Can you succeed as a trader without developing a strategy?
Hosts Kim Ann Curtin and Stephen Johnson start a four-part series to address common trading errors.
In this episode, it’s all about approach. Some newbie traders start out trigger-happy. They hope their instincts will be enough to succeed in trading right from the start. Stephen admits he was like that.
Others are gun-shy … They study a lot and still don’t feel like they have enough knowledge. But if they don’t make trades, they can’t build good instincts for the market. Kim feels this way about her own trading habits.
No matter where you fall on this spectrum, tune in to the episode to learn how to break the habit of directionless trading. Start developing a strategy that works for you.
Follow our hosts on social media…
Tim Bohen
Twitter: @tbohen
Instagram: @tbohen
Stephen Johnson
Twitter: @Jonk87
Instagram: @stephenjonk87
Kim Ann Curtin
Twitter: @kimanncurtin
Instagram: @kimanncurtin
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But let's talk about the person who has done their homework, who has spent lots of time studying who does have a level of knowledge where it is time for them to jump in uh? What you know, do you remember when you began was that ever did you ever forget that you were happy okay, 300 on a trade, and i didn't know what i was doing yeah got it got so i probably fit more in the gun. Shy where i feel like no matter how much i know it's not enough, i have to know more aloha everybody welcome back to the steady trade podcast. This is a four-part series that stephen johnson and i are going to do. Uh steven - and i did this almost two years ago - i think stephen - is it two years ago that we did this four part series right.

It's a long time, so we're gon na do four part series for you guys. This will be kind of you know, 20 to 30 minutes. We're gon na speak on four different topics. This first episode is going to be about those traders who find themselves trigger happy or gun shy, and i'm curious what you are the listener to us right now.

Do you consider yourself gun shy or trigger happy stephen johnson, which one are you i'm definitely way too trigger-hobby, um and and a lot of really good traders? A lot of really great traders are trigger happy as well. I mean first of all, it's what what what is it best to be trigger? Happy gun shy somewhere in the middle? I don't think either. One of them is good, uh, i'd, say in certain contexts and situations and and on this journey to profitability. Yeah i'd say it is good to be one and one in the other uh, but first of all uh er er.

Your straightaway reminded me of something that donaire said: donaire is a friend and trader. He was on twist when he passed passed a million. I think he's at 1.6 now and - and they were talking about like with dan irish or saying, are you a bit? Are you a big guy, or are you an ass guy like do you like to hit the bed, or do you like to hit the ask when you when you're going long so when you go along, if you, if your market order, you'll hit the ask and You'll, take it out straight away where you won't sit on the you won't sit on the big guy, you'll you'll slap that ask and - and he said something quite funny - he said he slapped. He slaps the ass because he likes to support uh.

The decision in the trade that he's made he likes to support the trade that he's made by like not just taking the trade, but also hitting the ask now that that was. I hope that makes sense. You know it was i'm not sure. I completely understand it and for the listeners that are new, it might be a little confusing to them.

So let's break that down, because this is really good language that i want to understand and i'm sure other newbies won't understand, yeah, it's it's a bit on the side, but like obviously when you're trading there's a bid and there's an ask on the level too. Now you can, you can place your order on the bid, okay and wait to be filled, which is adding liquidity to the market yeah or you can just slap the ask and just if you hit, if you buy on the asking price you're immediately in the trade, Because you're immediately saying i'll, take the higher price on the level too well, the bid is just sitting waiting for someone to come down to you for that bye, yeah and he said he loves to slap the ass. He loves to hit the ask straight away, even though it's not advantageous because he's getting a worse price, but he likes to support his own trade by taking the ask out for everyone else. Who's yeah who's hitting that long as well, which i thought was quite funny.
But but basically a lot of the top traders that i see coming back to the question, i would say, were trigger happy in a certain in a certain way. I've i've been in uh rooms with the likes of dan, irish and and um bryce toohey and those guys are pulling the trigger those guys are pulling the trigger um in in ways. I've not seen there's a lot of there's a lot of deaths. There's a lot of small deaths, a lot of losses, a lot of small losses, but uh there's a lot of big gains and the the reason is because their strategy is a one percent.

Two percent risk for 10 20. 30, 50 rewards yeah, so they can be trigger happy. They can take 30 losses and the 31st works and they're profitable um. And that's that's, that's that's good, but you shouldn't be.

They know exactly what they're doing right, yeah and yeah exactly what they're doing so, it's fine for them to be trigger happy. They know the risk reward. They know it's a numbers game, they know if they hit enough stocks. That's interesting so you're you're, saying if you're trigger happy with the restraints on, then it can be a profitable uh experience.

Well, they they've just they've, got such good risk and and they're very long buyers so like. If the stock doesn't go when they buy, they cut it. It's like that's not going right now, most of the time unless they've got a set risk on a larger cap stock, if it doesn't go straight away, they're out they're in and they're out the trigger, happy and trigger happy hours, but they know they've seen it a Million times they know the probabilities, they know the risk and it's it's almost for me. It's a numbers game not taking any setup, but if you take 10, 15, 20 25 good average to good setups in a day, yeah fall work.

Five will work, yep big trigger happy, it's good to be tricked out pull the trigger. Do you know what i mean i do i i almost wonder. Is there another phrase we could call it because i think, for the most part at least - and this is my maybe my naive day trigger happy to me - sounds or has felt like somebody - who's just shooting uh, and you know, what's that famous saying about shoot and Dance yeah, it's like you, you aim and then shoot. But when you trigger happy, you just shoot and then you aim, which is too late now yeah all throwing mud at the wall and hoping that some of it sticks exactly to a degree, though, if that, if that's a quality mod, and it's got the perfect amount Of liquidity in the mud and it's the perfect amount of stick yeah and you're throwing, but that doesn't feel like trigger happy that feels like i am specifically casting a big net and even though i'm not gon na get all the fish that i love to eat.
I will get a bigger chance of catching the fish that i want to eat, even though i'll have to throw a lot back. That's all! That's all the likes of dan and bryce are doing they're just catching those fish, yeah they're, going out to say every day, sunny catching the fish yeah all right. So let's talk about the people that are not managing their risk like the two of them. Let's talk about those who are, just you know, pushing the trade button without a plan, the people who are coming from a place of not really having the patience or the risk management or the uh doing the homework to come up with being strategic.

What what would you say to them? Yeah, it's it's like if you're like, really trained with a gun and you're trying to use it. Well, you can be trick. You can pull the trigger all the time right and you're, always gon na have a good shots. If you don't know how to use a gun and you've had no training, you're gon na you're, gon na kill someone and you might even kill yourself and that's that's kind of how it works yeah.

So if, if you're on train in stocks because stocks, a game where you have to think fast, be fast, react fast act fast, be fast, do fast! Think fast. If you don't have the ability to think on that pace or level, and you just pull the trigger you're just making a mess right, um you just you're just gon na. If you pull the trigger with probability on your side, you're gon na make a lot of money like a casino makes money. If you pull the trigger without probability on your side, your compounding losses.

So, in your earlier stages of your career, it's it's recommended to observe more and trade, less yeah um. But let's, let's very small - and just do you know what i mean yeah or to very small. So, let's just talk for a minute about you know: the new trader comes in they're, very excited. They want to be part of the action they want to be they're like i've read, i've read, let's, let's say: they've spent a moderate amount of time studying a moderate amount of time, uh watching these videos.

Listening to tim, sykes courses watching all these steady trade, podcasts and now they're like i want to get out there, what would you say is the ruler or the filter that they need to ask themselves. What are those questions before they pull the trigger before they start to trade, to double check? Is it because you're just impatient and you can't wait to be in the game or is it because you're ready? What are the questions they need to ask themselves? No, it's just um, i mean you have to ask yourself: why are you taking the trade and if you ask 50 percent of the guys out there? Why did you take that they'll? Think they've got a good answer in the head, but if, when when you ask them to articulate that answer as someone who knows what they're doing yes, like a pro trader, they'll not be able to articulate a convincing convention answer. So i would, i would say, um before you pull that trigger. I write down five reasons why, in this trade, and if you can't come up with five, not quote five good reasons, um probably shouldn't be in the trade wow, that's really awesome.
I i almost am thinking it would be great to have a service where you have literally. The only way you get to trade is, if you could answer those five questions and the ai the algorithm says: yeah, these are legit and if it doesn't it doesn't let you go and trade. Wouldn't that be a cool service. I mean yeah, but i mean honestly, but once you know what you're doing like you, just the five reasons are automatically in your head all simultaneously, but for a new trader, it's like why.

Why are you taking this long and they'll not think like high volume, low floor large range on the chart hot sector history of running? Do you know what i mean they'll, not yeah. It introduces a double bottom, quite well. It's consolidating! Well, that's just held that bottom long trend it dipped under the trend, but then it popped back above um you just quickly spitballed five reasons. So what are the other reasons? So, let's just let's revisit those and, let's add more because right now, what we're saying to anybody that's listening is that unless these five of these collection that steven's going to speak to are happening when you're taking a trade, you probably shouldn't be in the trade there Could be hundreds i mean it could be, for example, it's the only runner of the day, so it's getting all of the attention for a long or it's uh, it's trading, the most volume it's ever traded and it's history or it's low, float or it doesn't have Much dilution now this story is particularly catchy or it's breaking out on a multi-month daily chart on in new levels or it's just broke a significant downtrend chart, or it's traded 15 million pre, and it's just a high probability that it's going to squeeze at least once Or consolidating on the intraday or it's in a hot sector or sympathy to another stock in a heart sector um or it's on the intro we've just had a big dip, but that dip got bought immediately up, which means there's someone with money underneath underneath buying these Dips, why why is someone with money buying the dips? There's there's endless reasons of uh? Why why a stocking goal yeah, if you've got five go for it? You've got good risk, rewards, yep yep, so so the person that's trigger happy in my experience is, and the negative version of trigger happy is somebody who is just needing to have that sense of confidence or a sense of belonging, like i'm playing in the game that I you know, i'm studying and doing all this energy to to be a part of, and they and they just want the experience of being in the trade, especially with brand new traders.
What i see is that they're just kind of like they're like a horse at the starting gate, and they just can't wait to run yeah. I know absolutely it's it's like when you learn surfing. You want to go straight to the back of the ocean and join the biggest waves when you should be right at the front surfing that white water yeah, it's very, not it's very natural to want to be the best uh want to join the best yeah want To immediately skip past the beginner stage, because big beginner stages are associated with people who aren't good, might give up yeah, not at the top, not the best yeah. So it's natural for people to to say look, i'm i'm really.

I'm really amped up, i'm really really pumped. I can go straight to the next stage yeah and it's very natural everyone does it in everything yeah for sure but um, but the costs here are just so str so great that these days, it's not so bad. I mean there's a the famous uh, the famous quote, whether it's edison or einstein or who, but it's uh when you, when you fail a thousand times you're, just a thousand thousand steps closer to getting the right idea, yeah or whatever you feel 990 times you just One one step away from the right idea: yeah these days, commission free trading fail away fail away, but yeah, i wouldn't say, fail away but fail three times four times in a day and then look back the next day and be like. Why didn't they work? Do i know, can i ask, can i ask someone yeah, that's a that's a really good point, so, even in the failing find a way to learn from the failures.

What was it about that tree? That's great yeah yeah! I mean look at that. Like i mean, look like i've just stuck at me: third, third, big loss of the year and um and like my dad's like, are you not devastated? I'm like not because i feeling's good feeling is good and and now i know what to do again and now i know i was doing it right then, and uh it's always good to fail, always yeah yeah. You know, i think small costly fails, though. Ideally well.

That's well, that's the question right. How do you? How do you make sure that your risk management is such that you, your failures, are not going to be so costly? Financially that you, you can't. You know, i think part of my concern about people. The people that are trigger happy and trading is that it it damages them on an emotional level.

You know i just i just released a course called trading eq for stocks to trade, and it talks about the emotional side of every trade you take. It's either going to build up your confidence or it's going to build. You know strip it down, and so part of my concern is it's yes, of course, i want people to manage their risk and and let those failures be not too costly, financially, but i'm also seeing the effects when i coach people around what happens to you psychologically When you keep experiencing failure, so that's also part of why i am always. You know cautioning people, if you're too trigger-happy, without being conscious of why you're trait taking a trade, then you potentially have to climb up further emotionally to a place of confidence.
You're not going to trust yourself if you're trigger happy and you're just taking trades left and right willy-nilly, and you need to build that confidence to yourself over time yeah. No, i i mean i i think for me it doesn't matter uh. It doesn't matter how many times you lose as long as you learn from every loss and then there's a there's, a huge confidence boost in. I know not to do that or now.

I know why that didn't work and i think the confidence gained from the lesson and the knowledge gained from the lesson outweighs the the low self-esteem of the loss, because anything that you learn from correct is is a is an achievement. It's a win. The loss becomes a win because you've you've got to lose in the beginning, there's no way around it. You've got to yeah, so exactly every loss you learn from is a win.

So there's no there's absolutely no reason. Every every even a blop is a is a win honestly, even a blow up is a win as long as you learn from it and you can manage it yeah and that's the key. Can you manage it and that's why i think it's so important to just be managing your risk right out of the gate, because, even in the beginning stages for you to be comfortable with loss, it's got to be within reasonable amount that you have emotionally and financially Prepared for so that, when that loss comes, it doesn't devastate your account and it doesn't devastate you emotionally yeah. I mean look for me: that's not the danger.

In the beginning, you're trading, small you're, very you're, very fearful of the market. Every loss hits every every ten dollar loss hits a 200 loss. Destroys you yeah uh, that's not the danger. The the real danger in the market is for me is when you almost you learn how to trade.

You get comfortable, slash, numb with experience and loss, and then you go on an extremely hot run, where you think that you're better than the market and where you think that just bad loss isn't going to happen, and then you take a massive loss. It's happened to me happens to many many traders and that that's the that's the crush and crush and that's the crush in defeat yeah um and that's that's something else for another episode, but but you've just got to remember like the the psychological battle in the beginning. It's just small: it's a small small loss, small lane, yeah growing and on to the next yeah. Let's talk about the the versus gun shy part of this equation, so those who are gone shy in my experience are people that usually they're lacking confidence, perhaps lacking confidence.
Personally, perhaps lacking confidence uh in their edge, perhaps they're lacking confidence in their experience or in their setup uh. Let's just talk a little bit about like what happens when we have the extreme of somebody being trigger happy where they're completely gun shy. Yeah. I know i love that i love it when people ask us this and it's a common question that i get it's um.

I just can't take the trade just can't take it sit there. I look at it, i watch it and i don't hit it and then it goes the right way. Um and my response for years and i've never changed. It is um.

If you are gun shy, there's a reason, there's a reason: you're not pulling the trigger and it's probably a pretty valid one um in a market where 90 percent of traders lose that takes most trade as the average three to four years and the the the the Elite kraken two geniuses cracking one cracker in two, but generally three, four or five years, if you're, if you're gun shy and you're one and two good good good, because you should be, you really should be and there's every reason why you should be yeah. So i really get that it makes a lot of sense because most people probably don't come into trading, realizing how cautious they have to be and how much there is to learn. But let's talk about the person who has done their homework, who has spent lots of time studying who does have a level of knowledge where it is time for them to jump in uh? What you know, do you remember when you began, was that ever did you ever do that you were happy okay, 300 on a trade, and i didn't know what i was doing. Yeah got it got so i probably fit more in the gun.

Shy where i feel like no matter how much i know it's not enough, i have to know more uh, so the the people that are probably coming from that place uh when i've talked to them. What i'll say to them is how long have you been studying? How much risk management are you uh making sure you have? Are you uh clear on what your setup and pattern is and when those answers are all yes, then it comes down to them? How it really usually comes down to them not having the confidence or the comfort with being incorrect. So let's just talk about that. If you've done your homework, if you have your uh due diligence, if you're managing a risk, but then you're just afraid, you're afraid to be confident and take that potential loss.

What what would you say to those people? I mean i've honestly, i've not i've not come across anyone who's been in the game two three years, who still suffers from being gun shy, but i mean, if you do two or three gears in the game but like let's. Let's talk about beginner trainers for a year and they they should have a little more confidence. They've earned it i mean in this day and age i mean i'd, say what it, what what have you got to lose? What are you, what are you going to lose? I mean you're going to go long, 50 bucks if it goes wrong. You're gon na lose three percent, which is one one dollar.
Fifty you're gon na lose one dollar. Fifty on your turret, you don't pay commissions anymore. If you do you're gon na lose two three dollars. One dollar in one dollar out is it: is it really that much to lose three dollars and you might win fifty? You might win if you go along for fifty dollars and you win ten percent.

That's that's! Five bucks you've won, win five bucks. You lose 150 you've done your preparation and study, there's more chance, you're going to win than lose because you've done your work right. Yeah done your research. You've done your work, you know what you're doing yep yep! Why? Wouldn't you take a trade that you can win five and lose 150 and if you do lose the 150, what's gon na happen, yeah, if you buy food the next day, there's a problem.

Prob, probably probably shouldn't be trading. If you can't buy food next day, if you lose that 1.50, but if you've got 50 in your account and you can lose 1.50 40 times 35 times that 50 bucks is great great price to pay for education. That that's what i would say, it's awesome! I love that it's a it's the price of admission, it's the price of your education. I what i have seen as i think that first there are people who are on the side of wanting to be perfectionists.

I've definitely bumped into them in the webinar that i did for stocks to trade recently, uh and instagram lives. Where i do speak coaching for people. I have noticed that there are these people who have come from perhaps a huge career where they were at the top of their game and then they're coming to trading. It's completely new to them.

They feel ignorant, they feel unprepared, but they've spent time listening and preparing themselves, but they're afraid to not be at the top of their game. You know they they got to the top of the game, maybe another industry or another business or another specialty, and then they come here and they are like what one gentleman was like. You know. I was like how much of a perfectionist are you outside of trading? He was like, oh i'm, totally, a perfectionist, i'm like well.

This is going to be hard for you, then, because now it's not you're not going to be perfect because you're new at it you're only a year or two in so that's what i've seen that some people like they're, afraid to not be perfect and i'm like You're not going to be perfect here but um. The answer to that is that trading is not it's, not a business where you're an employee trading is a it's. A sport, slash competition, it's a competition and the best perfectionists and the best people who are seen as perfectionists icons in sports they're all perfectionists and you can be a perfectionist, be a perfectionist in your preparation, be a perfectionist in your study and your routine and how Many hours you do and how well you stick to your schedule and the resources that you learn yeah and how many times you recap on your trades, be a perfectionist but on game day, michael jordan does he does his routine? He does he perfects his craft and he goes out there and he leaves it all on the table and he just goes just goes for it right for sure for sure, no he's not a perfectionist in the game. He misses shots.
That's right! That's that correct preparation, that great quote that he say he talks about all the games. He lost all the shots he lost. You know he talks about that. That is just a huge distinction.

I think stephen, what you just spoke to is be a perfectionist in the prep in the setup in the studying, and then you don't have to take the concept of being a perfectionist as a traitor. Go out and leave everything. You've got on the on the field and and that's it and um you've got to lose to win, you've got to lose to it, and trading losing is being perfect. Yeah very good point very good point, all right, we're going to close it up there guys.

This is part one of a four part series. The next episode i hope, you'll join us for the about over trading to stay stimulated. How sometimes that can happen, especially to new traders, we'll see you in the next episode. Thank you for watching stephen johnson and i love we're gon na have to come up with a fancy name for our little four-part series.

What should we call it? Stephen? It's trading aq trading eq, but we can't call that that's my course's name, but we'll call it we'll call it sound. Bytes soundbytes from trading eq yeah invites okay. All right, we'll see you guys in the next episode. Thanks for watching us.

I hope you guys enjoyed that video thanks so much for watching and being part of the stocks trade community - we wouldn't be here without you guys make sure you hit that like button and subscribe to the channel. If you have not already, our goal is to hit a hundred thousand subscribers by the end of the year, but we can't do it without you guys. So if you like what we're doing here - and you want to hear more - please please please hit that subscribe button and i'll see you guys on the next video.

By Stock Chat

where the coffee is hot and so is the chat

17 thoughts on “Ep 214: what really works? directionless trading vs. developing a strategy”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Okie Tradez says:

    im your 3 year trader thats afraid BUT to me im super confident in December – February its just the rest of the year the patterns are tougher so how do i keep that confidence in a slower/tougher market??

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Okie Tradez says:

    i would like to see you all talk about SIZING UP

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Okie Tradez says:

    if you make a 20:1 trade that makes up for 20 FULL losses BUT higg frequency traders tend to stop out for many small gainz or small losses that are not full losses etc so really that 20:1 winner makes up for 40 mini losses etc if that makes sense!

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Okie Tradez says:

    ive always been gun shy

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars josef landing says:

    How much have Kim made?

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars josef landing says:

    How much have steven made?

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Tertia Robbins says:

    Such an important video! I can't thank you enough Kim and Steven! Saved to rewatch over & over again! 🙌

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Thomas Dix says:

    Even a blow up is a win!

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Thomas Dix says:

    Good stuff!!!

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars PXS says:

    Gracias, one of the best Q&A about daytrading that I have seen so far in the YouTube community.

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Milk Kash says:

    Thanks for consistently reinventing the same concepts and making me enjoy them and remind myself of things that must remember to do

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Milk Kash says:

    Thanks for consistently reinventing the same concepts and making me enjoy them and remind myself of things that must remember to do

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Dani Schei says:

    Wow 👏 superb, I'll be rewatching this episode. Steven, brilliant communication and Kim, like always you took the questions right out of my head! Really great job explaining and staying on topic!

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars DannyHoliday says:

    Stephen trying to keep a straight face talking about slapping that ask! HAHAHAHA Good stuff Stephen! Thanks Kim!

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Trading Without Fear says:

    I'd you have an edge you should hesitate at all. Why would you hesitate on you pattern to get a worst price than when you see it.

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Peace says:

    did he really see those guys are doing 30:1 risk to reward?!?!?! WTF!!!!!!!!!!! lol how is that even possible??

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars J says:

    Steven blink twice if Tim is sitting on your right forcing you to make these videos

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