So how do you become a successful luxury, second or third home market agent to help you guys do that? That really is the question we want to unpack today with my guest, curt and tim harland from berkshire hathaway jackson, hall properties. Fellas. Thank you for meeting me in my home. Oh wait.

I'm in your hometown in jackson, hole what's up guys! Things are good! I just keep looking out to the view you have here today, and it is an amazing day out here today we had a great day yesterday - very thankful. Yes, yes, we did well. Thank you guys for that. So for the people that are listening on audio, only, we are in jackson, hole wyoming their hometown, where uh kurt owns berkshire, hathaway jackson, hall properties, tim, you joined in 2015, 2015.

yeah. So so what i want to really focus on today, guys is a lot of people are listening this and, of course, you know, everybody wants to sell a higher end price point right. I don't care, if you're in the wonderful gal that i interviewed this morning, who's in iowa, whoever sales price is like 225. for her.

If she gets a five and six and seven thousand dollar houses, that's the high end, that's luxury right! Everybody wants to be in that game, so i want to focus today on like not only the second home market, what you have to do right, starting a brother. You know brothers, business together in the fun dynamics of that, as i've certainly witnessed on the golf course. Yesterday, no one got tackled, but i think they were close um but also like how do you make it all work and - and you know, you're new - to coaching right so starting september of last year, right and and like what are some of the lessons. You're learning and what are your coach? You know working with you guys on, so we want to unpack all of that.

It's a lot of unpacking to do so for contacts for the person listening right now um last year they did 16 transactions and before you say, wow 16 transactions. Well, there are sales prices, 3 million bucks and really, you know safe to say you were really just beginning to accelerate in yes and you got your hands on a lot of stuff and i'm going to unpack all of that in a minute but year to date They are already at 17 transactions, 12, 12, closed, 34 million dollars and for context for the listeners. There's 580 licensed agents here in the valley and they'll do 600 single-family residence transactions on an annual basis. So is that one per agent, one per agent, so you better choose wisely right.

You better make sure it's a big one right, that's a good deal, but that that reminds me of a lot of luxury marketplaces that we work in so um. So fellas i'm going to give them context and we're diving right. In so kurt i wrote down. Homebuilder turned referral agent because a buddy said you know you might want to start getting some commissions on these things.

Uh turn broker owner, but you're also an insane ski instructor. Well, i don't think insane's the right word tom. I think i'm a very valuable resource on the mountain people, not unlike real estate. I was thinking, maybe just because i know you and you're kind of insane.

So maybe that's just how the word got popped in there and then tim or your brother athlete turned alcohol sales and distribution right, but also a firefighter of 20 years. Thank you so much for all your service and a realtor since 2015.. So so, let's just talk about curt, give a little your backstory like. Why did you go into real estate and then why did you ultimately start a brokerage and then we'll bring your brother in to figure the whole thing out and then we'll get into all the luxury stuff? It's a lot.

This is a short version of a very long story, so as a ski instructor here in jackson hole, i met some clients out of new york, great friends. They were upgrading from a small town townhouse to a larger home here on the west bank and he basically told me to run the numbers as a referral agent. So i did. I became a referral agent for a short period of time and then went out and be worked started working for a brokerage on my own sure.

I did it part time. I was a home builder for 20 plus years that has lent itself very well into real estate, especially in this market, where there's a lot of remodeling scraping rebuilding things like that still teach skiing on a limited basis. I love sharing this environment, the mountain environment, the jacksonville community, with people that have been here for 20 years or first timers. It's a great community to be involved with love it so and then how did you or why did you buy the brokerage because that seems like you know, homebuilder understands like he owns his own business, you're entrepreneurial yeah and then you buy a real estate brokerage and You know what they say about real estate brokerages.

How do you make a small fortune in real estate? You start with a big one and you buy a real estate office. It sounds like i'm just kidding, but i'm not kidding. It is like horses, like horses, it's like owning a ski resort. It's like owning a ski resort.

Well, you know. Maybe we all own a ski resort one day, so why did you buy the brokerage? Well, i had been. I had been working with with a small independent brokerage and the two owners offered me an ownership position. The timing was really good on it.

I had just obliterated my knee in a skiing accident getting up and down scaffolding and hanging off 30 feet screwing on fascia. Wasn't for me anymore, i had two in the middle of winter, two small kids, my my youngest had just turned one, and it was it was. The timing was just right and i really enjoyed real estate. I, and i was at a point where i was ready to transition out of construction, moved more full-time into real estate, and one of the owners offered me an ownership stake, and it was serendipity is what it was.

I was really really fortunate, yeah, that's great and then timmy how about yourself. I mean i mentioned alcohol sales and you know to go from alcohol to real estate. Some would argue you stay with alcohol in real estate. They go bed bed and boudoirs and booze right.

There um, no, i actually after college, i went down to the bay area yeah in l.a and was doing litigation consulting and disputes resolution for client and council right. So that could be slightly helpful in negotiations in real estate, hello, right and then came out to jackson. Uh, after a two-month motorcycle trip with my girlfriend on the back and and one night, we stayed in the hotel. The rest we traveled through the the coast and the banff jasper lake, louise and yeah, came down to jackson, side unseen and immediately my roots just planted here and uh, but then worked for a brewery where, for almost 20 years, doing sales and marketing and then worked With a couple distilleries and yeah, and then the big thing was when kurt came out was we were building our house and we were fortunate enough to get a little bit of land and we got into a bit of a pickle with our contractors one well.

They split and then i had one that left and moved back to rhode island, so we were left in the lurch. Not so much a pickle is abandonment, yeah yeah, and so i called big brother, curt up and said man. I'm i'm really hurt and i need a lot of help and two weeks he came out and we started finishing off the house and which took a few months and you know maybe a few years off our lives. But yes, it was a phenomenal uh testament to the trust and love that we have between each other yeah and i'm assuming that's always been there.

I mean you're five years apart and that could be a world apart between siblings, yes, but watching you guys on the golf course yesterday would safe to say you guys are pretty close. We are and from the get-go from when tim was smaller. I coached his baseball team. You know watched all of his football games, rode the bus from college back to eugene to watch his football games.

Just i mean we've been really really close. Yeah taught me the vw thing outside yes taught me how to drive that yes taught me the wayward ways of being able to be social with liquid environment, which might have been an influence of why i got into beer and and liquor sales yeah. I don't know that was a big influence on me, so why did you go into real estate? Why did i go into real estate? Well again, you know how, like i needed, help on my house. Yeah kurt's been bugging me for years to get my license to be a part of that and we can create something as brotherhood and i'm like yeah i resisted and i existed and then finally you just said: i need help yeah that was it yeah.

So it's 2015 right. You get licensed right. You now own the berkshire hathaway franchise. At this correct.

We we we affiliated from an independent in may of 15. and for context again. We mentioned 580 agents in the valley. You've got 17 agents.

Does that include the two of you, or is that okay, so 17 agents in this office by the way in case you're wondering there is a dog now walking around? What's up vader vader he's just like where's, my mom? Why, who are these strange people in this house all right, so vader enjoy the podcast, but but one of the one of the things that i think is super important for people to get is, i think, brand and trust in a marketplace like this matters even more So from my clients, in new york city and from toronto, or from miami or from san francisco or l.a, and for the people that are out there watching that are from those parts of town just understand like there's just so many more people in those towns. When i, you know, get off the airport and take the long road right through town, i still see the lie. That's up there. It says jackson hole welcome to jackson, 9 200 people right, i'm like there really should be a 2 in front of that.

I think from the 1980 census or something right 60. Maybe i don't know, but this is a small town. Yes, trust relationships, just trust, that's the game. So what do you guys think you've done to establish so much goodwill and trust in the market i mean? Is it because you're, a home builder, because you're still a firefighter and thank you for the coin, which will you know if you're watching the video we'll talk about this later like? How did you guys establish this? If you had to redo it again? What would you do to establish so much trust in the marketplace? For me, it's connection to community, i mean i, i was the chairman of the board of the jacksonville chamber of commerce again with the firefighting with all these different non-profits that are in the valley being associated with and being a part of um kurt does a lot Of work with special olympics and other children's programs, i mean the connection to community is huge.

Like you said, small town, you can't be a jerk and make it very far in this in in this town per se, and so just that connectivity with the people. Here i mean it's: the power of place you look outside and the place is absolutely magnus and it's in its beauty yeah. But what really makes this town hum are the people and the quality of people that are here. It's it's not easy.

It's negative. 27 negative. 30, in the winter time you hear that tristan yeah, you got to be hearty right. You got to kind of want it yeah, so you got to have a little bit thicker skin.

You got to have a little bit more resilience as it were to be able to be here and - and i think that shows in character, yeah kurt. What do you think? How do you create if you had to restart and do it all over again? How do you create so much trust? Well, you know, i would do it the same way. I think i i've been really blessed that i have been able to get to where i am in the industry. You know, and in same as i did in construction same as i do in ski instructing same as i did in every other aspect of my life.

Just treat people fairly get to know them build those relationships get to know what makes them tick at every level. At first-time buyers at fifth home buyers just treat them yeah, as you would want to be treated and be that person and share that with them. The knowledge that you have like my construction experience, played huge into real estate, big time. That develops a huge amount of trust is where you're you're, not just looking for the sale you're.

Looking for the right sale, yeah you're looking to get the the person into the right place and get them the ability to enjoy this community that we love at the same level. It's it's experiential. Do you think that translates to you know uh iowa city, like you know, small town, usa, do you think it translates to new york city? Do you think it translates to munich germany like? Is it? Is it the same? I mean at the end of the day. Aren't we really supposed to be like the mayors of our town? Yes right, the person that can open the doors, who has the contacts who has the relationships, thoughts, yeah? No, that is exactly what uh within our job scope, is what we should be doing and what we are doing, and, whether you're a big city or a small city.

It's about that individual! It's about caring for that person's needs. Some people are just transactional period right. I want to do 1000 transactions, and i want to get this goodbye see out. You know spit you out.

The people that we personally have had transactions with have become insanely, close friends, yeah insane, close friends that we rely upon and that they reply upon us continually. Once the transaction is completed, we're still going to dinner, we're still fixing their you know the vent on on their dryer, we're doing all kinds of things for them as a friend, not because we're making a buck right, you know yeah. I think there there's something to then you know you guys being newer to our ecosystem right. The values that you're expressing are what i hear from people every day that and they could be doing a thousand transactions with a team of 40, but but they decided that they were going to be relationship first, not transaction, first sure, and i'm not.

I have a lot of clients that, like they're, very transaction focused and they make a lot of money, so i'm not dogging them, but all i do is, i then go back and look at their repeat referral business and it man it is. It is as obvious as this coin, in my hand, like you know, if you are relationship first, you've got a ton of trust in the marketplace. You do a ton of referrals and they do everything else for marketing and the ones that are transaction-oriented are just chasing more transactions and sure, and both are right. Yeah right for the individual, but i think for small town like the transaction mindset, could really get you in trouble yeah.

So let's talk about marketing because that's probably the actually i want to. I want to back up first new agent just getting started new agent, big brother legend, but you're a legend right, you're like he's way, got way more charisma and craziness than you do. I'm not taking anything away from you kurt, but he's he's he's twice as long he's. A little chatty yeah he's a little chatty.

What was it like getting started? What was your first year like my first year, was i like the last one? I should be asking you this question. You know honestly tom, i was uh, you know a vice president of a distillery and doing sales and marketing in that regard. So i was a bit of a secret agent sure i was coming in and was doing referrals. I would get referrals and hand them off to kurt um and doing that so coming in and having a mentor having someone to emulate.

Having someone, you can interrupt him any time. Man do it. This is a podcast. Let's go i'm waiting for something good.

No, but having like i said, the ultimate trust is is is brother to brother and having that and the ability to be like hey, you know tim. I need help well, i'm gon na come in and how was your website when i first started there wasn't one? How was this, how was that - and there just was nothing - it was just doing real estate in the old way yeah. So you know the help that he needed. I was happy to provide um as long as support, whether that be moral or business or whatever.

You know, i say that kurt makes it rain and i compile the fields right and that's a good partnership. Yeah, that's and that's kind of where it's where we started at yeah, and then you know, once i came out of the closet, so to speak, was to be able to use my my community connections be able to talk to people and make it more of a Contact sport and say: hey, you know what this is, what we're doing my brother and i are starting something really special come be a part of it. So so it's interesting like i ask a lot of uh veteran agents. 35.

40 years. Can you remember when you first got started or someone that's, you know like what the guy was just mentioning. You was on my podcast, like 177 transactions in two and a half years right, bethany, like huge shout out to her um. I was like what did you say to everyone you knew in town that you were suddenly a real estate agent.

What were you saying? You know the first few times you kind of you'd almost roll your eyes because, like oh another, one yeah right you're, like hey, you know, there's 580 of you in town right, that's fantastic, but no and then i started really uh drinking kurt's kool-aid of culture. Right of look we're going to do this differently, it's not going to be wham bam later sam, it's going to be! These are people that we're going to work with very closely on on a very close basis and be able to do right by them and service them appropriately and it's you know what i'll lose a deal before. I lose a friend yeah culture, yeah where'd, that come from uh childhood, probably my dad, my parents, you know my mom they're all about friendships and relationships, and they had no time for people that that weren't forthright and honest with them, and they instilled that in us And they really i mean it's where you have it, you know it's something you can learn, but it's really difficult, but if you're, if it's ingrained in you from childhood, it makes a huge difference. Just being fair and honest with people is really i mean it's the baseline for any business model right, because you know when people say: oh, it's just business.

I call bs on that, especially in real estate, because real estate is about people yeah, it's not about anything. Other than people i mean commercial different, you know investment stuff, maybe but in this market, where people are trying to get the lifestyle they're here for different reasons, they want to live here, but it's also about them. It's about their dream and that's not business. That is totally about relationships totally personal yeah, it's absolutely personal um, so i'm gon na go a different direction.

Your brother said you didn't have a website in 2015.. Now you do know in 2015, websites were available. We we had a website. It was just terrible.

Okay. I had a feeling - i am the least techie person in real estate. No i've met people that, like you, have an iphone. I i met a few.

I'm like is that a blackberry like the smithsonian called they want it back. I mean a personal website. Yes, wow there might not have been, there might not have been one of those okay. So so, but i got ta say just i mean yeah, i understand all the tech stuff and i and i of course, and it's a really important component to our business.

My business has always been based on relationships. Yes, i haven't done that much advertising at per for me personally, because all of my business is word of mouth much like my construction business. I never had to have an ad for my construction business. It was always word of mouth.

We were always busy. We always had projects lined up because of that mantra of it. It's not just business. It's about people and homes are about people, whether you're, building them or selling them to people yep.

So so i agree with you and yet you could argue that today, with google zillow realtor, 500 000 other you know sites and not 500 000, but so many other sites that are out there, basically trying to arbitrage the industry. So so i'm going to return to you. Well both of you guys. What have you guys done to? I mean look at 580 agents in the market 600 transactions right and you guys are doing four you're at four percent of the market right now, which means you'll, probably finish it eight to ten percent of the market, like that's bonkers right.

So how like? What are you guys doing to defend your position online? Because you know in alcohol sales, like you better, be good online yeah or you don't exist or you don't exist and you need to support it and right now, i'd say now that we're a part of this phenomenal tom ferry ecosystem um and our coach mark president 50 off next month, for that automatically perfect, uh and mark has really done a great job with me personally yeah, you know, that's why my business right now is 5x. You know kurtz at 1x, maybe 2x on his side, but no truly, no competition. Here being a part of that, being a part of the ecosystem is huge with regards to referrals and right now you know i was talking with mark the other day he's like look tim right now. You haven't even hit your one year mark and right.

It's about learning, not earning those go great together, and they have obviously but we've had amazing network referrals through the ecosystem and being able to have group calls um through your system, which is above and beyond just the elite. Weekly call mark's put together his group, and so we just had a nice talk with them yesterday from the golf course we're doing a luxury market every third friday, so you have the connectivity and the ability to grow organically, but also just through connectivity right in that. So, for me, that's big. Secondly, is following the just the instructions of doing what you need to do.

It's a contact sport go hit. Them hit them hard in the different facets that that you're showing us how to do yeah. So so i know we, you know we were chatting about this yesterday and like in my world. That just means i added another channel of revenue right, so i've got a new network of people, i'm i'm connecting with them, i'm bringing them value, sending them referrals, they're, sending me referrals, it's another pillar of business right.

It's just smart business um talk about some of the blocking and tackling like what like i want for both you guys like and no bs right because, like i saw how you guys operated yesterday, it's very it's very fun. It's very lively, but i know you guys work your faces off too so, like what's a typical day, look like for you and then what's a typical day like for you typical day in real estate, typically in real estate, i was gon na say i walked my Dog i shot you beautiful, photo usually start my day off waking up around five or six and just get my mental attitude, ready, yeah gratitude being able to walk around with my dog and get and get the just get the mind right. You know, maybe not after a lot of sleep, maybe there is some sleep but and then be able to get into the office and start running the mls. Looking at the hot sheet doing things that i want to be able to do, and then i have a 9 to 10 a.m, kind of a prospecting, and maybe it's not prospecting per se, but it's just connecting with people that i need to connect with that's prospects.

Right, i know, but you know what it's called. I call it appointment setting time. Oh appointment, setting time right like what am i i'm not prospecting prospects. What dirty old guys near rivers did to like try and find gold.

You know where the gold is almost sounds. Like a teacher, say it's um, thomas, it's appointment setting time it's a premise is that after nap time you were hoping for some of that. Yes, yes, so so nine to ten you're on the phones, texting emailing whatever it is. Yes right, do you do all of that, or am i i'm trying to do it all man, but it's it's drinking from a fire hose right now, with all the things that are out there that that are coming at us.

So you know: do this, do xyz again trying to run plays at work is really what i'm. What i'm going at and mine is my social and my business network that i'm really trying to dig deep into so up early. Get your mindset right, it's music to my ears, any time you hear great people say because let me say this: every great agent says the same thing right i get in. I check the daily hot sheets sure i have to know what the market is doing.

So i'm prepared to go talk to people when they say on the market. Right like you, have to give them real time data. So you do that. Then you get on the phone for an hour and then what happens then.

For me it's appointments or whatever appointments. Taking care of clients doing showings being more knowledgeable on wednesdays, we always there's always open houses, so familiarizing myself with the market on wednesdays um. You know just hustling, just really just hustling and getting getting things done. That need to get done and there's always something, and if, if i have nothing to do then well, there's something wrong.

Second, is i'll go back to my database and i will just start going okay. What what am i missing? Where am i going? I do have kurt doesn't like. I have a wall of shame on my in my office and it's deals, shame wall of shame and it's deals that really should have been in our pocket that whether it was because we lost contact this is really good or because they we weren't centered top of Mind yeah or whatever the reason and people make their own decisions. They all know 400 agents, i get it yeah, but my wall of shame is that's the wall that hurts there's names on there that are close to me, yeah that i'm not gon na.

Let happen again see if we could stop the podcast right there and go it's mic drop like that's. It like everyone should have a wall of shame. Every deal that you missed. The positive too you got ta have the positive.

I can see the yang and yang here i'm not a big fan of the wall of shame. Maybe it hurts too much or maybe i realized i might have dropped the ball on. Some of those could be, could be there. You know i like positive reinforcement.

I, like the dangling carrot and yeah the big yeah stick, but everybody gets motivated by something right, so so kurt what about you typical day in the life? Well, it depends whether it's summer time or school year time, because my wife's a really amazing first grade teacher. So in the mornings, when she's in school, i wake the boys up. I get two boys 11 and 13. max and beckett.

I don't know if you'll ever watch this, but get them up, get them dressed, get them fed, get their lunches made, get them in the car, so that mom can jump in the car and they can all go to school. And then i head into the office, which is about 7 30 8 o'clock yeah, that's my time when i get my mind right, i look at the stuff for the brokerage, i'm not as diligent about prospecting as tim, i'm more brokerage management chef dealing with all that Making sure my agents have all their questions answered going through my email list sorting through. What's you know, setting up my list of of most important to do's that day, hoping i can get through the top third of it? You know that kind of deal and then a lot of answering agent questions, helping on contracts, making sure everything's going checking advertising, whether it's print or social media or whatever it is, and my day gets rolling and then because of my construction experience twice a week, i Get a call from a homeowner that wants advice on how to do this, how to do that? What happens when this light goes on? Where do you go there right? Continuing after the transaction, helping out clients is a big part of my work week. It does gobble up some time, but it's a pretty insignificant amount of time, because i've gotten really good at delegating that to subs i used to use call them up.

They answer my calls, even though everyone's slammed and contractors are years out right now. They help out because of those relationships again back to the relationship. You really do all that on a daily basis, yeah yeah. I know it looks like i'm just sitting in my office.

Well, that's good when you're a broker manager owner - it's a very i mean like. I appreciate it. It's a totally different deal right. Sales agent relationships, go hunt, go find deals, go on appointments um, i'm curious for the two of you guys.

Do you guys ever go on listing presentations together? We have. How do we haven't got? Is it? How does it work it works really? Well, because we do my feed off each other. Kurt's got the construction background. I got a sales and marketing background, and so it really works well because having both of us on both ends of the of the bookends really gives us a dynamic, forward-looking project, or at least what prospecting for those particular clients, yeah and - and i really like potential Clients to get a feel for both of us, because we both work most every single transaction as a team yeah and if they don't get me they're gon na get tim.

If they have a question that i can't answer, they go to tim. It's it's a matter of, i mean we're kind of two brothers sharing one brain yeah. You could say we should have almost a full brain almost, but they really it's a package right. So when we do a listing presentation, they need to understand both of us.

We have different idiosyncrasies, i like to text, he likes to email, yeah, you know and and so there's different ways to get a hold of us. If one person can't answer a question, the other one can we're starting to get into video tom. This is on that's on my we're going to talk marketing people. It's it's coming, it's coming, but let me okay.

So let me ask you guys this like. I know this is something you guys rarely hear and none of my high-end clients ever hear it. I want the highest possible amount for the sale of my home. Whatever number you have, i want more.

What are you guys doing today to like? Let me like, how are you listing houses? How are you trying to price houses? I should say today in this market: it's nuts it is nuts and and because appraisals are lagging so far behind right. The market, the the velocity of the market, is so unbelievable right now it makes it really tough, but there there's people putting their houses on the market for their walk-away number. Maybe they've spent their retirement. You know they've been here 20 years, they were going to retire in 10 they're going to retire now because they can cash out for more money than they ever thought possible for their home here in teton county and it's just accelerating their their next phase of their Life, which is awesome i mean the downside - is we're losing a lot of important infrastructure, workforce yeah uh, but hopefully that void can be filled um, but it is amazing at the velocity of the market yeah.

So but pricing is well and, like you said you dangle the carrot and that's what's happening in the market right now: yeah the carrots getting dangled and you think no there's no way. Someone can jump that high and get a bite of that thing right and it gets bitten and taken yeah until the next multiple bites from multiple buyers right right. So the market is actually training a lot of the consumers that too high might not be too high anymore. So it is a challenge we want to be reasonable and there are the three theories: stick it out there to where you're not going to be able to get any buyers, get it at market price and get a few people or get it at or under that Market rate, so you can then get multiple offers and speak in my love language.

That's it, but it's hard not to have multiple offers these days. Unless you are outrageously priced well and not even outrageously, there's some things on the market that have some nuances to them. Like a lot of people, don't want to do a big remodel or do a scrape or deal with construction, and i understand they want turnkey and there are some places on the market. I think that have been on the market for more than three or four months that need that special buyer with vision or with thought or is willing to take on that that brain damage of doing a full remodel or something like that.

I looked at a property. Last summer, over in john dodge - and it was like - let's just call it x million dollars and i'm like well, the land is awesome and i'm like. I walked through the house and i was like what would it cost to destroy this and start over and then it's like i mean, but but to your point i was talking to maxine and marty gallant, who you guys know really well from la jolla uh josh Ruben one of my great clients in new york city says the same thing he's all you know: high-rise manhattan, killing it and they, both on two different coasts, said the same exact thing when i said what sells and what doesn't and they're like newer than four years. Turnkey easy and beautiful: yes, everything else it's going to sell, but it's going to sell not for that crazy price.

Are you guys seeing the same thing or is it different, because the like the value of land here is so different? There is that difference, but that is what i see. Selling now is stuff that people can walk into and plunk down a chunk of change and have what they want right and be moving in. So what do you say then, to the seller that says well, look. I mean like this: the house we're in right now was, i said guys, i'm this.

I've got this great piece of property. I don't own this house, it's just renting this house, but i'm like this great piece of property. I would like to own this house just saying: do you have any good agents in jacksonville a couple right, but but the house is like it's bizarre right so, like i couldn't imagine, you won't be renting this house next year. No, i will not do that.

Oh okay, i think that was an implied relationship sales process there, but like what do you say to that seller? Who's like but look guys the market's bonkers? I've got this unbelievable piece of property yeah the house a little bit old, but like i, i need my walk away: price yeah. What do you guys say to that person? Two things what the market shows, like i'm, the numbers guy yeah right so i'll, go through where we're at with the market. What's what's out, there active what has sold in the last three months six months, although it's so quick. Now it's like every two months, i'm just kind of revamping those numbers to give us some basis, a foundation of knowledge that you can actually show to them and say: hey here's where we're at granted things are.

Things are moving up still, so maybe we can have a trajectory of add five percent, ten percent - something like that. So that's where i come at it from kirk comes at it from a more i get it. You love your house and you've had so many experiences here and it's there's a value to that yeah. However, these are the numbers, but i also explain to them: there's a very, very small demographic that will share that vision and share that love and have that that same emotional attachment to it.

But it's also, i mean the trajectory will meet as the market rises and if this price stays it'll cross somewhere, is that in two months or is that in two years i don't know these are also people in those we've got a couple clients like that. They don't have to move right, they love being here, there's no benefit to them to sell at a lower number so until that that that unicorn comes along that shares that same vision and as long as they're. Okay with that - and they don't mind that i don't need to make the trend, i don't need to accelerate the timeline on the on the transaction if they don't need to right. If they need to be at a job in san francisco in next month, then we do price adjustments.

Yes, if they don't and that's what they want - and i know this may not be a traditional thinking, but these are people that have been in the valley for 20 or 30 years. They love it here, they're very comfortable staying. They don't need to sell and go somewhere. This is for them their next phase of moving on to something yeah.

I want to help them facilitate that without them not getting that next step in with only half stepping that doesn't work for them, so that doesn't work for me yeah! It's in interesting when you think about that um by the way, the guy at the very first house on the right as you pull into the street, you met him a couple days ago, he's 78 years old he's, like i used to say, i'm going to die In this house, but if someone gave me x and let me live here until i die right - i'd sell it today for why yeah and i was like you're in the reverse mortgage business - very much sorry exactly and you notice, i did not say the address, but You guys know the exact house, but but that's an example of like when you're what, if someone's listening to this right now and their average sales price is 400 000. right. There is like when people say. Is there a difference between like everyday? You know homes for sale in calgary, alberta, canada and 5 million 10 million second home.

The answer is absolutely yes. Humans are humans, but the way people look at properties like this, i believe fundamentally, are different right. Is that safe, safe to say, but he's gon na want that experience, yeah and there's probably a buyer that would buy that house just to say great over the next 10 years, 20 years or whatever it's going to appreciate in value anyway, like not a bad deal. Let's talk about marketing, okay, you guys made a statement.

You said it yesterday, it really caught my eye like walk away price, or am i saying that the right way like what's your way? What's your walkaway number, do you guys use that in your marketing, or do you save that, like when you're just talking to people so in you know as our listings as we're getting to a price, and we explain the different reasons for that? Like tim explained above market at market below market, whatever you're looking for there's all of those people have a number in their mind. We also, then point out: if their house is a, is it a 10 or is it a one yeah, you know it tends brand new construction, everything great one. There might be some homeless people and straight dogs. So where do you rank your house on that? Well, most people rank it on the high end.

Of course you go through and you do that whole well. Does it need paint? Does it need a you know? Okay, maybe it's not an eight. Maybe it's really a seven yeah and get them to realize that their view of their property may not be the market's view of their property right. But that's where the pricing comes, so we do use it in our listing presentations when we get a seller.

That really doesn't have a grasp on the market yeah a walk-away number and if they're, if everyone's okay with it, that's fine, so i wouldn't say that would be print marketing, that'd be just more of marketing. You know viv! So that's what we're doing. I would argue against that, like i'm on this kick right now of there is so much noise in the market, especially for you guys, 580 agents, 600 transactions, there's a lot of noise, and i think a lot of people get lost in the sea of sameness. Right, like the the metaphor i always get, is it you haven't been in the grocery store in a while and your wife's like go get a bag of chips and you're like you, don't eat chips and you're, walking down the grocery trail and how many bags of Chips, do you see five five? You know stories of just layers and layers of you know this one and that one like how do you pick right put an agent's face on each of those bags.

Thank you very much. So i'm i'm of the opinion. He said it not me, but yes timmy, you got it, but, like my argument is, i think we need to be a little more outlandish is not the word, but that's what's like outspoken about like what is on the minds of consumers. What is your walk-away number right right, yeah like how about like one of my clients is now running ads and a whole bunch of people are now doing.

This is uh, want a crazy offer on your house. Like that's the headline, not not, you know just sold. Look, i did it again why you should sell now market updates. I think all that stuff is almost like automatic.

It needs to be done, but, like that crate like want a crazy offer on your house who wouldn't say yes to that yeah i mean like. I would respond with like well how crazy is crazy. I just built my house and i love it, but you know crazy right, crazy, like. But what do you guys think when i say that like do you think that works in a small town, i'm giving you an out, though i don't think i should well, i i think it would work for some people yeah.

I think it would generate some listings for the agents, i'm just wondering what the backlash on it would be. Yeah. Are we adding to the exiting of the workforce from this environment, which is a huge deal here in teton county yeah? That's a huge deal and it's near and dear to both of our hearts, because a lot of our friends can no longer afford to live here. Yeah, whether it's rent increases, whether it's not being able to buy a single family home, whether it's not being able to find a place to rent right, it's getting really really difficult for the workforce.

Housing and that for us, is really tough and in that sorry non-owners right, so you have these of rentals really close friends. 17 years renting, we told him not to look at those numbers, but 17 years renting and now he's being forced out and needs to find alta. And it's sad because he's a very integral part of the community and he's upper level workforce he's management in food service. He you know his fam he's got a family he's got a second kid on the way it's heart-wrenching yeah.

So there are some issues that as a community, we need to do and if we that would be my only concern, i think it's wildly creative and i think it would generate a lot of conversation yeah and i think it would generate some listings for our business. I'm just a little concerned, it's it's already. I mean real estate agents, get blamed for everything, yeah, no matter what it is mainly the price of real estate, which we really don't have anything to do with it's the market that drives that it's the buyers. It's the demand, certainly for this specific area, and but we get blamed for it.

So i think the backlash in a small community might outweigh the listings, yeah yeah. First of all, i'm really glad you brought that up because you say like it's: it's accelerated. I i was hearing that 12 years ago, when i started coming to the valley, like people are like like: where do you live they're like over the hill yeah? They got to go to idaho, to find decent housing and then drive an hour back and forth every day and now there's traffic in town, weird right what the heck is going on. I mean like bumper, not just traffic, no i'm bumper to bumper contacts.

People, like i mean you know, leave leave. You know town square at 5, 30 four years ago, you're here in like 10 minutes right leave now and you're like 45 minutes yeah, like that's traffic, that's kind of nuts, i did get an e-bike for that reason. To go from wilson to town right, taking the bike paths and it is kind of smart. It's.

It is satisfying to be going by cars while you're on your, but i did that down in l.a in san francisco too, on my motorcycle right. So you know yeah context, but it's also changing i mean the infrastructure of jackson in particular, is changing. You know, we've got five cranes in town building we're going up instead of going out because we can't go out. Only three percent of the land is even developable.

Yeah and tejan county, so it's a matter of you know, that's another difficult thing in a small community is change. Yeah change is really really difficult and and the infrastructure needs to be upgraded, you know, do we add another lane? Do we add another two lanes? Do we add more stop? I mean that can be really tough for people that have been here, 20, 30, 40 years for sure, mm-hmm for sure or all families in decades. Keeping that same small town feel everyone thinks it's going to disappear. I don't think so.

I think the people that want to be in jackson in the outlying areas - they're heartier - you know it is cold. Here, it's not easy to get to yeah. You might have to shovel your own walkway yeah, there's not service people to do all of those things that you might have at major metro areas. You just have to be a little tougher.

You got to put a hat on you got to put gloves on. You got to remember to have an extra coat in the car if it gets wind. I mean just little things like that: yeah, it's a heartier community and the people that want to be here, and i think it's up to us. Those of us that are here already is to educate the new people that are coming in yeah.

You know, educate them, that it's kind of a chopwood carry water community and it has to be because of the harsh elements yeah and get involved in the community. Okay, so everyone listening right now like like it's week if we would have started with that, we should like we've literally so you know we're i'm not editing a podcast but like that that right there. That moment, like that's the that's on instagram like for sure, because like that's it, if you don't get that you don't get this place right, okay, so let's talk about what what does work? What kind of wrap with with this question, what does work in terms of marketing? What are you, what are you guys trying? What has worked? What has not worked? Do you email people like an email newsletter? Do you do direct mail? There's no billboards in town right like that, would be silly, but your office sits in a very premium spot. I bet there's a lot of walk into a lot of walk-in traffic right, so so what does work in marketing that you would share with everybody else? Listening most of the people that want to be here want to be here for the lifestyle right, we don't really need.

I mean for the area, anyone that walks in our door or that inquires pretty much knows the area. There's not many done online research and yeah, and that's the great thing about being online is they've done 99 of their research. They're laser focused on what they want and what's available. It makes it really easy to then bring the personal aspect.

Yeah show them the different communities. They may not have a geographical understanding of the valley. Let them understand the difference between town and teton village and the west bank and north of town and just those little nuances and go from there, and it's really. I think the lifestyle is what people want to be here, for whether you know whatever they're into there's something that's drawn them here, sure and and so that for me, it makes it really easy to just communicate with them and find out what their needs are.

And then funnel them into what works for them. So i would, i would argue, not against you, but i would argue that, like the sales funnel the the life like, i might say this best like the time it takes from there hey. I just did it the four seasons. I really like this place.

Honey. Let's go look at a house. Let's go call a real estate agent. Hey.

We saw that berkshire hathaway, let's go walk. We just had a you know: fish sandwich down the street hey. What's up guys so we're thinking about how many years before they actually buy a house forget forget the last 16 months because it accelerated everything it can be anywhere from two months: yeah i've had people walk in the door and close a transaction within two months because They they had the ability to do that and they knew what they wanted to five years yeah and the p and i'll tell you 16 months ago, the people that had been looking for those two or three years either jumped yeah immediately or got left in the Dust because they were looking at a million and a half two million dollar properties and those for what they needed. Three five yeah yeah - and that's not not that.

I know this from personal experience, but but we've seen that a lot. Thank you thanks. Recent clients is that it's not just someone coming in. I just stated the four seasons, and here i need property there is that trust me there is, but four of our recent sales have been people that have either lived here been here, a certain amount of time.

They moved away from the valley and they went and did something else in life and they realized i got to get back there. This is a place i need to be where my kids need to grow up or once my kids are gone. Yeah, where i need to be yeah, and so we've had a number of clients that have recently come back to the valley. Even in this you know crazy pricing, that's how valuable it is for them to be able to have lifestyle.

Yeah they're they've wrapped their head around. We could have got it for a million or two million different. You know two years ago and we didn't pull the trigger and we're paying the price now, but we're doing it because we don't see it backsliding exactly. You know.

So back on marketing, like you guys, got a database of customers right. Are you? Do you send regular emails? If i was on your list, what actually like like in in the valley like, if you sell a property, do you send out a just sold card? Do you guys finish the year and say we were able to successfully help 16 people buy and sell in 2020 during a pandemic? Do you do any of that stuff or does it matter or is it on your roadmap like it's on the roadmap for sure we were client right, so i'm going like old school tom, ferry, stuff and kurt's. Looking at me like what the hell are you talking about right, like we said, we're very irregular? Yes in general, yes, i know. I knew that when we started the interview with regards to marketing, no, it's very regular, very sporadic, but again you know we're being within the ecosystem.

Now we're on like step two of the ten step process of being able to manage our clientele. You know what what was the funnel. I didn't know what that was five years ago and now i do and i understand where they people belong in the funnel and now even i'm doing an onboarding call later today, yeah to be able to get marketing and have some of these things automated right, um. So we are on that, do we have a regular marketing, no not at all, but we are in the process of doing that, and so i challenge you, you know to be here next year.

Do the same thing and see where we're at a year from now done it's going to be a different scene, because this market's changing so fast and things are moving at such a rapid pace and and we certainly need to get our wheels moving and get into. Second and third gear to be able to to captivate that. Well, i get first of all, i'm just saying i guarantee if mark was here, he would say, they've done this and this yeah big shout out to coach mark this and this and this and this and it's what we always miss like um, my stepmom, who is Here with me for a couple days right so she's been like a hero of my like entire life. Since i met her at six right and she would say everything worthwhile takes a decade every like, if you're, building a business right if you're creating relationships like it's like the power of a decade.

She just instilled that in my head. So i think, starting in september of last year, in the middle of a pandemic and how much you guys have grown and and the way you describe it like okay, we're like step one or two right. I would be super proud right. If i were you guys - and i hope you are because over the next decade, what could be is just bonkers.

It'll just come down to your ambition and desire, but i have a feeling for you: it's more about the community. What are you going to do to help the community? For me, it is, and i task and that's funny you mentioned - that we task our clients with that, especially people that have moved from out of market that haven't been here for a while. Tim is great at it. He's like okay, now you got your property here, which non-profits are you going to volunteer for see? What are you going to do to help the community out? Are you going to be on a board for right for workforce housing? Are you going to go pull fences, you know, what are you going to do to give back to the community that you're plugging play into this is up and running? It's already got everything that you want here, whether it's lifestyle outdoor adventure, whatever it is.

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