Okay, we are live hold on. Let me just make sure we got the stream going on on my end and we're good to go in a second one moment here we go good good stuff, we're on all right. Okay, yes, hey! Okay! Let's go welcome! Everybody welcome to the stream shout out to the early birds, christian, daniel bryan, and we have a lot of familiar faces tom another dom in the house, so guys uh we're here today with james uh. As you can see, his name is on the screen.

Right now. James uh is uh. My a resident, cryptocurrency expert and he's gon na tell you about his background in a second and the stuff he's been doing in crypto for the past couple decades and we're here to talk about the coinbase ipo tomorrow, which is getting out of control. As far as the amount of hype, fomo and noise generating we're here to talk about the price of bitcoin right now, the future of bitcoin james is going to actually give you a a generic non-financial advice.

Answer whether you should buy bitcoin now or wait for the crash and we're here in the 10 million dollar studio, uh, so yeah, so there's gon na be a lot of really cool stuff and james is gon na show you something really really cool he's working on Uh for the past few years, which i've seen and i'm really excited to show you guys again. This is not a sponsored video, i'm not promoting anything. I'm just here to show you cool things by really really smart people and very simple um. Okay, so don't click? Nothing don't smash, nothing, just listen up james.

You want to introduce yourself and tell them a little bit about your impressive background. Sure, oh, thank you i'll! Try to be brief with it, so i have been in markets for a long time since 1997. I was an original souls trader back in the day, small order, execution system. It was one of the first waves of electronic trading to hit retail trading in nasdaq, and i used to operate a really large trading firm that had 24 offices.

I was running all of it: 10 percent of nasdaq every day like operating the trading and then shortly after that i was one of the earliest practitioners. Inventors of what later became called high frequency trading. I used to arbitrage, the nasdaq ecns, all hundred of them all hundred stocks, so island, instant b, trade, brew, etc, and back at that time, i used to start applying 3d graphics to trading. It was a thing that i was using to analyze the markets and it was kind of ahead of its time, not ready for it, and so i left markets.

Long reason ended up doing a whole bunch of other stuff, but finding my way into the world of virtual reality when the oculus came out. So when the first oculus came out, i adopted it got really deep into it and became kind of well known in the in the vr space. I was one of the speakers at the first silicon valley, vr expo at the computer history museum really exciting time and was working on a vr game studio and then, when i saw crypto like really happening and trading particularly crypto trading happening. It excited me because trading had been gotten boring to me like it was all armed out by all these hft firms and it wasn't for regular people.

But then i saw these crypto exchanges at the time like i don't know if it was coinbase and various others that were out at the time i mean it wasn't even coinbase, but several others - and i said this reminds me of the old days and was exciting. So i decided to bring back my 3d trading concepts into the crypto world and that's essentially what i'm doing now and along the way i've had a ton of experience, because i was had a really front seat for the 2017 crypto craze, because i was a part Of a company then uh that was really well known in the space, so i got to travel the whole world meet a lot of people, i've lectured and led panels in davos, during world economic forum and all over the world, and also during that time. I'll finish it up with this one of the best parts is all through that crypto scene. I started a telegram group in new york called james's crypto tree house, and it ended up being the center of cryptoculture in new york and around the world a lot of times and we held 50 or 100 dinners all over just to talk, no money.

Just for getting people together, and so i love this stuff, so it's i think what you're trying to say here is you like cryptocurrencies, i am excited by new technologies and things that provide new advantages to people um that would not formally have had them and i Think it's just i'm mostly excited about bitcoin i'll, say in general. The space yes, but right now, bitcoin is what i'm most interested in, and things built on top of bitcoin. So uh, okay, let's try to there's so much to talk about and we have a little less than an hour to do this about 45 minutes. I really want to cover everything there's so much.

I want to ask you so for me: you're, probably one of the most knowledgeable and experienced people with cryptocurrency. I have sitting in this. You know virtual chair, so i do want to ask you a lot of stuff. Let's start with the most, you know the burning question: the elephant in the room with everybody's wondering uh.

What's going on with the coinbase ipo, the valuation seems to have skyrocketed through the stratosphere, the past two weeks, yeah what's going on? Should people buy that? Should they wait what's going on, i'm not ready to advise people to buy the coinbase ipo i versus actually just buying the underlying. I mean the. I think it's very exciting. I think it's a very uh big deal because it shows institutional money coming in it's another aspect of institutional money coming in which is very different than 2017 in 2017.

The big spike in crypto and bitcoin was a lot based on hype. You know your cab driver was saying what crypto should i buy right? This is different. The google trends chart was going like this. The search results it's not happening now.

What you've got is big institutions like tesla and michael seller, putting money into bitcoin, and then you have this ipo. It's basically some sort of a stamp of legitimacy on the space which we know it didn't really need, but it need it, but it's getting it, and so i think it's very exciting, but whether you should buy the ipo, i'm not good at there's. So many factors there why buy that when you can just dollar cost average into the underlying the best investment that has been around for 10 years running and continuous will continue to be. I do believe when you say dandelion, you made bitcoin yeah bitcoin the real bitcoin, not the other bitcoins.

So what do you think about their? What what's the relative advantage of of coinbase versus their competitors? As far as it's the ux i mean it's, the user experience, you know you give it to mom and dad they don't get freaked out, they don't have to type in long codes, and it's just i mean if you pay up, you pay a premium for it. Uh, when you use, which, by the way, if you have a coinbase account people, don't know this, but you also have a coinbase pro account and if you roll your funds over there, you could you can buy for much less commissions, much less commissions. So if you're savvy, you can get a cheaper rate, but if you don't care about that, it's the ux, it's just it makes it feel like a regular thing to do on the internet and not some crazy cypherpunk thing is this uh, the first time regular joe's Mom and pops and grandpas can actually engage with with buying and selling bitcoin and don't feel like they're underground in some dungeon. I think that's a big point.

I mean there's been cases here and there, but it's way easier to say, go to coinbase by the way they just had an ipo. You know it's. It makes it way way more common for, like the the baby boomer generation, for instance, which has a lot of money to move. Do you think it will solve the problem of people losing wallets? Which is, i think that you know not.

I think, ultimately, i always tell people and that, when you're buying bitcoin on coinbase, you still should get it off of coinbase, because it's still in a centralized system. So for many people, that's all they'll do but you're still at risk. The real advantage of bitcoin is that you can self-custody it and by self-custody it means that you will get something most likely called a hardware wallet, a treasure or a ledger and take it off of coinbase. So when i tell someone to buy a bitcoin, i always continue that conversation by saying and here's how you take custody of it, because that's when you actually have that power of controlling the asset yourself and that takes some responsibility because you do have to write down Special words to be able to restore it and there's a process to go through.

So it's a great step, but i don't like to like leave people there and just leave the money on the exchange. They should get it off the exchange on to their own custody. For security purposes, yes, i mean you, remember the christopher nolan movie from 2014 um, the final episode in the batman trilogy where they hack the stock exchange account of uh. That's a problem right and they they they very much go.

Make him go bankrupt. I mean that's, but that can happen with stocks as well. Well. This is why bitcoin is so unique and i tell people even if that, if i had a kid right now, i don't have kids, i don't have children, but if i did and they were maybe 12 13, i would be teaching them how to use a hardware Wallet because i feel that that self-custodying assets is a life skill.

Now that's going to be very important going forward. So i think it sounds to me that a lot of the excitement from coinbase is um. There's probably a lot of formal there a lot of opportunistic kind of a speculation going on for sure, but it seems like a good chunk of people who are getting excited about. It are excited by the actual business.

There seems to be legitimate, honest excitement about what they're going to bring to the table with good reason. I mean consider also that the context of this is happening is in the context of rapidly devaluing fiat currency. Here in america i mean you're looking at what's happening with these coveted bailouts that have been going on and you trace the money and you realize that lots of this money got put into the u.s stock market by the banks, and so you've got this stock market. That's going up, but it's going up with essentially pumped up funny money and i think people are starting to be a little bit nervous about holding things in dollars and i think that's a very powerful context for this ipo and for bitcoin in general.

Yeah. Here, right on time, we have the comment saying: can someone go wrong with stable coins? What if coinbase or block fight, isn't able to keep one things can go wrong with stable coins? Absolutely absolutely pegs break yeah, um. So james again, coming back to the question that everybody's wondering i want to start off with you know, bitcoin has created a lot of millionaires and billionaires. In fact, i know i have a relative who's in that category and by the way he's not selling any any of it even now, and he has sense as a cost base um.

So where do you draw the line right? If you talk about the spectrum of cryptocurrencies, bitcoin is probably the less volatile the risk less risk and, as you go further from bitcoin to ethereum to xrp dodge coin. So as you go further further away, you get into more dangerous territory and obviously more opportunities. More more opportunities, but where do you draw the risk, i mean: how far would you go? How would you stray away from bitcoin? Don't - and i would say unless you are very experienced and you want to sort of enter the the casino as it were, as a trader, realize that that's what all of that stuff is in the way, and i would even propose that ethereum is in that same Basket because what i consider it like to be this, i remember the early computer industry - and i remember when i was younger. I had a commodore 64 computer and thought it was the best computer in the world and it was, i would see, kids with their ibm.

Pcs and say why do you want that thing, this thing's so much better, but the problem is what commodore compact k-pro deck and all these others failed to recognize. Is there was this open ecosystem developing and they all went away? In other words, we got to remember this is generation one tech in beta at best, and so people that are banking their whole like future on these things - and this is definitely the way forward. The only thing that i see is in that case is bitcoin core bitcoin proper. It's got 12 years of consensus of the whole world that this is how we're going to transfer money.

It's like the tcpip of money. It's like the protocol for transferring money. These other ones there's a lot of really interesting projects out there. I would say i'm also interested at conceptually, at least in the coins like monero a little bit just conceptually, because it's a privacy layer added to bitcoin.

But then, when you look at what's going on with ethereum with all these gas prices, where it is, if you want to do anything on ethereum, it costs a lot of money and it's overloaded. It's slow, they're, always promising. It's going to be faster and they're, not delivering. So just as a tech, it's got issues, and so i just i tell anyone if you've never bought anything and you've never been first understand: bitcoin.

There's a great book out. There called uh the bitcoin standard. It's a good one to read: don't even do think of doing anything else until you can understand and explain and articulate what blockchain is what bitcoin is why it is good and why it is different than the others start there and then talk about other things. Um speaking about bitcoin um, i want to ask you a question.

I noticed that you have a very firm opinion about uh nfts, and so i share your opinion. But what do you think there's a question actually from the audience right on time, uh bitcloud, which seems to be a very distant cousin of of of end of these writing i mean it. It sounds. I agree with the comment as well.

I i'm i'm not too interested in it. I think it's i think it's i like to let these nfts bit cloud, i'm going to sit back and just watch this stuff blow up and go away, and maybe, if it sticks, maybe it'll stick but man i'm a veteran of the 2017 ico craze. You know i've been there, and so i just like to sit back and see what happens with these things um. So here's a question for you and we spoke about it off air and i prepared you for this question the most common question i get from relatives and subscribers, even though they know i'm not a crypto guy is, should we wait for pullback and correction on bitcoin Or should we get it now as far as an ideology, we're not asking you for financial advice, but exactly what's your ideology? Are you just saying? Well, i'm i'm i'm just getting it because like for me, for example, if you ask me about palette or tesla i'll buy it whenever i have cash whatever the price is, so are you there or where are you at with this? It's funny the day that we're talking right now.

Bitcoin is breaking all-time highs today, so it is actually factual that the best time to buy bitcoin was any time before today, every day before today, and therefore i do think the best time to buy bitcoin is today because the idea that there is certainly going to Be another cyclical crash is flawed, i'm not saying there can't be. It would not shake my uh hope in bitcoin for what it shall be if bitcoin were to pull back to 30 000 or even 20 000, or something like that things can happen. However, there is also a very real case in which there will be no pullback, because if you look at the difference between now and 2017, there was hype. There was all these icos.

There was hype, but now what you have is institutional money coming and you had tesla put one half billion in you have michael saylor, famously from microstrategy, not only putting a major amount of money into bitcoin, but then laying the groundwork for other ceos to follow his Lead - and you know what a lot of ceos are doing right now: getting approval from their boards to put money into bitcoin. So there is and there's only 21 million, so you could miss the boat and - and so i say, don't try to time the market. The best way to buy bitcoin is to dollar cost average, that is to just buy a little bit at a time, not considering the price. I know it might be hard to hear this on a day, bitcoins breaking its all-time highs.

I'm saying buy it if you, if you want to get into bitcoin, but i'm saying it is a risky gamble to bet that it's gon na ever pull back from this. It might, but it might not um i com. I i agree with you that the final stop of bitcoin is going to be way higher than 63 000 000 for sure, and it's just i don't i'm not sure that my some of my viewers have the stomach to go through the ride, because it has a Bumpy ride i mean, if you don't, you got to be really confident if you're getting on the bitcoin train, because it's just consider if you had gotten on that train at any day in the last years, you would be happy and by the way, huge shout out To krishna gura for the five dollar donation. Thank you so much krishna.

We appreciate it, and so somebody says there's always corrections which is true, but it seems like the demand is much bigger than the supply at least right now and it's the scarcity effect. It's kicking in correct. The correction here could be from a hundred thousand to eighty thousand, for example, i'm not saying it will go there, but it could be so james. I think it's uh bitcoin as an inflationary, uh hedge very much i mean it's.

The main is the major inflationary hedge in the world right now, and i think that more and more people are going to understand that, and i think that that could be. There could be a tipping point, much like what happened with with gamestop. What happened you had in days a whole bunch of people mobilized to do this thing, to pump the stock, etc, etc. What, if that same type of a meme travels through the family offices, the high net worths that see? Oh elon's doing this michael saylor's doing this couple.

Other people jump on. How long would it take for that word to pass through the country, clubs of the country and the world to say you know what? Maybe we better put a little allocation into bitcoin and you just look at basic market dynamics after that, and that would cause a major major run-up that could be a lot more than any of us are realistically expecting reasonably er. I agree by the way shout out to the 900 people in the in the chat you're pulling in good numbers. People like your energy, but you gave away your age by talking about commodore now they know you all, because the audience is usually younger than than you and me.

1983. First computer, commodore 300 modem. That's that's crazy! Talk uh! So uh! Thank you! So much for that. Uh d harps you're, my favorite viewer.

Also thank you appreciate it um. So james uh can we step away from from the bitcoin general questions, and can we show them what you've been working on? Oh yeah, yeah yeah go so you can play. Can i put it up yeah yeah, so what this is i this is the product of my company, global liquidity, we're building this game called trade. It's a little.

It's actually runs very smooth. The stream is not uh working too well. It's okay. You'll get the idea.

Uh here, let's once you refresh refresh the page on there tom, it got messed up somehow just reload the page on the web page yeah. Somehow it got off the screen there, okay. So what this is. This is live market data from binance for bitcoin trading, the order book, so normally people traders will know the order book.

Is those flickering numbers that you don't really pay much attention to, because it's too complicated i've rendered it as a three-dimensional world that actually kind of like guitar hero for trading, and so what i'm doing is i'm bringing trading to the world here? It is well you just imagine. This runs at 60 frames per second, because it does. The stream isn't doing a good job, but what you're seeing here is the actual uh market for bitcoin coming in. Is there some sort of a problem there on your screen? I don't know why yeah it's running a little bit slow, but i just bought.

I just bought some uh, but it's not working. Let's see, oh wait. What happened the order book um? Did you buy? Yes? Oh there we go it's starting to it's, there's something matter with the stream here, bummer yeah, it's lagging it's lagging on the stream. You know uh.

Can i could i give you a quick little? Oh, i think we lost we. I think we lost james jerry's. Are you back, i'm back sorry about that? Yeah no worries. Can i uh? Are you able to play a little video? If i send you a link, yeah sure dot com just send me, send me a video, yeah and yeah.

So what i'm doing i'll tell you in the meantime, while i'm doing this is um here trade by about trader, i can show them this. The clip i saw on reddit yeah yeah here or here here this here's one, here's one uh, here's an old here's, an old video of me of me doing it i'll. Just send you the link right here. Okay, let's get it yeah! I just sent you a link perfect, i'm gon na pull it up on the screen right now for everybody to see one moment: okay sharing right now: okay yeah.

So this is this is what it looks like when it's running. Can we play on there um yeah, so there we go much better video there. So what you're, seeing there is the order book progressing in real time where every the front row is the current order book and you're seeing the last 30 seconds. So this is live, real market data to scale price is on the x axis and uh i mean yeah.

Prices on the x axis is the back when bitcoin was 10.6 and the quantity for bitter offer is the height of the bars and the green and reds are the trades. So this is the same data traders look at every day when they're looking at a binance account, but what i'm doing is i'm bringing it to the world as a video game and esport for money, so in other words, rather than actually trading at an account you're Going to be able to go to my to trade and you're, going to be able to learn to trade where you're entering and exiting long and short high frequency like in and out in seconds and you're, going to be able to use bitcoin lightning to essentially bet That you can trade better better than the other people and - and you can like put a dollar down and say i can trade better than you in a minute. Five people do it. You take those sats, the satoshi's and the whole thing is gon na have clubhouse style audio, so you can talk just like in clubhouse, while you're trading together.

So it's like clubhouse with trading game in it for real money, and this is what i'm working on productizing right now at global liquidity. I'm really excited about it. We uh just raised more money at a 10 million valuation, which is really great, i'm very happy for that that our investors got behind us again like this, and they have a big hope that we can bring this to the world in a way. My hope is, this is a way to onboard a whole generation onto markets and trading and bring financial literacy to people that would consider themselves gamers, but would never probably actually open a binance account, but they will get exposure to this, and the long-term plan is eventually To make this real trading by turning these game servers into micro derivative exchanges that actually hedge with real trades in the market, so this is a this - is like the next generation robin hood in a sense where robin hood introduced a generation to investing the new generation.

I'm hoping to introduce a new generation to trading and high speed trading via this new video game style interface. By the way this this thing is not even on beta, yet right, it's an outfit. You can actually play it right now if you go to tradethegame.com and that will take you to it's tradethegame.com and you can uh go to our telegram group, which only has 300 people in it right now, and you can actually play this in five minutes from right. Now, if you did that you can you launch it right from telegram, so if people want to check it out they'll, i think the best way i'm gon na put your twitter handle on the screen right now, so they can go.

Follow you on social media and get all the information there yeah just tweet it out, and then tradethegame.com yeah, okay. So let's also put it on the screen. Um and again, this is not anything sponsored. No! No.

This is like just hey. This is a great talk and uh. We don't have any paid product yet anyway, you know we're just working on getting this out there and uh yeah. Okay - and i really like the concept, i think also, if you can see in the chat a lot of people are excited about it and before we move on natasha.

This is donald. Thank you. So much for the five dollar donation appreciate it and more money for coffee and and some bitcoin, and so so here's a question for you as my cryptocurrency expert, so what the hell is going on with xrp. Okay, here's the deal! This comes up a lot right.

I am totally uninterested in xrp, because even if xrp succeeds wildly, the best the xrp is doing is essentially greasing. The gears of the old system they're, trying to make the payment rails between banks and other in financial institutions run more smoothly, whereas the reason i'm interested in this and the reason a lot of people are into bitcoin is not because we want to reform the old System, but we see that it is fundamentally broken and that bitcoin provides a better decentralized, hard money-based alternative, so xrp is going for something ideologically that i'm just uninterested in pursuing in my own life, uh there's somebody in the stream really wants to ask you a question. He seems eager create a geek tom. Can you please ask him why they can't just print like crazy, like the fed prince dollars? Well, there's been some some claim that they have done that in the past.

I don't know if they actually have at some level. I'm not really sure what um what i mean they're essential. I hope they don't do that i mean. Could they do that? It's it's people talk about the tether.

Whether tether is valuable when the underlying is devaluing again, i'm not too interested in tether. It serves a purpose in the ecosystem for sure um go ahead, james! No! That's about that. I don't really! I don't know. What do you mean? What he's driving out there? You know like okay by the way uh before you continue, you kind of stopped abruptly there.

The sentence i was like did he just lag. That was intentional. I have nothing more to say, like christian cruz. Thank you.

So much for the 10 donation appreciate it brother. Thank you so much and uh. So here's the thing um somebody's uh they're asking for the thing again hold on. Let me pull up tradethegame.com.

That's the url yeah and somebody's saying in the chat. It's a great way to get gamers yeah to cryptocurrency, which i i it's kind of like the guitar. The guitar hero of crypto isn't it for trading and then once gamers realize that they can make real money playing a game and not just give money to ubisoft or these big companies that doesn't really pay their light bill. I think it could be hot and i think i'm not gon na be the only one that figures this out.

I think that gaming with bitcoin lightning do we know we should mention like do you think your viewers know what lightning is go ahead, real important that uh? What bitcoin lightning is is this bitcoin is great, but bitcoin is slow. It takes at minimum 10 minutes to do a transaction, but what lightning is it's called a layer, two network that sits on top of bitcoin that enables participants on the bitcoin network to open channels, one to another and transact instantly, with very small amounts of money. So what this means from a user's point of view, is what's on the way to the internet is streaming micro, payments direct instantaneous settled no billing, you just get the sats right away, and i think that gaming is such a big use case for this, because gamers Would love to be able to send value and receive value instantly? In fact, there's a company called zebedee, which is already doing this with counter-strike or the famous first-person shooter right now go play counter-strike with sat and every time you hit the other guy. You take satoshis from them little bits of bitcoin and then they take from you.

You get 30 sec. People are making like 20 bucks a game on this thing, just playing this with no intermediary and it's bitcoin, and so i think this is a use case. That's ready to sweep the world and onboard people onto bitcoin that are not so much interested in holding it as a store of value, but they'll start to see these apps that let them play games like mine and, like this counter strike and others and they're. I think they're going to eat it up and i think it's got a very ripe time for it and some okay.

So a lot of questions going on in the chat right now so um. As far as this illuminator is saying that coinbase may go up in the short term, but will come down three to six months, it depends on what bitcoin does i mean honestly, it depends on how good bitcoin be, and that's that kind of leading to my next Question how high can this thing go? Listen, i'm going to give you the stage for yourself. Okay again, i try i'd, never predict the price of bitcoin, but how high can it go? If you look, if you just look at the the money of the world and even just the market cap of gold, and if you look at bitcoin as a superior technology for storing and transferring value and if that sort of meme goes around the fund managers and High net worths and the endowments of the world, as they are more comfortable with as an institutional asset bitcoin, could go very high. I mean i think bitcoin could easily be in the millions, and i don't say that lightly, and i don't i mean i don't know what the upper level is, but you just run the math on if these assets that are represented in other asset classes transfer that Value holding to bitcoin the simple math puts bitcoin in that range and possibly far higher.

So here's a question for you james, my main issue with bitcoin, i'm going to be devil's advocate here: yeah, i'm a layman in bitcoin, but but before we do it uh shout out to mbcd for the five canadian dollars. This is a great session guys. Thank you. No thank you.

We appreciate without you guys. This thing is just two guys in the living room. Let's just you guys make it happen. So thank you for the 900 people watching right now, um, there's gon na be more watching in the in the restream, because i'm gon na keep this on.

I usually don't, but this is an important discussion to have so uh. Thank you for for this. So going back to the question devil's advocate right, bitcoin doesn't do jack. I mean if i own a piece of a company that company generates other goods or services, so there's an intrinsic value in the underlying asset.

So i do not see the problem with owning an asset that is purely based on the greater full theory. I i don't well, i don't agree. In fact, i just posted a medium post called uh, the intrinsic value of a bitcoin i'll tweet. It later so, you can see, and i propose that bitcoin does have intrinsic value in an economic sense and possibly a new definition.

The value of, if you look at you to really ask this question you have to - and this is what i love about bitcoin - it forces all of us to go back and examine core principles of what is money. You know what is you have to say. What is money before you can examine? Is this a good money or a bad money, and i like to use the example i like to use the example of the most primitive money you might have, let's say you're with a bunch of people. You crash land on a desert, island everyone's safe you're, going to be there for a while, and you got to do chores so you start bartering, but then you might say you know i got some extra fish.

I want some firewood, but he doesn't have what i need and so somebody's going to come up with this technology called money and you might go and find 100 shells that are the same, and this there's historical precedent for this. And then you would assign those shells to people and say now: we all have these shells to start out that represent our labor, our product etc, and what you're really doing there is you're. Saying 100 shells is all the money in the world, so one shell is 1 100th of all the money in the world, so i propose that money from the beginning has been informational in nature. That is, the shell is just the carrier of that unit of 1.

100, that we all know and is fungible, and so, if you and so that's why it has value now what that value is to others is floats, but in the terms of intrinsic value, those shells have intrinsic value, meaning that one one hundredthness is is present in The shell itself, you see that's one 100 of all the cells in the world. Unlike a dollar, when you look at the dollar, you don't know what it's worth, because it is extrinsically valued by the fed and and by how many are printed. So i i would propose, then, that gold is essentially the same as those shells when we trade gold, we trade, an ounce of gold, it's that percentage of all the gold in the world. It has intrinsic value in that sense.

Now what bitcoin did is bitcoin brought to the world this concept of provable digital scarcity, in other words, for the first time there's this thing called a bitcoin which is not a shell. It's not gold, but it is a real thing that was created with a history and a provenance and a proof that it's the only one. So for the first time tom, i could give you a just like a shell, a bitcoin, a whole one. If i did, you would know, i just got 121 millionth of the whole supply, and so i would say the value proposition of bitcoin.

Is that secure immutable ledger, which is what money always really was a ledger, and this is for fiat money? Well, yes, right! Well there it's a ledger that people are modifying the entries to in fiat money, but this is a something that i claim has intrinsic value and is useful because it is in it is uncensorable and it is trustless and permissionless and trustworthy. Therefore, and in this world that has tremendous value as a technology, so i think the argument mainly if i want to distill your argument. Um is basically you're, going the opposite route of every government authority and tax authority in the world, basically saying well, this is money. It is and our definitions of uh, if you were to look up on google right now, currency, the definition of currency in the dictionary is the system of money in use in a given country.

See bitcoin doesn't fit that it's not in a country. It's a new. We need new definitions like when email came out versus mail. Well, they have other reasons why they don't want it to be money.

The reason is that you can't tax transactional, uh activity on money and if it's a property or an asset, then every transaction is taxable event which is good for you, guys for the crypto guys yeah, it's good they're good. I mean i'll, explain coffee with it. No, no i'll explain you want bitcoin to be heavily taxed by the government, because that way you ensure that they'll never cut off the branch that they're sitting on, because if they can't tax it they're gon na go at it and if they go gon na get It you think that it's immune, but nothing is immune to governmental intervention, even bitcoin, even blockchain, wildly volatile situation. I think - and it's gon na be interesting to see how it plays out.

But i understand your point: yeah. Let them tax you. If once they tax you it's game over, they can't they don't want to compete with it. They don't want to do anything to it.

I think it's just it's a healthy black male pay protection and let them leave you alone. So we have a coinbase uh opposer in the chat, so i think it's really interesting to pull up this comment. I would love to get your views on this um. I mean that's, that's an assertion i mean, i think i think nicola is a very different situation.

I mean that i don't know where they're at now, but they have a lot of big promises and they're years behind on it. Coinbase is in use every day. It's it's a valuable tool into many people. Now i'm not saying it's worth the price, i'm not an analyst.

I haven't been spending my time. Analyzing the coinbase ipo. I've got my own startup. Don't pay attention to it too much, but i think comparing it to nicola is i mean? That's it's easy to assert that.

But what is the? What is the basis for this by the way you know nicola, and i have a history? Oh yeah nicola, and i had a public beef, big public company yeah and me a random youtuber. They literally we had like a public beef over the financial times. You can. They didn't like me using highlighting the footage of the truck rolling down the hill, pretending to be propelled by some sort of an engine and they they copyright, claimed all my videos, but not for revenue.

I wouldn't have said anything for revenue the copyright claimed it. So it's a strike, so i got my channel removed off youtube because, oh no, so i called the second nickelo that's a little different than coinbase. I think so. I called up the financial times um and the guy who wrote the hindenburg report.

Nate he's a friend. So i called him up, say: hey, do you know any good reporters? He says yes, so i called up the guy from the girl, so it was a girl from financial times. She calls up youtube pr and says: how is this even possible that this just just happened? The guy just lost it and they're like yeah that that's that's! That's up and uh, so youtube reversed one of the strikes. So i get my channel back and then pretty much at this point i had.

I was basically told well just let just you got your channel back. Just sit, hang tight and i opened the public campaign against nikola the next day and then they they removed. The other strikes on their own 24 hours. Later, no dude.

We had like a there's a tweet with like five thousand retweets and like it went viral, do you think coinbase is the second nickelodeon? I don't know, i don't see it, no! No! No! No! I don't think so, but hey we're we're not an echo chamber, i like to give stage to opposing opinions. That's the whole beauty of this thing. That's that's why we do this. This isn't mainstream media, where you only get to hear one side of the story.

Uh shout out to reynoldo mendez for the 250 dop. I don't know what dop is. I'm sorry, um departments of persecution. I don't know if we find satoshi nakamoto.

Oh a great question on the beach in mexico. Oh, it's hard to say and how and how would i mean, there's so many there's so many nuances to how that would occur if satoshi revealed himself or the group that is satoshi or anything like that, and what that would do, it would depend upon who that Person was, i think, it's unlikely to happen anytime, soon, um for a number of reasons, but i think that's a big open question that no one could give an accurate prediction of that um. So you think it's a human being james, oh yeah. I i mean i, i think it's and remember one thing to remember about what satoshi did when people think of what a brilliant genius satoshi is uh that yes, but if you look at what satoshi did satoshi weaved together, three or so major technologies that already existed Um you and put them together in a unique way.

You know the peer-to-peer technology with hash cash and several other things that are referenced so, while it is brilliant genius, it's not just this thing that someone just figured out a thin air there's a lot of history. If you read all the references in there, it was just very excellent innovation that yeah generationally, wonderful, excellent science, but not not supernatural. You know it was. It was really amazing, and but it is plausible to me that it's more than one person, but i think it's likely there's one that was actually writing um, but i'm not sure, but if the guy comes out or the girl or the group and they this they Unload the the as a block, what they have like what happened with archaic's capital with the block sale? Who is it, though, is it? Does it turn out to be? You know some unknown guy or is it the nsa? You know who who is this? You know in this context, i think it's unlikely there's the nsa.

No, it would be, although that's a meme out there, that it's that people say you're gon na find out. This is all a big plan by the nsa um. You know they've had they've had their hands in a lot of encryption and things like that, but i think it's unlikely for a number of reasons. Do you think james that a lot of these big bitcoin holders are in a in a golden cage because they can't really sell a whole lot of it without uh? I think a lot of them if they're a big bitcoin holder, they have such an ideology of huddling, as it were, that they're not even trying to sell you know, and they can sell enough to make their life whatever it is.

They need to do in their life, you know it's, they they're, not hurting. You know you can easily you can smash. I was talking to a guy today on clubhouse, who has exited several companies for 500 million he's big into bitcoin, and we were talking about how he buys lots of bitcoin. He says he just smashed buys market for million dollar chunks on coinbase these days and so like you can just he doesn't even do limit orders just mark it by it's that liquid.

What would the uh i mean the winklevoss twins? They need their yacht. You know what i mean um. Imagine the commission on that trade on coinbase man, yeah, there's gon na be so oh, we have another super chat hold on. So a shout out to vikrant s for the five dollar donation just joined the chat.

How does pressure and transaction fees affect future revenue and or evaluation a great question transaction fees on the bitcoin network? Well, remember also that anytime, you're trading on coinbase. Are you talking coinbase transaction fees? I think he's talking about the platform transaction um. I guess it's a free market and there's going to be competition and remember, there's also competition up coming from decentralized exchanges, dexes, which are very immature, but the world could decide that decentralized exchanges have uh advantage over centralized. That is exchanges that run on chain and not coinbase are not centralized exchanges, so they've got they've, got competition from dexes competition from other exchanges with lower rates, but then again they've got the coinbase name and that ux that mom and dad will like yeah.

You got a compliment from brian cork. Oh thank you brian. I, like the name, frank. Is this a real name that has to be an elliot, um, okay, so um james before we let you go since we're um.

Pretty much. Have five more minutes left we're? Probably going to take another question or two from the audience before we let you go um, so here's the question that everybody's again asking me about cryptocurrency, and do you think that um there's a way for governments to like what india is trying to do right now? What china has been trying to do you think at some point, it's gon na get too too big for its own good and governments are gon na start a war against cryptocurrencies. Okay. This is a big question.

I think that the i think that the issue of money, whether it should be decentralized, whether it should be bitcoin whether it should be fiat, could be one of the most divisive issues in world history. And i think that there could be many different views on this. Of different nation states, for instance, we're already seeing this where certain countries like uh portugal, for instance, and i believe uae and several others are putting in uh legislation to attract crypto. You know no capital gains things like that.

So who stands to lose? Really, i think it's the u.s and their financial system, where they don't want the dollar, to go away, that the dollar is essentially the stranglehold on the world that is run by the dollar. In fact, the congressman came out uh. Last year 2019 a congressman from california came out and he was saying we have to stop crypto bitcoin right now, because bitcoin is strikes at the heart of the us's dominance on the world stage. Our ability to levy embargoes on foreign nations uh the fact that all oil trading must be cleared through the us through the new york fed and in other words he came out and was saying that the us uses the dollar essentially to control the world and crypto Strikes at that, you know he's right, he's right, so what i think that they will probably try to do in the u.s is i wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of legislation that attempts to sort of subvert those overall, the overall sort of cypherpunk goals of Bitcoin by by maybe having legislation that says, private people can only hold it in a custodial account things like this.

It wouldn't surprise me, but overall technology wins, it might take a generation or a shorter generation. But there was a time when knights and armor run the world and then gunpowder came out and then the armor didn't work anymore and then the middle ages, as it were, were over period, even though no one could have conceived it 20 years earlier. So it's early days and we will see, but yes, it's very volatile. I believe i love the the audio effects, as you were saying that the cryptocurrency there was a blender in the background, as you were still talking about the dollar getting shredded.

That's the money printer going um, here's the easy question for you. I know what you're going to answer. Oh well, bitcoin yeah! I knew you're gon na answer this i mean it's like bittorrent. You know the the the uh bittorrent is the file sharing protocol the internet for 20 years you're, not going to change that.

You can't change it. The consensus of the world has decided same thing with bitcoin. It's the real thing. My full name is james.

Andrew walsh. I go by james andrew. I have a russian name that nobody knows, i'm like satoshi, it's a secret uh. Even my parents, don't know it, and here you go.

We got another shot. Super chat from louis ascona from the philippines, great question yeah. This is a great question i think the answer is there is energy expenditure for sure for to create to use to make bitcoin through the proof-of-work mining? But if you look at the relative amount, it is a fraction of the energy expenditure spent running amazon data centers, for example. That's a fact: you can look up the stats um and also it's a fact that, because bitcoin miners are incentivized to get the lowest cost energy possible, many of them are actually moving toward both renewable sources and also towards sources that would otherwise go to waste.

It's called flared gas they're actually going to these places that have excess capacity of uh gas that they can't deliver and they say, look we'll just set up mobile rigs at your at your place at the plant and they're, basically burning this stuff off and and actually Making it better for the environment because of the way they're doing this, so the motivation of the bitcoin world to go for cheap energy is pushing actually the world toward hydroelectric power and using gas that would otherwise be wasted. So there's a bunch of forces and overall compared to, for instance, the the amount of pollution that goes into the world by let's say the the u.s navy every year as they're patrolling the world defending the old monetary system. You know, there's there's hidden energy and environmental costs to our current economy. Bitcoin just wears on its sleeve, because everyone knows about mining, but in the big scheme of things i think it's worth it for what it does for humanity.

Great answer er. I would only say one thing is that it's easily solvable once electricity prices go up, it's going to be a lot less mining activity, because it's not going to be as worthwhile, but at these prices of bitcoin. If this is a million dollars, though, that might level out yeah, i'm still living in the like, if bitcoin goes any higher, it doesn't really matter at this point, electricity has to be like million dollars per kilowatt. So there's a lot of gambling going on in the chat right now so thomas satoshi nakamoto.

I wish i wouldn't be doing this podcast if i was believe me hammer and sickle clothes, no cigar, larry, no okay, so um enough of the jokes! So, okay, so james last question before i let you go um you ready for this yeah gamble away prices, not by non-binding. Oh i i i refuse to answer respectfully. I i just ideologically. I don't even know what price an ipo to i'm literally, not paying attention.

Well, i'm going to give you some base numbers and you can gamble like they do in the casino completely non-financial, just based on pure emotion, so, the in internal private sales they were doing in march. The employees and shareholders were about 68 billion valuation right now, based on the futures that are trading in europe on this stock they're talking about 148 149 billion valuation for the company yep. So it's so just you know, throw a dart at the wall yeah, but i don't know i don't have enough information there to know. What's the float, what's the you know, i don't know, i i literally don't have enough information even to make an educated guess on the price based upon the valuation, i'll tell you where i'm what i'm going to get etc.

I don't think it matters. What is your answer to this? Okay? So look at what happened with the hype when you remember doordash and airbnb, when i like went public when you have something. That's super super hyped like this. It doesn't really matter you can put gazillion dollars as the target price.

It's gon na go up in the first couple days because everybody's gon na be buying it just because they think it's it's going up, which is reasonable to think, especially since it's happening when bitcoin is breaking its highs. You know there could be a fomo there, but i have no particular prediction. Well, as warren buffett said, if you're only logic for buying something is, is the idea that it might go up in the future? Probably not a good trade, but uh bitcoin might prove him. Otherwise, who knows he might come around eventually he'll probably buy coinbase at least um.

Well he's he is. Do you think i like berkshire hathaway investing in coinbase? I don't know that's up his alley. It's a big, we'll see we'll see more likely than bitcoin uh. I don't see it really sitting well with the the other stuff he has there jnj and yeah american airlines.

I mean it's different, um, hey james. I held you a little bit longer than we initially wanted to. Thank. Thank you so much.

We have 1024 people in the chat right now. I like that number as a programmer one kilobyte of people yeah one kilobyte. Thank you for everybody in the chat yeah. Thank you tom.

It's been awesome uh. If you're willing to come back again and talk, it seems that people are really thirsty for more bitcoin stuff yeah, and i said i don't have it in me to do more real bitcoin stuff. I don't i'm not an expert, so i'd love to bring you back on talk more about bitcoin because he seems to be. People are really interested in this topic.

Thanks thomas and grammar yeah. Definitely just hit me up and we'll do it for sure. We have some uh thank yous from the chat from james from sarah awesome thanks. Everyone from jamie somebody says: ethereum good old russian prize, oh by the way for anyone.

That's on clubhouse the awesome app, i'm james andrew on there. If you want to just you know, i talk on there a lot uh, crypto and coffee room and cafe bitcoin, i mod in them some really great content on there. If you want to know about bitcoin and you're on clubhouse, it's really the best way to learn, because there's so many people on there that are just sitting there all day just to help talking like this all day. Uh, if you have a new person, just come on to either crypto and coffee or cafe, bitcoin, and just like ask your questions: how to set up a wallet whatever you'll find a dozen people that want to help you.

If you really want to learn and are willing to do the work yourself and don't just want to be handed, you know easy answers. Uh. This is something horrible in russian which i cannot translate. I'm just kidding.

You just says. Thank you for the nice chat. I was just with you and but the listen james. Thank you so much.

It's been a pleasure. It's been great yeah, we'll we'll get you back on for sure. Quite soon, all right see you later see. You later see you later everybody in the chat.