical photo that had like no hearts and no likes, because nobody else had context for it and go to mixtiles and turn it into like an 8x8 and just send it to him like this photo totally moved me and, like literally i i can't. I can't say the name of the guy.

I did it too recently. He was, he literally called me and just said dude. You have no idea he's like i get all the time just sent to me. He's like that was so rad just it like gift.

Oh, it was like uh, not gift i'll. Do it mix mix tiles? I think it was right and then the other one is i've. Gotten the same thing see there. You go right, so glenn is doing the same thing.

So so i want everybody just to listen. Like you got to think out of the box who, who is that key relationship playing the long game you already answered? One of my questions 5 to 15 is that the budget, because i wanted to yeah, we go higher than 15, but you know most people. Five percent are, like you know, out of every dollar you get, you have to keep 95, you reinvest five. The fun thing is that that's not just it's not an expense.

If you do it well, it should be paying for itself. 5X. 10X. 15..

Over time, yeah um, sometimes 100x, but but uh, but yeah 10 is kind of middle road 15 on the high end. But i see a lot of professional service firms are like really like. I made a million dollars last year. That means i need to invest 100 to 150 000.

I'm, like you, get to keep 850 grand the people you're, giving it out to are basically buying their own gifts. But but if you do it the right way like next year, you should make 1.3 and then the following year should make 1.5 like it starts to compound. So most people - don't they don't understand basic math like if you do invest in the right way, it should pay for itself and then some yeah and again we're not we're not talking about your gross we're talking about your net profit net. I don't care people get big numbers all the time.

Who cares what i don't care about anybody's? I bootstrapped the business for 20 years, so i understand like cash flow and profitability in a p l statement, most people are like well, i did you know 20 billion dollars in origination great. What was your net? I don't care the big number, it's cool. It feeds our ego. I like big numbers too yeah.

Would you profit take a percentage of that reinvest it back in and watch it and watch what happens over the next. You know three to five years. I love it all right. Let's talk about mistakes, to avoid! Well, what i would say is that almost most people's playbook across the board is is like when i list off like the 10 worst gifts to avoid giving you know like alcohol and food is on there yeah um, and it's not that every rule that i'm gon Na listen hold on hold on hold on john hold on see.

This is why i'm doing this uh, i i'm the co-owner of a bourbon company, a tequila company in a wine company with one of my buddies who's like a legend and just you know stoked to be a part of it. I sent uh everyone in my new building where i live in dallas. Everyone got a bottle from us during the holidays of our bourbon and here's the best part it showed up beautifully, packaged beautifully designed and the company that sent it didn't include the note that just said hey from tom and kathy ferry just want to wish. You have a happy holiday blah blah blah blah blah.

So not only did we send everybody alcohol and there could be some people that don't drink oops. We also didn't get a note inside there, so i'm still getting texts from people like and here's the best part. One of the guys is the he's, the s, not the ceo, but like the one of the chief executive officer, blah blah something of the company that is our distribution he's like yeah. I already have one of these.

Oh, my gosh epic fail yeah. Well, i mean you spent well, i don't know if maybe you had a partnership and got it for free, but at the end of the day we don't want to like when you give something to somebody. You want there to be a net like positive. You want there to be a ripple effect, even if it's just emotional, like wow tom, was thinking of me yeah.

So, like you know, if i was tweaking that i would say instead of waiting to the holidays, when everybody's eating and drinking themselves to death, like we don't allow clients to send gifts between thanksgiving and christmas, why, like i'm a gifting agency like you'd, think like that's When we make our money, but as an entrepreneur, i want my client to invest a dollar and get 20 back over the next five years. Yeah. That only happens if it shows up, and it's the only thing that shows up that week or that month. That's positive, not if it's one of 70 things sitting on the conference table ready to collapse from all the peanut brittle and brownies and bourbon.

I love this point in your book. I loved it. It's such a simple thing. So what would you do yeah? So what i would say is one pair the alcohol number one know that you're, if you're sending alcohol to somebody that they're not in alcoholics, anonymous or their kids, not in rehab or any number of those things.

So you need to know the people well enough or avoid alcohol two. You know you get this bottle of papi or the bottle of patron or the bottle whatever. Let's just say, it's their favorite drink. Now they drink it and it's gone so as a marketer.

I'm always measuring cost per impression, like the billboard that facebook ad the, if you send something to somebody that they the reason that the dives still work, if you use them the right way, the cupcake knives is, if somebody uses something once a day for the next 10 years, that's 3 600 impressions. Now, where people ruin it, is they slam their logo on the front of it they're dealing now if, if you're a entry-level, realtor selling 200 000 homes, that's fine, like most people in that realm, you know if you're part of the the 90 that are out there, Like just getting started, maybe you can't customize everything and do everything at what i would call like a level. You know a 3.0 level like sending out cutco knives are branded like fine, but if you're dealing with seven figure earners and you're putting your name or your logo on something, you would never do that you'd never go to somebody's wedding and on the beautiful tiffany's. Compliments of tom ferry that'd be like that'd, be the cheesiest thing in the world, but in business we do it and we call it marketing.

We call it like brand building. If you have a real like relationship with somebody, you make the gift all about them. So, even if i'm sending out ten thousand knife sets you'll never see, ruling or giftology on any of them like we did it for tony robbins recently for a client and uh pete vargas. Do you know pete or not, but yeah um, so pete strikes a partnership.

Wants to do something with with tony, i said i said: pete we're going to do knives he's like really want to send tony robbins knives. I'm like nah check this out. We're going to take this five thousand dollar knife set and we're gon na go scrape over the last 40 years. The best words of wisdom that tony's ever spoken into existence and all 80 surfaces are going to have carved into it.

The words of wisdom that are most meaningful and then we're going to put inside a 2500 wood box that has a video screen built into it and when he opens this, it's called a strong chest opens it up him and sage. You're gon na pour out your heart and say what his life has meant: his words of wisdom in life. They sent it off four months later sage called gushing, then pete we've received a lot of things. This is like an instant heirloom like we're gon na pass.

This down to our kids or grandkids, someday based upon not the knives they could go, buy our own knives. It was about what was engraved now. This is a legacy play so so many times people are like well, john, i did the the widget i gave the the bourbon or i gave the whatever it didn't work. I'm like did you personalize it to the person so that it lands a certain way with them? Did you put your logo on oh yeah, we put it small.

I'm like you turned an opportunity to deepen a relationship into manipulation, trying to turn them into a billboard. Yeah, if you give a nice enough gift, let's say you're the bourbon. The other thing i would do if you are gon na, do something. That's consumable is pair it with something: that's tangible, that's personalized to the family.

So if we do a a bottle of opus, one i'm like i'm pairing it with like a 700 wine tool that has their autograph or their family or their their mission statement of the family carved into this piece. So every time they're opening all their competitors. Bottles of wine they're thinking most deeply about the person who gave them this crazy. You know wine key that they didn't even know existed that now as an artifact of their relationship.

Now, isn't it is an heirloom that they're like wow like subconsciously they're thinking about it. So, for you i'd say you always have to have a handwritten note. Any gift that goes out one-to-one human to human is not automated it. Even if you're help getting help it has to have the handwritten note.

It needs to show up as a just because or at a time they're unexpected and it needs to have something: that's tangible, that's anchoring after the food or the whatever is consumed that five years from now they're still thinking about you as they're, you know drinking out Of these custom, over-the-top whiskey, glasses, yeah they're that so you could take what you did tweak it a little bit. Uh, maybe filter out some of the people. You don't know that! Well, so you don't know if they're an alcoholic and and still leverage the awesome, whiskey or whatever else and had it land a hundred times differently with maybe not that much more money, so so feedback on that yeah. First of all, uh.

I am just feeling like a complete knucklehead, but you know it's all things podcast right, so we share. You know like we're, nobody's perfect my whole thing, but just for the record, like john my strategy was we bought this place in october of 2019. We didn't move in until october november and i thought to myself all right. We don't know anybody in this building, except for one couple.

So what if i just sent this out as a gift and and just more so just one like the note - was like hey we're new to the building hope the construction didn't create any problems for you. Hopefully i'll see you down in the dog park like that. Was the note it was like you know just that opportunity to be able to say: oh yeah, i'm that guy hey nice to meet you yeah, we're new in town like what's going on like that's all i was thinking and it totally i mean. I don't think it failed, but hearing you.

I actually think it now failed. No, no! It didn't fail here. So so there's there's levels of the impact yeah. So like there's some people that got it that connect the dots are like wow, that's cool! That tom was thinking of us, you didn't have to do that, like there's, no expectation of you doing something, so i wouldn't say it's.

I would i you know like there's some times where we do something and it is a failure, but if it provides an opportunity to laugh or have a conversation or whatever else, then was it really failure, probably not, but what's what what i challenge people to think Is like, as they're looking at any part of their business marketing relationship building like i i like to say like what more can i do, or how can i make this even better? How can i make the impact even greater? How can i, how can i have a ripple effect? That's even you know more vast, and so i think i think people are hard on themselves and i think it's really one of the reasons that people don't take the time to start doing this. You you were mentioned before we started. Recording that, like you know my wife hates buying me a gift because she like she's, like you're, impossible to buy a gift for, and i'm like, i'm not impossible. I'm just looking at things always through the lens of like.

Could this have been better and there's some times where no like people like do things for me, like one of the one there's an artist that we now work with, who made a mug, a thousand dollar mug for me and one for my wife and hand delivered It drove nine hours and made both my wife and i cry, and the reason there are a thousand bucks is car. They're called an artifact mug carved into this piece is my whole legacy. Life story. Family faith, uh tragedies overcome it's like my.

It's like a functional piece of art that reminds me of what matters right, and so, when somebody does something like that, i'm like brad, i don't. I don't know that you can do anything any better than this like i've. Now gifted these to friends and family and clients, and all my employees and even billionaires cry when they receive this thing, and it's not about spending more money, because i've received more expensive gifts that didn't land brad did something for me that was so like in tune And heartfelt and like just landed, so i would say: there's always ways to take things and make things better, and even i'm always trying to be a student and learn from the way people give me or the way i see other people loving on their relationships to Be like that was really awesome, like i'm, adding that to giftology like i've been doing that for 20 years, yeah glenda, i ate it on booze. He also said food, food and booze.

Okay. What are you thinking girl power? So you know john um. You know, i think, that you have a great point. I think that the client intake form for us is really critical understanding, because i do not drink under if it's wine or beer or sparkling cider.

I think that's very important. My philosophy on food is a little bit different than yours, just because your mother always says don't take food from a stranger. I think that, anytime, that you gift food and someone accepts it - you move from being a stranger into being in relationship with them. I think that if you give them food that tastes good, that they associate you with that taste good, my name is also glenda baker.

So i on baked goods um. I did over ten thousand cupcakes last year holy moly. You don't need to start companies, you need to start a cupcake company with with glenda. I know your name is that volume i did um 50 000 on brownies.

I did almost 60 000 in cupcakes, so um. I do a lot of food gifting. So i'm gon na just reserve the right. I know that you are the expert, but it works with my brand and i hope that you will give me a little latitude.

How about that? Was that packaged? Well enough tom? I love it. I love it. No! It's perfect, so can i speak to that why it works? Yes, so if you know the people well enough, you know you probably know them if they're on keto or if they're kids, you know celiac or if you're, if they're, avoiding sugar for the month of january, because they're on some sort of cleanse. So every rule that i have even alcohol, like i told you like there's ways to do alcohol.

If you know the person well enough, and then you pair it with something and the handwritten note and the timing, so every rule like i, i i actually sent out um to a bunch of our clients. We partnered with a company that does healthy candy and we sent it off to like 250 people that had kids that i know like it's struggle when you have kids to find something that they'll eat. That's healthy that doesn't have a bunch of artificial crap and preservatives and we didn't send like one bag. We sent like a case and said hey from one family from one dad to another from one.

You know one family to the other handwritten note out of the blue. It was a huge hit, so i even break my own rules, but it's like anything else. When you get intentional with why you're doing it - and you understand the people that you're giving it to and it's a part of an overall campaign where you're still doing like the jamie foxx behind the scenes, like most people, want to check the box at christmas and Do their peanut brittle to everybody and not put any thought into it or the brownies or whatever else, you're being very intentional and strategic with it as a part of an overall relationship plan? That's why it's so like anything, can be made right if you're willing to put the thought and energy and effort into it and invest the right way. I mean how many people you said 50 and 60 grand that's 110, 000.

Just in those two things, i don't think most, i don't think even the top one tenth of a percent of realtors are investing that much in their entire relationship building program and you're doing it just on two different baked goods like that is mind-blowing. That is wonderful. I will, when we hang out i'll, give you a high five, because you're actually you're investing at the level that we're talking about and being as intentional as we're talking about and because of that, you're being rewarded at a high level. So i'm not going to i'm not going to tear down the brownies or the cupcakes keep doing what you're doing, because it's awesome, yeah thoughtful thoughts be thoughtful when you're thinking about people - and i think that that's what's really critical because you're exactly right.

If we have somebody who's on keto or we know somebody who's like working a healthy lifestyle, i always tease them and say you know. I wanted to send you broccoli, but it just doesn't package as well, and so really we acknowledge that. But everything that we do is with a handwritten note and - and it's not about me again - it's about their lifestyle, yeah wow, yeah, it's uh, it's powerful, i'm so glad glenda that you decided to come on and tom for this is this is spectacular. It's so cool! I knew there would be, and i'd love i mean you know so glenda you have made it wonderful.

I still feel like i totally screwed up, but you know what i am a lifetime learner brother. So i that's that's why i've gone through your book so many times, i'm just like! Oh man, i could have done this better that better this better, but that's what hey! If you're listening to this right now, that's what you're all about so so you know, let's go back to the seven steps who you know. Who is the key relationship playing the long game? Timing matters, because a lot of glenn has masterminded a lot of our clients. Have switched away from end of the year to love on this group and then the next month in january, then the next month in february then march and april right glenda.

So i want to talk a little more about that. You said 5 to percent of your net budget is, is sort of the the range that people should expect right playing the long game. What's four through seven yeah i mean a lot of. It is diving into the the levels of personalization the the inner circle.

To me is where most people completely miss out the reason that we love things that go into the kitchen is because breaking bread, like you can't have dinner with everybody all the time, and especially in the pandemic or covet or whatever else like getting time is, is Way more difficult, and so anytime, you can put something into the hub of the house in the kitchen where it's, including the kids or it's, including you, know the spouse, where it's, including the pets or whatever else like that inner circle. For us, when we're segmenting out our budget 80, so, like my my gifting budget last year, was 640 grand for john roland personally, 80 of that is targeted at that inner circle. People are like what do you like i'll ask clients like hey? Do you know that your spouse's name? Do you know the assistant's name like? No? No, no, i i know this guy likes bourbon. I know this guy likes golf.

I'm like that person gets that kind of stuff all the time if they, if it's a common hot button of golf like you, can only use one driver at a time and a lot of these guys, you know, have like three pairs of shoes or sunglasses or Whatever else so like when we're segmenting out where to invest money and actually have impact, doing it, the the way that most people do it, i'm i'm coming at it from a different way, and so the inner circle piece to me. If i was a realtor and like i would be documenting pets, names and and breeds in, you know like ages and birthdays, and even more so than the actual client themselves, because the client like they're, you know the financial advisors and all these guys. They all have that same kind of common database and getting the birthday cards, but the pets aren't or the pets aren't being included in things. So the inner circle to me is one of the critical pieces of what you're doing there and and having the documentation to be able to include it now, there's like different levels of that, like if you're doing you know, like you, know, glassware or the knife set Or whatever else like, you can do things and blanket people most people are going to eat or entertain or food, but if you're going to take it down to another level of like kids and sending healthy, treats or pets and sending things for the pets, like that's Another level and i wouldn't recommend necessarily starting there like start making documentation if you're a realtor or really any you know, relationship builder, but understanding the the inner circle to me is like one of the the the key components and segmenting that out so so i wrote Down personalization and inner circle sort of being in combination of let's just keep be a teacher for a couple more minutes.

What else? What else is on that list of seven? Well, i think most people um when you're dealing with affluent people that can go buy whatever they want. Most people are like hey apples. You know like i want to buy a watch. You know so they decide hey for my team or for my clients, i'm going to buy a watch for everybody and they're like hey.

They, you know like hey, we're our budget's 500. We're gon na go buy these like seiko watches for everybody, and what they don't realize is that all their clients are wearing rolexes or breitlings and in their head they're thinking, i'm being really really like. It's practical, we're not going to put our logo on it, but buying something that's best in class in that category makes all the difference. I would rather receive, as you know, a recipient of a gift and your clients are this way too.

I'd rather receive a 120 luggage tag than a 500 watch. Why? Because i would never go buy a luggage tag for 120 bucks, but if i got one that was handmade with leather and brass, whatever else for my wife and i and my kids to put on our bags, we'd probably use them because it'd be the nicest luggage Tag i've ever seen, whereas the 500 watch as nice as it might be, i'm not taking the rolex off and putting on your watch unless there's some crazy story that goes along with it. That's just so amazing. That's going to inspire me to remove something.

So i think when people are shopping and they're trying to take care of their relationships, they don't realize that going all in and doing something. That's i call it a practical luxury when they're shopping they need to buy, find something in a category that they can go and be like ten percent or a hundred percent, or a thousand percent better than anybody else. It's why the silly knives have worked. Most people have a knife set even in these million dollar homes, it's like the old henkel set.

They got at the wedding for 13 years ago or whatever else you know like the reason the mug works. Most people have you know a six dollar mug from china that they drink out of and you go and send that person who's wearing a 50 000 watch or whatever you louis vuitton luggage and you send them a thousand dollar mug that tells their life story. They'll. Bawl they've never seen anything they've never been treated.

That way, so going best in class to me is a huge thing when you're thinking about impact like that's how you can have less of a budget and impact more is by going into a completely different category. All right, what's the last and then the other thing that i'll say, and this ties back to personalization, but this is like once you kind of determine the item, the personalization, whatever else the note itself is more important than the gift: here's. Why? Like we're all craved for connection we're all created for meaning for intimacy all these different things, and so so many times people are like hey, can't we just like automate it or type it out or have a one-line note, and i'm like when you think about when You get something from somebody and somebody took the time to really pour out their heart into a note, and we get this question a lot when people are dealing with, like you know the military or the department of defense or city government. Like john, we can't we do gifts, but we can't and i'm like the reason we spend nine dollars on our letterhead.

It's a sheet of steel costs, nine bucks and right on it with a sharpie. The reason we invest, that is when somebody gets a handwritten note that somebody really put time energy and thought into you can tell and there's been actually all kinds of studies done where, if you would take that note and go read it to the person in person. They're likely to cry and you're likely to cry why? Because as human beings like gratitude and generosity and pouring out our heart to somebody and being vulnerable, is it really like you know, like brene brown? These other people have talked about and studied in whatever else, but to me like, and i love glenda, that you yeah, even with the brownies or whatever else handwritten note to me. That's what provides the story, the meaning, the context.

You know, that's what lets them know. I wasn't sending you this to get anything i wasn't sending this to, because it was your birthday. I was sending this to you because of the relationship i was thinking of you or the only other time that i'll will recommend for somebody to send a gift. Um.