People say that um, how do you, how do you get out of a a trade or how do you? How do you make money on trade, and the only way you can can make money on a trade is, if you trust yourself, that you're gon na get out of a trade and for a long time. I didn't trust myself, and so i would get in the trade and the trade would start to go against me and i'll say. Oh, it's going to come back. It's going to come back, it's going to come back and then before you know it i was.

I was down 800. welcome to the steady trade podcast. We are back with kim and a very special guest guy called clutch trader clutch clutch trades, clutchy clutch clutch on twitter, um clutch caller clutch caller. I really wanted to get this guy on, because he's done what very few do uh and it shows extreme promise uh.

This guy has uh. He started off with just a couple of thousand dollars like two three thousand dollars: four thousand dollars struggled and as many do under the pdt. It's a major issue for a lot of traders, uh and then something's. Clicked he's had back to back five figure months, 10k plus months and that's put him over the pdt, so he's done.

What very few can do so a lot of people by the way over pdt clutch caller has created his way over pdt. So we just want to get him on uh, hear a story here i clicked and and help everyone else do the same thing so welcome clutch. Welcome kim! Oh thank you! Welcome, uh, it's a pleasure being on so this this is truly humbling. I appreciate you guys.

It's so great, where, where do you uh? Where do you live uh, i'm in texas? I live right outside of dallas, okay. So what time? What time do you get up in the morning, um? Usually um i'll? I i i'll check the stock market, i'm an early riser, so i get up naturally about 4 35. In the morning, um i'll check the stock market about six and then i walk away um, it's a little different. When i first started training.

I was up at six and i i i watched the market open and i sat there until it closed and recorded it, and but now, with my trading style, more um honed in i, i walk away until it's time for me to make a trade good job. How long have you been out for um roughly about five years, dude, that's how long it takes man like for most people. That's how long it takes well um when i, when i first started uh like i said i got in with timothy sykes and tim bowen, and you guys and and i would listen to your webinars and um. I was part of the the penny stocking silver program and i would get all these alerts, and so i i i'm an ex-teacher and - and i was a football coach, american football coach, and so when i, when i got into it, i never want to do anything.

Just uh just to try it, i want to do something to just to be great at it, and so i gave myself a four year plan um, because that's pretty much what what lawyers doctors, people with degrees go through. If they want to be successful, they have to get the training, so i gave myself four years to really um master being a traitor, because, honestly, i had no. I had no idea what um day trading was now i i've invested before you know i bought you know: long-term stocks like tesla, carmax, um home depot, those types of stocks and held them for years, but when it came to day trading, i had no idea uh. What i was getting myself into so can i just ask so like what was the stuff that you did in the beginning that didn't work? I mean it all, contributes to your growth right.

But what was the stuff that you did in the beginning and then what was the stuff that you did, that made a click, because obviously it's just clicked right. You just had back-to-back 10k a month out of nowhere so like how has this happened? Okay, so in the beginning i was more of a sheep, and so i was i was watching the dvds and you know i was just watching them and i was watching it over and over and over, and i would listen to the rolling wolf's and you know 17-Hour days of studying - and you know - and so i was watching and watching and and that's what i did wrong, you know i just watched hours and hours of videos thinking that it was going to make me a great stock trader. It's going to click exactly, and so what i did after um and i i started off with this very small account started off with 500 um, and i i told myself if i can double 500, then i should be able to double a thousand, and i i Can i can i've proven that i can double it um? The problem is when you have such a small account like that is you're only making 15 a trade. You know, and so after doing that, for so long it became depressing and the hardest thing about.

It was convincing my wife that i was. This was a good thing, you know, and she, when i would sit in front of the computer all day long, and i would tell her you know i made 12 today and she after a period of time, she started to get frustrated with that, and so so For me, i had to change my mindset of of how did i do in the trade? Not how much did i make in the trade, and so i shifted from making dollars to how much did i make per share, and so you know 15 cents a share or 35 cents a share started to to to seem better. You know because, even though i only had 10 shares - or you know 35 shares, i knew one day if i had 3 500 shares the potential of that trade was this much, and so it stopped being so depressing for me and, and so, but that was the Biggest thing i didn't do that i did wrong was um, i didn't i, i didn't take the time to break down the videos and the charts that i was watching. Let's just talk about that, because that was fascinating, that you watched hours and hours and hours of video, and yet that was what you attribute now to being one of your strategic errors.

So what what do you wish? You had done with those videos, because those videos obviously are needed for beginners, but where was that point where that was all you were doing, um so um after about a year of growing my account and then losing growing losing i didn't, i didn't ever feel confident. I didn't ever feel like i could enter a trade and confidently uh lose or confidently win um, because i mean quite honestly when you're looking for a a dip buy on the five-minute chart, it looks totally different than the one-minute chart. You know on the one-minute chart. Looks totally different than the 15-minute chart and at 8 30 in the morning it looks totally different than it does at 11 o'clock, and so my mind was just like.

Am i doing this right? Am i doing this wrong, and so i went back to what i know and what i know is that um trading is, is the closest thing that i that i can get to to competition, and i love competition. That's why i was a football coach. That's why i love playing poker um, because it's competition, and so i took i i treated trading just like that, and so in my coaching career i would watch hours and hours of coaching film and i would look for certain tendencies in each play, and so i Basically started to do that with my stock charts, i would record all the top runners for the day i'll record, the screen from eight from from 8 to 8 30 a.m. Until the close and i would just watch the level two, i would watch how the stocks move, the charts, moved and - and i put up every indicator possible on my chart.

I put up every moving averages uh v web um. I would trend lines i mean i had everything on my chart at first, because i was looking for how and why these stocks move the way they move. You know, because i would see runners that they would start off, they would gap up. They would run up to a new hive day and then they would finish and they would they would be.

You know under v, and so i started to look at and i found tendencies that i could. I could look at and say these stocks. Eighty percent of the time they do this - i don't care what they do in the middle, but they're going to start here and they're going to end here based upon these tendencies. These indicators that i was able to find that were consistent, and so after hours and hours and hundreds of recordings and um, i was able to finally understand how a stock moves.

Where is it going to end up, and i just have to be put myself in a good position to be able to to be willing to stomach um, the bad entry um and so for a long time? What i did was i i paper traded. My first entry, so my my first entry instead of going actually going into it, i would pretend to go into it because 90 of the time i was wrong, and so i said well, if i'm wrong - and i paper trade this then this my my you know How you you always tell people to size in well, my first size in was it was a paper trade. It was a pretend. So if i was wrong no big deal, but if i was right then my second entry was my my real entry and so that's where it's really helped me out, because i've been able to to become patient doing that um and there was a lot of times And, like i said i would i would i would make a thousand lose a thousand make a thousand lose a thousand, but for me a lot of it was learning and trusting what i was doing.

Um and a lot of those those those failed. Um trades was all learning to me um, so i don't know if that makes sense. No, no, i don't honestly, i mean i'm presuming that you're short mostly show biased by the way you're talking. I can tell, by the way, you're explaining things that you sound so biased, right um.

Actually i don't like shorting stocks at all um. I i actually want to be a long trader, yeah, unfortunately, fortunately being under the pdt. I found that that's the way you can make the most money, yeah sure yeah dude, i'm i'm i'm in the same boat as you and and actually i remember, making the exact same realization as you um, probably just before i had like i. I was exactly exactly exactly where, where you were um i'd say like march last year march last year, it just clicked that no matter, i thought just macro all right, like big picture, um yeah, these kinds of stocks that are up this much 70 percent will be Here, by the end of the day, so it was always just a case of getting the best entry possible to have the best risk reward to like, because what you don't lose on the way up.

You make even more on the way down right, yeah um. We just got to it, i got through it through track and excels, and you've got it through watching screen recordings, but both put you at the the same end result the next. The next part is like what i found to grow and i've had a tough year by the way. But what i've found to grow is by looking at all of the different variables so like maybe a company that has had a really bad financial year will you'll be able to show that more aggressively or a company with a an existing atm in progress.

You can show it a little earlier where the lower float. You have to short a lot later and you start refining the entry entry day. What you're doing the same thing always happens. You know it's going to fail good, high probability of failure.

It's just when you get in and you learn to get better executions through exploring the variables. If that makes sense, oh yeah, absolutely and and one of the biggest things that used to frustrate me was, i would be in the right position and then i would get scared out of the stock and i would cut it and then it would. It would shoot up yeah, yeah five dollars and then um. You know i i would get scared and then i'll cut my short, quick and then it would drop from underneath me, and i got tired of that happening, and so that's why that's why i threw up every indicator because i was looking for an edge of there's.

Got to be some consistencies in the way a stock chuck stock moves, because we're dealing with people same thing with the football play same thing on the poker table. There's always things that that tip you off to the direction. The big dog, the big people, with the big money and market makers, those people want the stock to go, and it's only a matter of time of when they take that stock. There, yeah and so tracking.

All those indicators um i've been able to to hone it down to probably three or four indicators that i use um. To give me a good feel for where the the direction of the stock's gon na go and because of that, i'm able to hold through you know some bad entries and feel confident that it's going to work out and, and that only came with hours and hours Of screen time um watching the level two um, because before then i i i i was, i was frustrated. I was getting out early getting in too early and it started to to shake my confidence and there were a lot of times. When i said you know, i don't know if this is for me um, you know, but at the same time i thought in back my my mind that if i'm willing to do the work and get the proper training um, i can be successful and - and i Always told myself that - and you know five years later, um i'm in a position where i feel confident in my trades and if i lose, i'm not upset.

If i win, you know great um, it's more about the execution now um than than it's ever been, and and i'm glad that i'm finally at this point, because i feel like i'm an actual stock trader, you know yeah yeah, the the one important thing that that I think you're touching on and just to clarify it is that i think the main thing that you're communicating is that you're trading, the big picture. Do you know how like a lot like 90 percent of traders losing a lot of traders lose a lot of traders? Are chasing price action where you're not doing that? You're trading, the big picture, you're saying look based on my analysis of everything i've seen over the years. I'm saying that this is going to end up here, but, oh everyone else. A lot of the losing traders are.

Oh, it's just double bombed. It's just done this, it's just! Unless exactly right! Well, the better traders, the winning traders, often will look at the technicals and maybe the fundamentals and think this should end up here. So i'm not going to worry about the noise, i'm not going to worry about the the ups and the downs. I'm just going to put my trust and conviction that this is going to end up here, but the the issue is, i also hold through some small pullbacks, some small trend changes.

Thinking look keep the big picture in mind, but how do you differentiate from when good question some some slight uncomfortableness becomes a squeeze or becomes a situation that you don't know if you can cut? Do you know what i mean oh yeah, absolutely um and, and that that's the hardest part is some people say people say that um? How do you? How do you get out of a a trade or how do you? How do you make money on a trade, and the only way you can can make money on a trade is, if you trust yourself, that you're going to get out of a trade and for a long time i didn't trust myself, and so i would get in The trade and the trade would start to go against me and i'll say: oh, it's going to come back. It's going to come back, it's going to come back and then before you know it i was. I was down 800, but even before the trade happened, i didn't trust myself that i was going to get out of it, and so until i trusted myself and it's crazy because i started uh, i i i a few years ago i started. I got back into poker and i was a big time tournament uh online poker player, and i remember i was looking over my old poker notes and i said in my poker notes.

I said i have on there that i asked myself two questions. Is this hand? Gon na win me the tournament or is this hand gon na knock me out of the tournament you know, and so and i i said you know that's perfect for trading, so i i switched that to this trading and i i basically changed. The words and said: is this trade going to make me a millionaire and if it's not get out of it, get out of it, it doesn't matter if i'm down 50 or or 200, but if this trade isn't going to make me a millionaire, what's the point In staying staying in it, you know the reward isn't there, but this trade could potentially take me out of the game, that's right, and so once i i took that correlation from the poker table to the trading uh desk. I was able to say: okay: is this trade really going to be that important to my trading career no get out of it, and so you know there's a lot of times and trust me, i'm with you um there's a lot of times when i hold it.

I'm like, but this is the one that's going to change. This is the one that's going to come back and and then i end up. You know going further than i thought and then i get out of it. I'm like.

Oh, that's learn, that's learning you know, but i hope that makes sense. But perfect i mean to me it's uh it's. It makes absolute perfect sense, but we're from the same cloth. So oh yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.

I know you play poker and i also play clip poker as well: yeah yeah yeah! Do you. This is a random question, but i'm gon na go there because he used to be a coach. Have you by chance clutch seen ted lasso the new series on uh apple? No, i don't watch much uh television um. The majority of my stuff is stock charts.

I bet have that he he's uh he's a coach and uh. I too don't watch a lot, but i had too many people that i respect insist upon it because of his perspective on sportsmanship and his perspective, he's coming from a place of the glass half filled, but just some of the things i've heard you say, uh are Reminding me of like they they'll call them a ted lassoism. So it's it's probably one worth watching, because it's it's just about that. He he's not just looking at that game.

He's looking at the big picture, he's looking at the moods of his uh players, he's realizing that their perspective or belief or lack of belief in themselves is going to impact them on game day, and i just feel like so much of what you've spoken about. It's like you have really been an observer of your own uh internal dialogue, and that is part of what's shifted and also that you came into trading with a time horizon. That was realistic, that this i'm gon na give myself four or five years. So it just feels like you've done a lot of things on the kind of emotional intelligence side really well so congrats man.

I appreciate that you know that was another thing that that um as an ex-coach teacher um, i i had to go into okay. If i was designing a stock trading course, what would it look like? Yes, would i just take one um one teacher's course absolutely not, and so i went out and i looked for the top six seven traders out there and some of them. I learned a lot of what not to do like i'm not going to do that. That's not my style, i don't, and so the others um you.

You pull different things, just like just like when you're you're studying for your degree, you have several different professors throughout your your career in college, and so you know i mean i i i've studied them all: tim sykes, tim bowen, stephen um, tim gratani, pop john papa Um decmark canal desai mean all of them and and i took them and i've taken rolling wolf. I've taken the boot camps, uh bought the videos watched all the youtubes, and i say oh there's. No, i didn't i've never watched all the youtubes people that say that i'm like wow, that's crazy, that you watch all of them. You know i did this a lot.

I did this for a lot of hours and i never watched all of everything you know, and so when they say that i'm like man, i don't know how you did it, because i only have 24 hours in a day right exactly. But it also sounds like you're smart enough to realize that you can't just watch. You also have to get in on the field you have to get in front of, and and look at it for yourself because then showing you and then telling you isn't the same as you recognizing it, and that, i think, is a big distinction to you gave Us early on in this conversation was that you realized at some point uh. If i watch these i'll become it and then you realize no.

Actually, i have to start to take what i've learned from these videos and start to implement it and see. If i can do it on my own, which is really, i think that is an important truth for anybody listening, because i i do think there is that's. What is that called? That's, like you know, uh per good enough is the enemy. What is that perfection? Is the enemy of good enough? You know exactly sorry dude.

Can i just check? Were you five years five years full time or were you working some of that time? Good question um yeah i mean um, i was i mean i had a job, you know, and so, but i mean i was pretty much full time because any chance i got and that's why the screen recordings came. You know unfortunate that i was in a position where i could um look at the gappers see what was running in the morning hit record on my screen and then i would go and then i would come back and i would just watch it over and over And over, but i didn't do this starting off. It wasn't until probably um last year that i started to feel confident in knowing what what patterns are out there, knowing what indicators um most people watched, you know, understanding, uh filings, i understood you know, float rotation all that stuff. I understood how it worked, but now i was at a position where i needed to understand: how did the trade happen like what were the market makers trying to do? How are they manipulating the the retail investors and could i identify when and how that was happening? Um, because i mean i, i just got tired of going up and down, and you know when i would lose.

I didn't feel confident in my loss, and that was the biggest thing that i took from coaching is anytime. We lost the game, yeah i've, they just beat us it wasn't because we weren't prepared it wasn't, because i wasn't confident in our game plan. It was because we just got outplayed, and i didn't feel that way in in in trading and that's what i really worked hard to do. Um - and so you know, i mean i wasn't full-time but at the same time any any time i had was devoted to that yeah, but dude.

I have to tell you that you have my uh full of respect, because uh five years i mean people, people will say that i'm resilient, like oh steven's, such a resilient trader, like five years he's still going but like, but i had like. I had tim sykes sending his emails here and there showing me support and i had like hundreds or thousands or whatever on youtube and i keep going and i'm like i'm never gon na, let them down. But what i think's even more impressive about you more impressive than me, is you did it in the dark? Like some people, you might have told, and some people you might know, but you did five years grinding in the dark, not in the public spot and and um and then you've like and then you've been resilient enough to stick to it and now it's paying off. Oh man, i tell you what the um the hardest thing about stock trading is, is that you are alone in in in in football and poker and and every other um.

You know career like that. You have those moments of recognition. You know, after a win, you know people applaud you, people, you know here on the poker on the trading desk. If you have a a win, no one's there to congratulate you, yeah yeah, but dude dude.

If you lose it's like you're, like it's all on you like, if you use it, what did i do? Yeah go figure it out yourself, because no one's gon na tell you and, and the only thing the other thing about that is the people in your life that you do tell they don't understand. Yeah. You know the process, they don't understand the work. They don't understand.

The mental strain they don't understand it so when you try to tell them it's like you know who cares you know it's? Not they just don't get it so you're you so that oh steven and kim there were lots of times. When i listened to y'all's, podcast and and tim bowen - and you know it gave me the the the the the the will to say, you know what just keep going, keep going, keep going um you know, tim sykes is um twitter and instagram posts. So you know him, and i said you know if these people can can do it. That's right, there's nothing that that they have that i don't so, if i'm willing to put in the time and the effort and the energy yeah, i don't know when it's going to happen, but i know it will happen because i've been blessed with certain.

You know um yeah dude. If you heard it and you've got to drive, i cannot fail. Yeah yeah for sure is your wife, as your wife, uh support and fluff it now uh. Now she is now she is at first like i'm, i'm telling you it was.

I mean i was doing it so much. You know before i was watching videos um in the car i was listening to to to podcast and um. I mean it was non-stop and for years i would tell her. You know i made eight cents a day.

Yeah 20 cents today and then, once one day we were in the car and - and i would never do this - i i never recommend doing this, but i i i i got into a trade at the house and i was on my computer and we had to Leave so i took my smartphone and i was in the middle of the trade in the car and it ended up going where i knew it was going to go, ended up making like eight hundred dollars and - and i told her and she was like. Oh wow. That's that's crazy. You know, i think after that point when she started to see like the real dollars yeah.

It became more of a okay you're, not wasting your time. Yeah, yeah and she's always been super supportive and you know, but she's also the person. That's like you know, gon na hold me accountable and yeah. You know, let's go, let's go for sure for sure.

Do you? What do you attribute your wisdom to know this? I'm gon na give myself the four or five years. What where'd that you know talk about! Managing your expectations, what informed that um - because i always looked at you know it's not like i was - i was getting into um. You know flipping burgers. You know if i wanted to become a a great burger, flipper um.

It wasn't going to take much time all right yeah, but if i wanted to get into, i was getting into a career where you could potentially make millions. You know, and in the back of my mind i always thought if you're, if you're going to enter a career, that you can make millions on, why isn't everyone else doing this good question good question doing this and so right, the more i researched and the more I watched and um the more i understood, there's a lot that goes into this, and this isn't this isn't just something i'm gon na. Do you do this is this is something that you have to go in and know you know um, and so because of that i was able to put myself in a position of um, because it's not about the the knowledge. It's about the control of the emotion when you're in that trade to be able to pull the knowledge out of you, because when, when the rubber hits the road and you're in a a big stop, like the other day, i was in the stock bbig, and i Had a lot of a size in that one that was the biggest stock i've ever traded, i think i had 3 000 shares, and - and so i wasn't - i knew my setup was - was right, but the emotion of the size of the trade had me questioning.

Do i stay in, do i get out, do it, and so finally, i had to walk away, and i was like okay, just trust what you've been doing. That's right and i trusted it and it ended up working out for me um, but i think that's what it was is um is is just knowing that if if this was easy - and you know it's not gon na you're, not gon na pick it up in Six months and now there there are people that do uh steven ducks. You know um those guys had had off too. But for me i i just i i i'm very um.

I need to know all the ends and the outs yeah, and so i figured i can't learn just from one guy yeah. No, it sounds like pragmatism. I mean it sounds like you're pragmatic enough to realize if this is the most competitive game in the world. With that much of an upside, there must be some sort of skill set that i'm going to have to develop for me to succeed at yeah.

Definitely do you i i are you comfortable, saying how old you are. I'm 42. yeah. So i i just wonder if age has something to do with that too right, just a maturity level of like this is not going to be a cash and grab.

You know. You've lived life, you've gone through different disappointments and obviously just being in sports uh. You've seen people can give it their all and still lose so it feels like maybe that helped temper your expectation. I really feel so much so many traders sabotage themselves at the beginning because they don't have proper expectations and then that gets them discouraged very quickly early in the game.

And it's just that mindset like this is a marathon not a sprint, and it just seems like you got that right away, uh, yeah and unfortunately um it it took it took some. You know some some big losses. It took to get me to that point to where i was like. Take a step back, see what i'm doing come up with a plan um, because in the beginning you get in there and you buy the dvd.

You listen to the webinar and everyone's telling you watch watch videos watch videos study. Are you studying late night tweets who's up studying you know, and so you get into that mindset of doing what they and i get it. You know there's they're selling a program, they're they're, you know they're they're doing what they have to do on their end, but at the same time it wasn't until i said, okay take a moment. Figure out, you were a teacher.

You were a coach figure out. Is this the best way to get to where you want to be, and so, when i figured out that i probably wouldn't do it that way, i started to make up like pretty much a um, a um, a course syllabus of what would i do yeah to Get here, and so so i put together who, what, when, where um based upon this. This is what i need to do, and so i i i mean, and there were a lot of traders that i knew i wouldn't agree with yeah. But at the same time, they i needed to hear their perspective because i needed to know what not to do totally and what because - and you never know, who's who's going to say something a certain way and then it clicks and sells it helps you define your Style, your temperament, your character, like there's, there's a view you have on the world and if you don't understand uh what works for you, how are you going to be able to live with it, to go the distance yeah? Exactly and and that's that's one of the biggest things is is when i, when i, when i started to take 100 ownership of my trading.

That's when i started to see a huge change in in the way i started to to see the market um, because before then i was just you know. If it didn't work, i would say that that that doesn't work. You know this guy's just trying to pump up a stock. You know, and i was blaming everyone else, because i wasn't where i thought i needed to be, and so until i i took ownership of where i was then i started to make that that change and i saw a drastic change in in um and where i Was now it took me five years, but i probably could have started being a lot more profitable two years ago, but i didn't feel like i had a total understanding of the market yeah um, because when i first started i was all about longing and i didn't.

I didn't know anything about shorting and so um when i started to to figure out how to short, i i opened up a trade, zero account and i started trying shorting um. I blew up a couple of trades and shorting and i didn't feel good at all. At all, so i stopped, and so i went back to just longing but longing it. It takes so long to guess.

Yes, it it it takes so long to get, but at the same time the profits aren't as nearly as big as when. You're short. I think you've got to understand the long game because, like you you, you must know dan irish bryce, toohey, matt, monaco. Those guys are pulling 30k weeks - sometimes 30k, yes with size, but do that.

I think those guys are hitting 10 7 to 10 to 12 percent. Yeah, no, no yeah. I agree um the only thing i'm saying from from where i was a lot of times. I would only have one bullet for the day yeah.

I only had three or three trades for for the week yeah, and so you know when you only have one bullet, that's a huge difference. If you, if you miss on your long trade and it goes against you, you got to get out yeah yeah, because it's it's going down and it's not coming back up exactly, and so you know now that i'm over pdt i'll be able to to play the Longs in a different way than i did when i was under pdt yeah um. Just because of you know i don't you don't have that that restriction of you know you got ta get out and you can't get back in because you don't have no more trades. Yeah um, can i celebrate it? Have you celebrated cross computed teeth? Did you like yeah as much as like when it's such a lonely, hobby or lonely career yeah you can.

All you can do is like yes and yeah look around and you know you know catch yourself on the back. I love a beer with you in america, have a beer with you when i'm there and say well done, but can i just ask like what was the setups that you found the most success? In short, because, obviously, you've got like first red day, you multi-day parabolics your gap and crafts like what are you shorting? What worked you shorted bbig, so it was like a first screen day in a big gap. So, for me, like you, showed like a multi-day gap, but there's also like gap and craps first red days like what was it that um? What's the setup that you're shortening that you found success in um, honestly, i i don't i don't i don't. I don't work off of patterns now the pattern.

The pattern is part of the the tendency that i use to give me conviction that this is gon na be a short today. This stock is gon na end up here. You know um because you know when i was coaching and we would look at plays. I would say: okay, if, if the left, if number 64 comes in the game, they're going to do this, you know and if and if the the the wide receiver uh claps his hand, twice they're going to do this, and so based upon that we would come Up 80 of the time when number 64 is in the game, this is what they're going to do, and so, when i would identify what i thought was it, what i think is a gap and crap or a or a dip buy or a red green or A um v web hold um that i use that as a tendency that i put together with you know.

The other indicators that i use to give me that percentage of is this stock, going to go short by the end of the day, or is it going to be a long by the end of the day and what i did was i took the first 8 30 to 9 o'clock in the morning and - and i broke that down for for trades and um - i put it on a stopwatch. I would record and i would watch that 8 30 to 9 p.m. Trade am trading, and i would time it. I would time from where the the big move happened, and i said okay base ninety percent of the time i only have less than five minutes to get in and get out before.

They change directions yeah, so it um morning, trading 8, 30 to 9 is is real fast. You know is that central time or what's that eastern time is that central time or eastern time time, yeah yeah see because see if you're talking like 9 30 to 10 30 or something eastern yeah, yeah yeah, so the first 30 minutes of the trading day yeah. I ha i i have it on a watch and if i enter a trade in the in the first 30 minutes, i'm looking to get in and get out, i'm not holding, and that was the biggest thing in the past. I would wait to see what i was looking for before i tried to enter or exit a trade and that's one of the biggest mistakes.

Is you try to see it because you don't you don't have the confidence or the the the conviction to say i'm gon na go all you know, i i have to do it now. It's more reactive. You know now i i i get in or get out based upon what's happening. I don't need to see it because i know it's going to happen yeah, but i mean basically cut out it get out of it yeah.

But basically, what i saw with bbig is your say: it's not patent-based you're. Looking at a stock and saying like pbig, you shorted just before broke down like you could spot like the yeah. The lungs are the long. The long the long momentum is getting weaker.

This is not sustainable and you hit the perfect moment before it broke down, so you saw the breakdown before it happened, because you've studied so many hours of charts. You've seen them break down before so you know how to break down right, yeah and the level two. The level two is uh, a big part of that you know seeing how how how it's moving and um a lot. You can get a lot from the level two based upon how the the speed of the entries and dude, but you have to trust.

You know and - and you know, there's some times when when when i i don't trust it and i get out of it. You know there were times on the poker table when i would fold pocket aces after the flop and i should have had the bigger hand. But i didn't trust that i did and if somebody put me all in i had to fold, and so that's the mentality that i have with trading is i if i don't feel 100 comfortable fold it you know but get out of it. Isn't it really fascinating that often the level 2 displays numbers right, displays information? It's got the bids and it's got the asks, but isn't it interesting that it's often not the information that it displays, but how far up, but how fast that information is displaying how fast? It's turning how fast it's moving it's the pace of the information rather than the information.

Does that make sense. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, no doubt, but it you, you will never p. You will never understand that until you've watched the level two yeah for hours and hours um and that's, but that's what that's.

What beginning traders don't understand? Is they wan na that you know and the market's very very um crafty it'll? Let you think you know what you're doing yeah and then it'll it'll, humble you real fast. I feel like i feel like what you guys just talked about like. If people listen, you don't have to spend those hours like. I heard that just now and i'm not really trading, but i remember paying attention to level two steven and what you just said.

That sounds like a jewel that it isn't the numbers but the speed in which they're changing and that's why. This is why i think it is so important to listen to our podcast, because those little tools are going to save you hours and hours of waste of time. But yes, then you have to leave our podcast and go watch it for yourself. But that makes me think, oh i'm going to look for sure on that from a different perspective because of what you just said, and just oh yeah and um, and on that note, when you what you just said kim is you know listening um and that's why It's so important to listen to what podcasts and videos but um.

You should have a pen and a pad, and you should be writing down. You know key points to everything, you're, listening and you're watching and then the next video. If, if the next person is talking about the same thing in the other, video and and you'll start to see that there's there's there's information out there, that's consistent in everyone's uh trading style. You might want to pay attention to that.

You know um for sure and unfortunately, a lot of people. They just watch videos they just you know same thing like when you were in college in the class. You know you just sat there and listened to the professor. You know, and then the professor gave you a study guide and then you went and tried to study you know.

But if, when you were in the class, if you were taking notes - and you reviewed your notes, you didn't even need that study guide. But like the thing is, though, dude there's there's an absolute reason why the challenges won yeah and there's a reason. Why likes the steady trade team it's a year right? The reason is because, like it'll take you a year to learn the basics right and dude like what people don't realize is yeah. You can watch videos and webinars and you'll get the basics, which is what that that's the job right to give you the basics.

But what i found is that you can only be taught so much and then you walk down that long, dark road of total grind on your own and that's how you get profitable. You grind the last part on your own. You can't be taught everything and i think that's what you you've said and that's what i know um and that's why a lot of people feel because it's not spoon fed it's it's it's initiative, it's it's inquisitive and and it's self-drive yeah and i think a lot Of a lot of people um, they they think it's easier than it is that everyone does yeah. You know they.

They think that um - because i mean quite honestly, i'm 42 years old, but the majority of people making millions of dollars in the stock market that i know are in their 20s. You know and then in their their early 30s and i'm like you know it can't be that hard at 20 year olds. You know, and but it is it's very difficult. Pretty smart 20 year olds, though yeah like these guys are pretty pretty.

But at the same time, at the same time, it's only a handful of them yeah, it's not money, it's not hundreds of 20 years. No, it's not! No! It's not there's a handful of them that get it and - and i think that's the hardest thing for for new traders to understand. Is you better pack a lunch and you better get ready to go through some ups and downs and hit some dark spots places? And i mean there were a lot of times when the question came up that i don't know if this is for me, but at the same time i loved it because it was so challenging yeah it was it was it was. There was nobody to pat you on the back.

There was nobody to give you a pep talk. It was you wanted to be, however, motivated you wanted to be yeah, you don't have to listen to the to the steady trade podcast. You don't have to watch webinars. You don't have to to sign up for everyone's uh chat room.

You don't have to do those things, but your fire is gon na go out real, quick, yeah um and you know, and and you know i hated that you had to struggle stephen, but your struggles. No more than you brother, no more than you, yeah and and kim. I know i know you're new um. What this is probably your.

Second year, uh trading um, you know, i know quite a lot of movies. You have to watch rocky iii and all those you know so you know it's all those those hours of of of seeking out motivation that keeps you again yeah. I promise you this. Nobody has ever called me on the phone or sent me a tweet asking about how my trading is going.

Nobody said yeah. I just wanted to check on your trading yeah. I hope you're, okay, yeah! No, no! I'm proud of you! Well i'll! Save you! Now! I'm proud of you clutch, i'm inspired by your determination, i'm inspired by your you know, pragmatism, and it just feels like you set yourself up for success in so many ways. The way you approach this, you really approached it from such a mature.

You know perspective. It's really impressive, really something stephen yeah, it's the truth, congrats you should be really proud of yourself. Can i please be the first one to tell you as well? Is that the hard part's over now like the worst, is over dude like if you made it to this point? It shouldn't ever get worse than this, because in the back of your head, if you ever do take big losses or small losses or losses or red months or small red months, you always know that a you've given back money that you made in the market. So you didn't grind a really hard job to make it and b.

You can't make it back no matter what like, if you take a loss, you always know i can make it back and and it's not like you're a mug who's losing money that you should be spending on groceries and you're, losing your job like you're, not losing Money that you made in your job and you're like when's, this gambling addict gon na quit. It's not like that anymore. If you lose now, you just gave back some of what you made and, and that makes it tremendously uh much more easier, much more easy um in the future, so the hard part's over well done. You made it you graduated and dude.

I know about 30 traders who made it, and i know about three thousand, who didn't so great job of being on time clutch. So now let me ask you guys: uh stephen from the trader's perspectives and kim from you know, just the the mind and the emotional and um even you're a traitor. So um what advice? Do you give um? Because i mean quite honestly once i i got over pdt um, it was almost like. I was new to trading again um in the mindset and so i'm having to figure out okay.

Now you have free reign of of trading. How are you going to attack it? Um yeah, i mean my advice: uh would be um to try and not change too much all at once, because what you have now is a real big winning formula like back to back 10k months uh, you have you've defined a pretty solid edge. There i mean i mean as long as you're, not having too many drawdowns that are too significant. But if you haven't tend to get back to back 10k a month and you've grown a small account, it sounds like you've really got a good edge in what you're doing so.

I wouldn't change much and if you do change it, i'd change it very slowly. Um and and just um and just watch your size, that's all because you just don't want a bad loss. That's going to a knock your confidence and um and b put your background at pdt, because it'll be demoralizing like just for me. I would like size down and grind that five six seven k cushion so you can take a 3k loss worst case and you're still over pdt right.

You just don't want to go backwards now, yeah. I think my advice would be to get more support, because i think it is really hard to do this, but in that kind of uh silo. So i i would say you know, create a relationship or two where you can have that sense of fellowship at the level that you now are at and perhaps somebody who's a little bit ahead. Uh on that journey so that they can kind of, encourage you and pull you forward.

Steven johnson but i'll be having them taking big losses and max losses and stuff i'll be like just hold it. It'll be okay. Well, the key here is like you need to have somebody who calls you forth for you to own and step into that next level, like you've gone through that glass ceiling. So now you have to find out.

Where is your discomfort with the next goal that you set for yourself and how do you make sure you manage your risk but also get the encouragement and that sense of you know next year you're up leveling and i think, when you're up leveling, you do need Support and you do need encouragement and you do need to celebrate the wins. You really do it's easy to focus on what you could do better, but you have to stop and pause and really acknowledge the success. You've had not to get cocky but to be encouraged and kind of nourished to go to the next level. Yeah we, i kind of celebrated it the other night.

I took the wife out to olive garden for the never-ending possible so uh, so that was that was quite a celebration. That's too much just your lap's going with fancy rats right now, clutch you're laughing! I do. I still haven't even been to a fantasy restaurant. I'm like i'm too scared.

You get too scared to spend the money, because you don't know you get scared to like have this separation with money, it's weird but uh yeah you do and, and that was the whole deal like um. When i i was opening the computer today - and i said you know if i, if you want to stay over pdt, i pretty i'm only over it by like 500 bucks. So i said i'm pretty much back to where i started in the beginning trading, with a 500 account and so um. You know um, but you can't have that that mindset.

You know, like you, said stephen. You just have to to do what's gotten me here, and you know trust that that it's gon na get me uh get me a cushion so that way i can continue to trade like like. I like i want to, and i know how um but yeah. Now you guys uh big, shout out to you guys on on the podcast um.

You know, i i listen to you guys, regularly, um and um. You know you guys have been a big part of the success. No one does anything alone, and so you know all you guys, i mean and and i'm the kind of guy, that i'll bug anyone for information. You know so i'll shoot emails, i'll shoot, tweets, i'll shoot, really i'll tag.

Somebody in a tweet, that's so smart clutch. So smart, and so you know um, don't the worst thing that can happen. Is they don't respond or they tell them? That's right, so so i've bugged, so many people along this journey and you know um and i'm very appreciative of everyone's. You know uh help, even though, like you guys is the first time i've ever met.

You guys, but you guys had no idea, that you were such an inspirational part of my journey um so keep doing what you're doing, because um there are those people out there that you know um, that's not that's all they got. You know, that's all they have, and you know i'm i'm very fortunate that i'm very motivated you know i know tim bowen. He believes that motivation is um. You know uh um from within.

You know like you're, not born with it and but um. You know i. I think um. I think that i'm very fortunate that i've seen a lot of things that have allowed me to become motivated.

You know, and i'm smart enough to know you know i don't necessarily have to go down that path. I can just learn from somebody else's path and say you know, i don't want to go down that road, that's right, and so, like i said steve, you know i hate that she had to struggle, but a lot of your struggles helped help me avoid certain struggles That i'm sure i would have had - and so you know i appreciate it - it's good to pass it on, but dude just remember, you're still in the early stages as well. I hope you have another five figure month. I hope you have a double it and have a 20k a month, but just don't get too disheartened, if, if you make 2 000 or 3 000 or do you know what i mean like? Oh yeah, the market runs in cycles.

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